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Death Penalty in the USA (1 Viewer)

CUFAV

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Do you know that in the state of Texas 11 inmates were executed so far this year. I witnessed one of them. There are many more scheduled and not just in Texas, throughout the world.

There is a new internet forum where debates, thoughts, ideas are welcomed. It is a new site, come check us out and grow with us. Regardless of whether you are Pro death penalty or anti death penalty, come share your views.

Citizens Unite For All Victims: http://cufav.proboards58.com/index.cgi
 

rink

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Death penalty all the way! I say bring it back......it was rather stupid of Aus to abolish it. And yes, ive read/researched all the arguments for/against it. There aren't really any valid arguments against it and the ones for it are way stronger.
 

what971

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Agree with Rink. Love the Dealth penalty. I mean if other countries have it why cant we have it too??
 

Meldrum

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Never say that. Killing is killing is killing is killing. The money it costs to lock someone away in prison easily covers the spiritual, emotional and legal debt of a misappropriation of justice or the act of killing itself.

Look:

* The death penalty is killing. All killing is wrong, therefore the death penalty is wrong. According to Victor Hugo: «Que dit la loi? Tu ne tueras pas! Comment le dit-elle? En tuant!» ("What does the law say? You will not kill! How does it say it? By killing!").
* The death penalty is claimed by some to be a violation of human rights primarily Article 3 and Article 5 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Some also assert that it violates the "natural rights" laid out by 17th-century English philosopher John Locke who set out many of the foundations of American law. The American Declaration of Independence also includes the "right to life" as the first listed of the natural rights. While those against capital punishment might stick behind this as an irrevocable right, as protection from abuse is the basis of such rights, those for the practice may claim that the right was forfeit by the seriousness of the crime.
* Torture and cruelty are wrong. Some executions are botched, lethal injection in the US having the highest rate according to Amnesty International. This is often due to the fact that qualified medical professionals are prohibited from taking part. This leads to unqualified staff often taking extreme measures such as cutting into the arms of prisoners when they have been unable to locate a vein in lethal injection procedures. This undoubtedly causes those executed to suffer extended pain. Even those who die instantly suffer prolonged mental anguish leading up to the execution. Other procedures including the Electric chair, Cyanide gas and Hanging are rarely fast or effective processes and are not designed to minimize pain and suffering.
* Criminal proceedings are fallible. Many people facing the death penalty have been exonerated, sometimes only minutes before their scheduled execution. Others have been executed before evidence clearing them is discovered. While criminal trials not involving the death penalty can also involve mistakes, there is at least the opportunity for those mistakes to be corrected. This has been particularly relevant in cases where new forensic methods (such as DNA) have become available. Since 1973, 119 people in 25 USA states have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence.
* Within US court proceedings some low-income defendants end up being represented by court-appointed attorneys whose credentials are distinctly mediocre. Opponents argue that the prosecution has an unfair advantage. However, in recent years some death-penalty advocates have publicly supported the idea of using the French inquisitorial system in capital cases, instead of the adversarial proceedings currently followed in virtually all American courts today, thus addressing this issue. In addition, some states that have the death penalty - most notably New York - have established an office of "Capital Defender," either appointed by the state's governor or popularly elected (this system has since become obsolete in the particular state in question as capital punishment was declared unconstitutional in 2004, see List of individuals executed in New York).
* As there is the possibility of executing an innocent person, there is often an extended system of judicial appeals. The cost of these appeals will often exceed that of keeping a prisoner captive for his natural life. [9]
* In the US the race of the person to be executed can also affect the likelihood of the sentence they receive. Death-penalty advocates counter this by pointing out that most murders where the killer and victim are of the same race tend to be "crimes of passion" while inter-racial murders are usually "felony murders"; that is, murders which were perpetrated during the commission of some other felony (most commonly either armed robbery or forcible rape), the point being that juries are more likely to impose the death penalty in cases where the offender has killed a total stranger than in those where some deep-seated, personal revenge motive may be present. A recent study showed that just 44% of Black Americans support the death penalty. [10]
* It can encourage police misconduct. For example, the documentary film The Thin Blue Line describes a case in the late 1970s in which an innocent man, Randall Adams, was framed by the Dallas County police department for the murder of a police officer because they knew the more likely suspect, David Harris, was still a minor and thus ineligible for the death penalty.
* The death penalty is not a deterrent; in the US recent studies do not support the view that capital punishment acts as a deterrent. [11]. It is also argued that anyone who would be deterred by the death penalty would already have been deterred by life in prison, and people that are not deterred by that would not be stopped by any punishment. This argument is typically supported by claims that those states, which have implemented the death penalty, recently have not had a reduction of violent crime. A stronger variant of this argument suggests that criminals who believe they will face the death penalty are more likely to use violence or murder to avoid capture, and that therefore the death penalty might theoretically even increase the rate of violent crime. [12].
* Some people argue that the death penalty brutalises society, by sending out the message that killing people is the right thing to do in some circumstances.
* It is claimed that the death penalty psychologically harms the executioners, in some cases contributing to "Perpetration-Induced Traumatic Stress", and that even when this does not occur, killing a helpless person in a situation in which the executioner is not in danger may harm the executioner in other ways, such as decreasing his or her sense of the value of life. The suggested conclusion is that when capital punishment is not absolutely necessary to defend society, society has no right to ask executioners to risk their own mental health in such a way.
* It denies the possibility of rehabilitation. Some hold that a judicial system should have the role of educating and reforming those found guilty of crimes. If one is executed he will never have been educated and made a better person. A Christian variant of this argument woud be that no-one can place themselves beyond salvation, so society should never give up hope of rehabilitation.
* It is argued that in many countries there is greater public support for alternatives or simply public opposition to the death penalty. An International Gallup poll undertaken in 2000 found that 60% of western Europeans opposed the death penalty. In France, a TNS Sofres poll revealed that twenty years after abolition of capital punishment, 49% of respondents opposed reintroduction of the policy compared with 44% who wanted to reinstate capital punishment. In 2000, a poll in Germany found the percentage of West German’s in favor of capital punishment at just 23% the lowest level in Europe. For East Germans, polling found that just 37% of respondents were in favor of capital punishment in 2000. (Financial Times, August 22, 2003) A recent US study found that 41% of the public voted in favor of capital punishment, whilst a higher percentage of 44% voted against the death penalty when voters were offered alternative sentences. The most popular alternative to capital punishment being "life without parole plus restitution to the families of murder victims". [13]
* Capital punishment has been used politically to silence dissidents, minority religions (see Falun Gong) and activists. A major exponent of this is the People's Republic of China from which there are many reports of the death penalty being used for politically motivated ends. [14]
 

