Islam Discussion (2 Viewers)

[googooloo]

There is no solid evidence, it's called a hypothetical.

There you go. You have no evidence. If there is no solid evidence then you have no arguement.

However I can show you that it is more likely that there is no God than that there is one:

Argument 1:

Major premise: Occam's Razor; as assumptions increase, the likelyhood of an argument being correct decreases.

Minor premise: Religion makes more assumptions than atheism (it assumes that God exists, as well as certain characteristics about him).

Conclusion: Hence religion is probably incorrect.

Argument 2:

Major premise 1: Theories with more evidence are more likely correct than those with less evidence.
Major premise 2: Evolution is irreconcilable with the existence of a God (as if he is not the creator, then what is he?).

Minor premise: Evolution has more evidence than creationism.

Conclusion: Hence evolution is more likely correct, and hence it is likely there is no God.

ANd here again you are a loser of this arguement, one which has no substance to begin with becuase you have no solid evidence. Islam has solid evidence. It is the qur'an. How dence must you be to no see this! I mean you don't even have evidence to prove this, only hypothentical as you said. Qur'an is word of god. I put it to you to prove me wrong, that it is not the word of god. You try and write a qur'anic verse. No one has done it yet. Many people have tried. Not even 4line surahs can be replicated. Does that not prove that it is the word of god by that alone. Not to mention the future tellings in the qur'an, the science in the qur'an, the creation of the world inthe qur'an/just like the "big bang"/you must be blind to not see this.

Americans tried to create a new modern day qur'an...idiots. It is called al-fur'qan. This is a surah in al-qur'an. It sounds nothing like the words of qur'an in english and in arabic. That attempt is proof enough. Islam has solid evidence of hte existance of god, you have none of gods non-existence. Who here has acase for arguement? Who here has knowledge of the tuth? Who here knows true reality? Clearly not you.

So show me a qur'anic verse like all the others which you have made up yourself, then maybe you have substance and an arguement with substance.

 

[googooloo]

But it's saying non believers should be smoten, hardly the sign of a caring religion!

If you attack and kill our people, are we jsut supposed to take it?

Where did the verses come from? It depends on what surah. If you are reading ones discussing the tiem muhammad(PBUH) warred against his persecutors of course it will say this.

 

[googooloo]

2. AIDS in Africa.

AIDS and HIV was a product of humans, not religion. You clearly no nothing about this so don't talk about it.

 

[googooloo]

I really don't give a fuck what the original intent of religion was, the fact is that death occurs as a direct result of it.

So if there was no religion, there would be no death? is that what your saying?

 

[googooloo]

Moron .

I'm not a moron, I have a sarcastic tone, I thought it would be felt, but maybe next time i have ot say it.

 

[soha]

withoutaface
reality check
you are going to die reguadless weather it be caused by religon or a storm or a disease
so get the fuck over it

 

[veterandoggy]

fine. you dont want to believe a god exists? go ahead, and while youre at it, find me a verse written by someone that may seem like it is comparable to the verses of the quran and it will give hint that the quran could have been written by a human being. and try reading about how much was known in 600AD before you try replicating a verse, or giving me a replicated one. the best poets of arabia couldnt meet the challenge, and it is in their native tongue. so i dont know how much hope anyone of this era has.

oh, and before withoutaface replies with something idiotic, you dont count.

 

[withoutaface]

There you go. You have no evidence. If there is no solid evidence then you have no arguement.




ANd here again you are a loser of this arguement, one which has no substance to begin with becuase you have no solid evidence. Islam has solid evidence. It is the qur'an. How dence must you be to no see this! I mean you don't even have evidence to prove this, only hypothentical as you said. Qur'an is word of god. I put it to you to prove me wrong, that it is not the word of god. You try and write a qur'anic verse. No one has done it yet. Many people have tried. Not even 4line surahs can be replicated. Does that not prove that it is the word of god by that alone. Not to mention the future tellings in the qur'an, the science in the qur'an, the creation of the world inthe qur'an/just like the "big bang"/you must be blind to not see this.

Americans tried to create a new modern day qur'an...idiots. It is called al-fur'qan. This is a surah in al-qur'an. It sounds nothing like the words of qur'an in english and in arabic. That attempt is proof enough. Islam has solid evidence of hte existance of god, you have none of gods non-existence. Who here has acase for arguement? Who here has knowledge of the tuth? Who here knows true reality? Clearly not you.

So show me a qur'anic verse like all the others which you have made up yourself, then maybe you have substance and an arguement with substance.

Hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahha

How exactly is the Koran solid evidence. Please show me a properly structured argument that show's that God exists.

Does it go something like this:

Major premise: If something is the word of God, then God exists.
Minor premise: The Koran is the word of God.
Conclusion: Hence God exists.

Hang on, you're assuming what you're trying to prove! That's entirely fallcious and doesn't even show a probability of God existing.

We have no solid evidence that the Sun will rise tomorrow, but I can still say with relative conviction, based on the balance of probabilities that it will.

