How great would a 3-4 unit chem or bio be, and if English wasn’t mandatory (1 Viewer)

jimmysmith560

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If English wasn't compulsory I would've easily secured a 95+ ATAR.

Many students would be able to choose a subject they have more interest in instead of English, which would probably make the HSC a more enjoyable experience for them.
 

Hivaclibtibcharkwa

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If English wasn't compulsory I would've easily secured a 95+ ATAR.

Many students would be able to choose a subject they have more interest in instead of English, which would probably make the HSC a more enjoyable experience for them.
Why is English compulsory to begin with!? Essays suck. And people who went onto uni never used anything from English at all
 

B1andB2

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Why is English compulsory to begin with!? Essays suck. And people who went onto uni never used anything from English at all
It teaches you how to formulate your own ideas and articulate them. Especially when it's an unseen text, you build analytical skills.

English should remain compulsory imo but the structure of curriculum is what needs tweaking. Should be less focused on memorising essays beforehand and more emphasis on writing them on the spot. Not like that's going to happen anytime soon though.

It's only 2 units anyway.
 

jimmysmith560

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Why is English compulsory to begin with!? Essays suck. And people who went onto uni never used anything from English at all
Agreed.

In my case, doing English didn't really have an effect on the quality of my essays and reports at uni.

I believe English still remains important for some non-science/business/engineering/IT/law degrees, where analysing texts might be relevant?

It teaches you how to formulate your own ideas and articulate them. Especially when it's an unseen text, you build analytical skills.

English should remain compulsory imo but the structure of curriculum is what needs tweaking. Should be less focused on memorising essays beforehand and more emphasis on writing them on the spot. Not like that's going to happen anytime soon though.
100% agree with the benefits of doing English, but don't you think that making it compulsory would limit the potential and chances of those who are not good at English? I mean, a person could get an ATAR lower than what's required by the uni degree they wish to study due to English, despite the marks for their other subjects being high.
 

B1andB2

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100% agree with the benefits of doing English, but don't you think that making it compulsory would limit the potential and chances of those who are not good at English? I mean, a person could get an ATAR lower than what's required by the uni degree they wish to study due to English, despite the marks for their other subjects being high.
A lot of students tend to lean towards neglecting english when they don't get good marks at first and focus on their other 8 units to sort of compensate.

Consequently, their English results remain stagnant whilst their peers get even better marks which in turn demoralises them further. For comfort, what's better than nitpicking at the fact that you're forced to do it?

Writing essays take time, research and scrapping ideas and starting over. Most people see it as: you're lucky you're good at it, and i'm just unlucky. You don’t wake up being good at English. The reason someone is not getting good marks in English is proportional to the amount of effort they have put in overtime.

Sure, english is not for everybody, the same way maths and science etc aren't. So while you might not get an amazing mark you definitely could get a mark that will not significantly drag down your ATAR provided you look to improve instead of running away from it.
 

jimmysmith560

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A lot of students tend to lean towards neglecting english when they don't get good marks at first and focus on their other 8 units to sort of compensate.

Writing essays take time, research and scrapping ideas and starting over. Most people see it as: you're lucky you're good at it, and i'm just unlucky. You don’t wake up being good at English. The reason someone is not getting good marks in English is proportional to the amount of effort they have put in overtime.
100%

I don't see English as a useless subject, quite the opposite, but much can also be said about the other popular subjects. In my opinion, that's just not enough for English to be made compulsory

Consequently, their English results remain stagnant whilst their peers get even better marks which in turn demoralises them further. For comfort, what's better than nitpicking at the fact that you're forced to do it?

Sure, english is not for everybody, the same way maths and science etc aren't. So while you might not get an amazing mark you definitely could get a mark that will not significantly drag down your ATAR provided you look to improve instead of running away from it.
What about a case where an EAL/D student is forced to choose English Standard and ends up getting an 83 as his final HSC mark despite his diligence and efforts, instead of being able to pick a subject he’s actually good at and get a 95? The best 2 units of English will count regardless, so nothing could back it up really. (This is my case btw)

Science and maths aren’t for everybody, absolutely. However, we do get a choice of avoiding them, unlike English.
 