what971

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Gavrillo said:
Never say that. Killing is killing is killing is killing. The money it costs to lock someone away in prison easily covers the spiritual, emotional and legal debt of a misappropriation of justice or the act of killing itself.

Look:

* The death penalty is killing. All killing is wrong, therefore the death penalty is wrong. According to Victor Hugo: «Que dit la loi? Tu ne tueras pas! Comment le dit-elle? En tuant!» ("What does the law say? You will not kill! How does it say it? By killing!").
* The death penalty is claimed by some to be a violation of human rights primarily Article 3 and Article 5 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Some also assert that it violates the "natural rights" laid out by 17th-century English philosopher John Locke who set out many of the foundations of American law. The American Declaration of Independence also includes the "right to life" as the first listed of the natural rights. While those against capital punishment might stick behind this as an irrevocable right, as protection from abuse is the basis of such rights, those for the practice may claim that the right was forfeit by the seriousness of the crime.
* Torture and cruelty are wrong. Some executions are botched, lethal injection in the US having the highest rate according to Amnesty International. This is often due to the fact that qualified medical professionals are prohibited from taking part. This leads to unqualified staff often taking extreme measures such as cutting into the arms of prisoners when they have been unable to locate a vein in lethal injection procedures. This undoubtedly causes those executed to suffer extended pain. Even those who die instantly suffer prolonged mental anguish leading up to the execution. Other procedures including the Electric chair, Cyanide gas and Hanging are rarely fast or effective processes and are not designed to minimize pain and suffering.
* Criminal proceedings are fallible. Many people facing the death penalty have been exonerated, sometimes only minutes before their scheduled execution. Others have been executed before evidence clearing them is discovered. While criminal trials not involving the death penalty can also involve mistakes, there is at least the opportunity for those mistakes to be corrected. This has been particularly relevant in cases where new forensic methods (such as DNA) have become available. Since 1973, 119 people in 25 USA states have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence.
* Within US court proceedings some low-income defendants end up being represented by court-appointed attorneys whose credentials are distinctly mediocre. Opponents argue that the prosecution has an unfair advantage. However, in recent years some death-penalty advocates have publicly supported the idea of using the French inquisitorial system in capital cases, instead of the adversarial proceedings currently followed in virtually all American courts today, thus addressing this issue. In addition, some states that have the death penalty - most notably New York - have established an office of "Capital Defender," either appointed by the state's governor or popularly elected (this system has since become obsolete in the particular state in question as capital punishment was declared unconstitutional in 2004, see List of individuals executed in New York).
* As there is the possibility of executing an innocent person, there is often an extended system of judicial appeals. The cost of these appeals will often exceed that of keeping a prisoner captive for his natural life. [9]
* In the US the race of the person to be executed can also affect the likelihood of the sentence they receive. Death-penalty advocates counter this by pointing out that most murders where the killer and victim are of the same race tend to be "crimes of passion" while inter-racial murders are usually "felony murders"; that is, murders which were perpetrated during the commission of some other felony (most commonly either armed robbery or forcible rape), the point being that juries are more likely to impose the death penalty in cases where the offender has killed a total stranger than in those where some deep-seated, personal revenge motive may be present. A recent study showed that just 44% of Black Americans support the death penalty. [10]
* It can encourage police misconduct. For example, the documentary film The Thin Blue Line describes a case in the late 1970s in which an innocent man, Randall Adams, was framed by the Dallas County police department for the murder of a police officer because they knew the more likely suspect, David Harris, was still a minor and thus ineligible for the death penalty.