Also note that I wasn't arguing the point of atheism, I was just showing that it is more sensible than theism. I argue the point of agnosticism, which relies on the fact that neither side can say with 100% certainty that there is or there isn't, so my argument is perfectly valid.

So if there was no religion, there would be no death? is that what your saying?

http://sevenseas.9online.fr/images/seven_seas/straw man big.jpg
I never said that, I think there would be less premature death.

AIDS and HIV was a product of humans, not religion. You clearly no nothing about this so don't talk about it.

The Pope's failure to advocate proper contraception methods has meant the problem is a lot larger than it should be.

withoutaface
reality check
you are going to die reguadless weather it be caused by religon or a storm or a disease
so get the fuck over it

So if you're going to die anyway, would you have a problem if I murdered you now? It's not like it'll make a difference, will it?

 

[veterandoggy]

So if you're going to die anyway, would you have a problem if I murdered you now? It's not like it'll make a difference, will it?

yes it would. it would mean that she was meant to die at the time whether you killed her or not. besides, if she has done nothing wrong she will die a shaheeda (believer in the oneness of allah is the exact translation i think)
whats the point of the link? the creature is harmed by fire, right? and no, its not satan.

Also note that I wasn't arguing the point of atheism, I was just showing that it is more sensible than theism. I argue the point of agnosticism, which relies on the fact that neither side can say with 100% certainty that there is or there isn't, so my argument is perfectly valid.

so why do you follow either? if my assumtion is correct, both have similar unanswerable questions, so why do you follow one over the other?

 

[withoutaface]

I don't follow either.

ag·nos·ti·cism (ăg-nŏs't*-s*z'əm) pronunciation
n.

1. The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.
2. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.

 

[veterandoggy]

so shouldnt your title be "smasher of atheists and theists"?

 

[googooloo]

To say the Quran is the word of "god", first you have to prove that the said "god" exists.

This proves that existence, don't you get it! That's what I've been saying all along!
Jeez....

 

[veterandoggy]

apparently they dont, which is why they are still arguing

 

[googooloo]

How exactly is the Koran solid evidence. Please show me a properly structured argument that show's that God exists.

Does it go something like this:

Major premise: If something is the word of God, then God exists.
Minor premise: The Koran is the word of God.
Conclusion: Hence God exists.

Exactly. If the Qur'an (not koran) is the word of god, then this supplies evidence of gods existence. Then if the text says that there is only one god, and that gods name is ALLAH(SWT), then it is. You said it yourself, you just prove me right.

Hang on, you're assuming what you're trying to prove! That's entirely fallcious and doesn't even show a probability of God existing.

First you don't assume, you actually believe,a nd have an idea that god may exist. Then you search and you find this sold evidence. La ilaa ha il allah.

We have no solid evidence that the Sun will rise tomorrow, but I can still say with relative conviction, based on the balance of probabilities that it will.

It is the course of nature there it will, unless the sun explodes, but theat won't be for a long time now. How did this come to be?

Also note that I wasn't arguing the point of atheism, I was just showing that it is more sensible than theism. I argue the point of agnosticism, which relies on the fact that neither side can say with 100% certainty that there is or there isn't, so my argument is perfectly valid.

I never said you were argueing atheism, but you were asking for the esitence of god, i gave you proof, then you said how can god exist. la ilaa ha il allah. Your only showing an argument of tautology.

I never said that, I think there would be less premature death.

Premature death is not caused by religion. There is no such thing as premature death, all die when it is there time, and you cannot avoid it. Explain this concept of premature death to me please. It sounds interesting.

The Pope's failure to advocate proper contraception methods has meant the problem is a lot larger than it should be.

Now that's catholicism, not islam. That is a human saying so. In islam contraception is allowed. But it is the Pope saying so, the Pope is a human being, not a god. Bog needs no mediator, that was hte messengers, and they're now all dead...no more to come. God is more powerful than any man, god lets man be, if god wishes somethign to be, he says "be!" and it is. Pope is just a man, on a high horse, a wealthy high horse.


Almighty God says in Surat At-Tawbah:

[Those who hoard gold and silver and spend it not in the Way of God, announce unto them a most grievous penalty. On the day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs.] (At-Tawbah9 :34)

 

[googooloo]

I don't follow either.

ag·nos·ti·cism (ăg-nŏs't�*-s�*z'əm) pronunciation
n.

1. The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.
2. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.

If you look for objects of exact knowledge, then the Qur'an is it. But then that contradicts no. 2: The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist. SO what are you to do. If you ask me it sounds like your just confused and don't know where to turn. la ilaa ha il allah

 

[withoutaface]

Exactly. If the Qur'an (not koran) is the word of god, then this supplies evidence of gods existence. Then if the text says that there is only one god, and that gods name is ALLAH(SWT), then it is. You said it yourself, you just prove me right.