B1andB2

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What about a case where an EAL/D student is forced to choose English Standard and ends up getting an 83 as his final HSC mark despite his diligence and efforts, instead of being able to pick a subject he’s actually good at and get a 95? The best 2 units of English will count regardless, so nothing could back it up really. (This is my case btw)

Science and maths aren’t for everybody, absolutely. However, we do get a choice of avoiding them, unlike English.
To be honest i can understand it from an EAL/D perspective, not so much those who aren't. Though there are many EAL/D students that manage a 99+

So even if you really don't like English, you still get to choose 8+ units you do like. It's pretty fair for everyone.
 

idkkdi

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Why is English compulsory to begin with!? Essays suck. And people who went onto uni never used anything from English at all
because asians were bagging all the .95 atars with maths, phys and chem when english wasn't compulsory.

then they added in 2 compulsory units, but asians still bagged all the .95s. then nesa gave up.
 

jimmysmith560

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To be honest i can understand it from an EAL/D perspective, not so much those who aren't. Though there are many EAL/D students that manage a 99+

So even if you really don't like English, you still get to choose 8+ units you do like. It's pretty fair for everyone.
That's a fair perspective.

With the possibility of EAL/D students managing a 99+, I think that would also depend on their school and cohort? Those from comprehensive schools would likely find it harder to get an ATAR that high.

But yeah, in terms of fairness balance, 8 units of our choice and 2 compulsory units is definitely fair. :D
 

Hivaclibtibcharkwa

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A lot of students tend to lean towards neglecting english when they don't get good marks at first and focus on their other 8 units to sort of compensate.

Consequently, their English results remain stagnant whilst their peers get even better marks which in turn demoralises them further. For comfort, what's better than nitpicking at the fact that you're forced to do it?

Writing essays take time, research and scrapping ideas and starting over. Most people see it as: you're lucky you're good at it, and i'm just unlucky. You don’t wake up being good at English. The reason someone is not getting good marks in English is proportional to the amount of effort they have put in overtime.

Sure, english is not for everybody, the same way maths and science etc aren't. So while you might not get an amazing mark you definitely could get a mark that will not significantly drag down your ATAR provided you look to improve instead of running away from it.
That still doesn't add up as to why it's compulsory? I can do plenty of evaluation and analysation in other subjects? In the sciences you do huge depth studies, in maths you work hard on difficult questions, history and business studies also have 20 mark essays too? yet they aren't compulsory. The skills I'll develop in English are completely useless to me personally , and won't help me in my future pathway. If I intend to study maths and the sciences, they should let me study what I like and not force me to do something that will bring down my mark and is less relevant than other subjects for my personal use
 

Hivaclibtibcharkwa

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because asians were bagging all the .95 atars with maths, phys and chem when english wasn't compulsory.

then they added in 2 compulsory units, but asians still bagged all the .95s. then nesa gave up.
ah shoot didn't consider this, good point
 

Hivaclibtibcharkwa

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pretty sure this might actually be the legit reason.

go digging around in NESA docs and look for something like "diversity".
yea, cus I remember in America they didn't have enough diversity in their colleges, so they made some rules similar to this.
 

B1andB2

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That still doesn't add up as to why it's compulsory? I can do plenty of evaluation and analysation in other subjects? In the sciences you do huge depth studies, in maths you work hard on difficult questions, history and business studies also have 20 mark essays too? yet they aren't compulsory. The skills I'll develop in English are completely useless to me personally , and won't help me in my future pathway. If I intend to study maths and the sciences, they should let me study what I like and not force me to do something that will bring down my mark and is less relevant than other subjects for my personal use
all that stuff is hand in and research. Nothing you thought of. Just what others think and summarised into your own words.
 

Qeru

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all that stuff is hand in and research. Nothing you thought of. Just what others think and summarised into your own words.
Most depth studies involve planning your own experiment so requires your own analysis of results.
 

Eagle Mum

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because asians were bagging all the .95 atars with maths, phys and chem when english wasn't compulsory.

then they added in 2 compulsory units, but asians still bagged all the .95s. then nesa gave up.
English has been compulsory (& compulsorily included in the HSC aggregate & ATAR/UAC score) since well before I sat the HSC (when the Asian student population was very small) so I suspect it has always been compulsory.
 

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