* The death penalty is not a deterrent; in the US recent studies do not support the view that capital punishment acts as a deterrent. [11]. It is also argued that anyone who would be deterred by the death penalty would already have been deterred by life in prison, and people that are not deterred by that would not be stopped by any punishment. This argument is typically supported by claims that those states, which have implemented the death penalty, recently have not had a reduction of violent crime. A stronger variant of this argument suggests that criminals who believe they will face the death penalty are more likely to use violence or murder to avoid capture, and that therefore the death penalty might theoretically even increase the rate of violent crime. [12].
* Some people argue that the death penalty brutalises society, by sending out the message that killing people is the right thing to do in some circumstances.
* It is claimed that the death penalty psychologically harms the executioners, in some cases contributing to "Perpetration-Induced Traumatic Stress", and that even when this does not occur, killing a helpless person in a situation in which the executioner is not in danger may harm the executioner in other ways, such as decreasing his or her sense of the value of life. The suggested conclusion is that when capital punishment is not absolutely necessary to defend society, society has no right to ask executioners to risk their own mental health in such a way.
* It denies the possibility of rehabilitation. Some hold that a judicial system should have the role of educating and reforming those found guilty of crimes. If one is executed he will never have been educated and made a better person. A Christian variant of this argument woud be that no-one can place themselves beyond salvation, so society should never give up hope of rehabilitation.
* It is argued that in many countries there is greater public support for alternatives or simply public opposition to the death penalty. An International Gallup poll undertaken in 2000 found that 60% of western Europeans opposed the death penalty. In France, a TNS Sofres poll revealed that twenty years after abolition of capital punishment, 49% of respondents opposed reintroduction of the policy compared with 44% who wanted to reinstate capital punishment. In 2000, a poll in Germany found the percentage of West German’s in favor of capital punishment at just 23% the lowest level in Europe. For East Germans, polling found that just 37% of respondents were in favor of capital punishment in 2000. (Financial Times, August 22, 2003) A recent US study found that 41% of the public voted in favor of capital punishment, whilst a higher percentage of 44% voted against the death penalty when voters were offered alternative sentences. The most popular alternative to capital punishment being "life without parole plus restitution to the families of murder victims". [13]
* Capital punishment has been used politically to silence dissidents, minority religions (see Falun Gong) and activists. A major exponent of this is the People's Republic of China from which there are many reports of the death penalty being used for politically motivated ends. [14]

Like I'm going to read that. PFFttt..

When criminals kill or rape, they should suffer in the same way and get the death penalty for major crimes. Not paltry 5year jail sentences, the current Australian legal system likes to give out.
 

DooGseY

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Killing someone is never justified, for no matter what reason. No one on this earth is worth any more than another person, and has no right to dictate the outcome of another persons existance. Eye for an eye doesn't work, and killing someone, basically for revenge, does not change the actions of that person. If a person kills another person it is a tradegy, but why kill more? Death sentence ensures people continue to get hurt, for no reason whatsoever.
 

what971

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DooGseY said:
Killing someone is never justified, for no matter what reason. No one on this earth is worth any more than another person, and has no right to dictate the outcome of another persons existance. Eye for an eye doesn't work, and killing someone, basically for revenge, does not change the actions of that person. If a person kills another person it is a tradegy, but why kill more? Death sentence ensures people continue to get hurt, for no reason whatsoever.
Oh dear. Hearts are bleeding all over the place. :rolleyes:
 

Captain pi

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what971 said:
Like I'm going to read that. PFFttt..
I totally agree with you. Why should we have to read almost 1500 words for something as trivial as the death penalty :rolleyes: .