How is it the word of God? Do you have proof that God wrote it? What if I like Led Zeppelin, and decide that stairway to heaven was far too beautiful to be written by a human being, hence Jimmy Page is God?
False logic at its best. Gg.

First you don't assume, you actually believe,a nd have an idea that god may exist. Then you search and you find this sold evidence. La ilaa ha il allah.

You believe because you've assumed.

It is the course of nature there it will, unless the sun explodes, but theat won't be for a long time now. How did this come to be?

Exactly. But we still have no solid evidence of it, much like the arguments I presented against God it relies on a balance of probabilities.

I never said you were argueing atheism, but you were asking for the esitence of god, i gave you proof, then you said how can god exist. la ilaa ha il allah. Your only showing an argument of tautology.

You said I had no evidence. I countered by saying I didn't need evidence and the burden of proof lies upon your shoulders.

Premature death is not caused by religion. There is no such thing as premature death, all die when it is there time, and you cannot avoid it. Explain this concept of premature death to me please. It sounds interesting.

Those who died in the world trade centre attacks: premature deaths caused by religion. If Islam did not exist the bulk of those people would most likely still be alive today.

Now that's catholicism, not islam. That is a human saying so. In islam contraception is allowed. But it is the Pope saying so, the Pope is a human being, not a god. Bog needs no mediator, that was hte messengers, and they're now all dead...no more to come. God is more powerful than any man, god lets man be, if god wishes somethign to be, he says "be!" and it is. Pope is just a man, on a high horse, a wealthy high horse.

My argument was that religion causes death. Not Islam. This is but one of many examples.

If you look for objects of exact knowledge, then the Qur'an is it. But then that contradicts no. 2: The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist. SO what are you to do. If you ask me it sounds like your just confused and don't know where to turn. la ilaa ha il allah

You have a box in your lounge room. You cannot pick it up, shake it, or open it. You've gone out based on no solid evidence and declared to the world that that box contains a blue rubber ball. I've said that I have no way of knowing what is in the box, and to declare its contents is foolish. I am not confused, merely rational. The religious however, have turned to the existence of God because it gives them more hope than the non-existence of God. Why? Because they are confused.

 

[zahid]

omg googooloo...you have been away for so long...But then again so have I... Welcome back.

 

[veterandoggy]

yes, there have been many muslims rising up here again, or ignoring this section up until now. so welcome to you all! i felt like the odds were against me for too long...

 

[SashatheMan]

If you are corrupt in the mind you can take any text and make it appear to say what you want it to. Besides it is more than qur'an remember. There are hadith adn sunnah that muslims follow. ANd some groups choose to ignore or accept different hadith, even if they are not as confirmed as others. So you have people saying different things. Then you have people who make up stories adn feed it to the youth, then they do not know what is right and wrong and become corrupt in mind. So is the way allah works. All that happens has a purpose in life.

i was pointing out to soha that her 5 % is 75 million extremists. so her arguemnt is stupid , becuase thats a large number.

Maybe you read a 40yr old article, but have you read one from now? Everyone says christianity isn't growing any faster. Just look at the tacticts they need to get the youth involved and into the church... come up with catchy tunes for songs. or on the fronts of church bulletin boards, to re-invent the bible with a new look colour, cover, or to g o around forcing a re-vised edition into the hands of strangers. YOu shouldn't revise a sacred text. If it gods commands you don't alter then to make them more appealing, you leave them as they are, and if someone odn't like it it's their fault they can't understand and see. Why shouldn't christianity decrease and stop growing? I mean for muslims that only enhances the statement that the world will be all muslim when the world ends. Not untill this time will it happen.

first of all show me an article that said christianity is not growing.

christians might use those methods to attract followers , but look at the quran. The way its wirrten its scares the people into submission. verse after verse of how if you are a non-believer yuoll go to hell. descriptions of this hell ( even though noone been there to describe it). verses describing allahs horrible punishments and barberic acts, shortly followed by "he is merciful". its a scary crock of shit if you ask me. thats why your so scared to speak out cause your brain washed into believing allah will do sometihng.

Whenever there has been an attack against Islam, it has only ever made it increase in strength, in number, and in influence ont he world. So keep it coming

i wouldnt say its an attack, its a counter attack , or defence as a matter of fact. And i think yuor wrong on that increase in numbers, i need source if you make claims like that. It might strengthen the hate in muslims for the west , but thats only within the existing muslim community .

 

[SashatheMan]

. You try and write a qur'anic verse. No one has done it yet. Many people have tried. Not even 4line surahs can be replicated. Does that not prove that it is the word of god by that alone. Not to mention the future tellings in the qur'an, the science in the qur'an, the creation of the world inthe qur'an/just like the "big bang"/you must be blind to not see this.

.

tell me EXACTLY what you mean by not being able to replicate it.

replicate basicly means make a copy of it. i tihnk anyone can look at the quran and copy the verses .

if you mean replicate by trying to make similar verses, i also dont see how that cant be done.

i think yuor bullshiting. every text can be replicated