Why should people suffer in the same way as to what they have themselves committed? Surely, this is a zero-gain policy. Torture is a crime; would you support the infliction of torture against those who have tortured?
 

heybraham

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what if the crim feels REAL REMORSE of his crimes? then we'd kill a good man because we can't move on, it's not fair.

honestly how many times in your life have you thought 'i shouldn't have done that.' for me, usually it's when i get really pissed and whack someone then i feel really damn bad for hurting them more than they deserve.
 

HotShot

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Bring Back The Death Penalty!

Killing Is Not Wrong, Cos We Focken All The Animals And Eat Them, Its Just Bs.

Death Penalty Creates Fear, Fear Controls Everything Reducing Crime. Death Penalty Eliminated Bad Dudes And Their Hereditaries And Its Follow Through. Gangsta Are Scared Shit And Change To Gud Ppl, And Illicit Drugs Become Legal!

Go Death Pentaly!
 

Meldrum

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Captain pi said:
I totally agree with you. Why should we have to read almost 1500 words for something as trivial as the death penalty :rolleyes: .

Why should people suffer in the same way as to what they have themselves committed? Surely, this is a zero-gain policy. Torture is a crime; would you support the infliction of torture against those who have tortured?
Yeah, just like you can fucking vote for Howard without knowing what the hell his policies are; basing your opinions on unjustified, assumed morality given by his feux-religion; all which hide his Thatcherist stance.
 

what971

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Gavrillo said:
Yeah, just like you can fucking vote for Howard without knowing what the hell his policies are; basing your opinions on unjustified, assumed morality given by his feux-religion; all which hide his Thatcherist stance.
Yeah OK.

I've gone so far extreme on the political scale I dont know whether I'm a Communist or a Fascist anymore.

Meanwhile. Go Death Penalty!
 

rink

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''* The death penalty is killing. All killing is wrong, therefore the death penalty is wrong. According to Victor Hugo: «Que dit la loi? Tu ne tueras pas! Comment le dit-elle? En tuant!» ("What does the law say? You will not kill! How does it say it? By killing!").''

First of all, ur wrong. All killing is not wrong. What if ur killing for self defence?
Second, the law does not prohibit killing. Homicide in Aus law is defined as 'an UNLAWFUL killing', not just killing. Theres a diff. And yes, something as mi9nor as a word makes all the difference eg: rape is defined as ''having sex WITHOUT CONSENT'' u get the point...



''* Torture and cruelty are wrong. Some executions are botched, lethal injection in the US having the highest rate according to Amnesty International. This is often due to the fact that qualified medical professionals are prohibited from taking part. This leads to unqualified staff often taking extreme measures such as cutting into the arms of prisoners when they have been unable to locate a vein in lethal injection procedures. This undoubtedly causes those executed to suffer extended pain. Even those who die instantly suffer prolonged mental anguish leading up to the execution. Other procedures including the Electric chair, Cyanide gas and Hanging are rarely fast or effective processes and are not designed to minimize pain and suffering.''

That's the whole point! The point IS to make them suffer.


''* Some people argue that the death penalty brutalises society, by sending out the message that killing people is the right thing to do in some circumstances.''

Ofcourse killing ppl IS the right thing to do sometimes. So what - are u saying that noone should fight a war in self-defence because 'killing people is always wrong'.



''* Criminal proceedings are fallible. Many people facing the death penalty have been exonerated, sometimes only minutes before their scheduled execution. Others have been executed before evidence clearing them is discovered. While criminal trials not involving the death penalty can also involve mistakes, there is at least the opportunity for those mistakes to be corrected. This has been particularly relevant in cases where new forensic methods (such as DNA) have become available. Since 1973, 119 people in 25 USA states have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence.''

Like u said, CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS are fallible. That means theres something wrong with the system not the penalty.




''* Within US court proceedings some low-income defendants end up being represented by court-appointed attorneys whose credentials are distinctly mediocre. Opponents argue that the prosecution has an unfair advantage. However, in recent years some death-penalty advocates have publicly supported the idea of using the French inquisitorial system in capital cases, instead of the adversarial proceedings currently followed in virtually all American courts today, thus addressing this issue. In addition, some states that have the death penalty - most notably New York - have established an office of "Capital Defender," either appointed by the state's governor or popularly elected (this system has since become obsolete in the particular state in question as capital punishment was declared unconstitutional in 2004, see List of individuals executed in New York).''

Like u said, there r ways to go around that. Plus i reckon in cases which involve the death penalty, the person should automatically be granted a good defence lawyer due to the serious nature of such proceedings.



''* The death penalty is not a deterrent; in the US recent studies do not support the view that capital punishment acts as a deterrent. [11]. It is also argued that anyone who would be deterred by the death penalty would already have been deterred by life in prison, and people that are not deterred by that would not be stopped by any punishment. This argument is typically supported by claims that those states, which have implemented the death penalty, recently have not had a reduction of violent crime. A stronger variant of this argument suggests that criminals who believe they will face the death penalty are more likely to use violence or murder to avoid capture, and that therefore the death penalty might theoretically even increase the rate of violent crime. [12].''


This is the major flaw of the arguments of those who dont support it. They always use the US as an example - a country which has huge crime rates and does not use the death penalty effectively. The death penalty may not be a deterrent in the US (coz they dont use it right, they kill em by lethal injections in private), but it certainly is a major deterrent in other countries. Trust me, ive experienced it myself. I watched a video once of a woman being shot in the head in a public arena in afghanistan for adultry and i can assure u, that definitely was a deterrent. Hell, i dont even live there and i was scared - i'd never think of committing adultry in a place like afghanistan after watching that video, not that i'd do it anyway, but especially there. Also, if u saw the reactions of the ppl in the arena, u wouldnt be saying it wasnt a deterrent. I also talked this guy who is afghan and he said that the death penalty is a major deterrent in his country. Look, the reason it isn't a deterrent in the US is coz alot of their other laws r stuffed up. If u want something like the death penalty to be effective, then u need to put in place a whole system of laws supporting the death penalty, not just the death penalty in isolation - ofcourse that's not gonna be effective.


Anyway, i cant be bothered reading the rest of ur post atm so i'll try and read em later.


Bring the death penalty back!!!
 

leetom

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Bringing some intellect and reason to the pro-firing squad side is in good order I think-

As was stated in another thread, it is a triumph of society to put to death those objects which have become societally redundant.

Of course, putting men to sacntioned death is a very serious matter and cannot be done on a whim, instead subjecting a firing squad proposal to various levels of consideration.
 

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I don't believe in the death penalty. For two reasons. 1. killing is just not on, and 2. it is the easy way out.

The person who is going to be executed should be made to suffer every single day for the rest of their life. Usually death penalties are reserved for the most serious and callous crimes, so those people do deserve to suffer for what they have done.
 

rink

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Riewe said:
I don't believe in the death penalty. For two reasons. 1. killing is just not on, and 2. it is the easy way out.

The person who is going to be executed should be made to suffer every single day for the rest of their life. Usually death penalties are reserved for the most serious and callous crimes, so those people do deserve to suffer for what they have done.

Both ur reasons have flaws.
1. Killing is on in some circumstances eg: killing in self-defence, killing in a war of self-defence, killing a murderer or sumthing to save someone elses life etc etc These are not unlawful killings. Similarly, killing someone to implement the death penalty is not unlawful.

2. Punishment is not just for retribution. It's for deterrence, for setting a standard in society etc etc And anyway, ur saying that they suffer more by being punished when alive than if they just get killed. That's not necessarily true. With death penalty, it's not only the death penalty, but the time it takes leading up to the death penalty (ie. waiting until it's ur turn) is characterised by immense psychological and emotional torture.
 
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HotShot

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Riewe said:
I don't believe in the death penalty. For two reasons. 1. killing is just not on, and 2. it is the easy way out.

The person who is going to be executed should be made to suffer every single day for the rest of their life. Usually death penalties are reserved for the most serious and callous crimes, so those people do deserve to suffer for what they have done.
I AM NOT PAYING FOR THEM TO LIVE ON! CONSUMING USEFUL RESOURCES! WTF!

KILLING IS ON! -GO THE ANIMALS!

IT IS THE EASY WAY OUT --NOT SURE, KILLING SOMEONE CAN BE MADE HARD, MAYBE BY SLICING THEIR HANDS AND GET A DOG TO LICK IT! (SIN CITY) OR MAYBE GET A SAMURAI SWORD AND RAM UP THEIR ASS --ITS NOT EASY COMING UP WITH DIFFERNT WAYS OF KILLING SOMONE. :) :rolleyes: :cool: :argue: :santa: :angry: :bat: :gridnod: :hammer: :spaceshp: :headbang: :rofl: :apig: :axedeath: :drink:
 

Waldo

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Centrelink i would say is kinda different
E.g. student recieves youth allowance so they can study and get a high earning income, student then pays taxes so it pays for another students youth allowance. cycle continues.

Singapore uses the death penalty, I think its a deterant, just look at the country.
 

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