Selective school kids- would you have got a lower ATAR at a non-selective school? (1 Viewer)

Beyblader

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for those who went to or go to a selective school

- do you think your ATAR was/will be higher than it would have been if you had gone to a non-selective school?

- I have a friend wondering what to do with her kids aged 9 and 10 both very intelligent who are academically at/near the top of their classes at non selective private schools where they are both happy and well adjusted. They both have a personality type where they will probably feel happier with the confidence boost of being near the top of the class rather than being in the middle of the class.
- she wonders if they would do better in the long term academically at selective school or not?

I’m wondering if the kids will do better where they are (big fish in small ponds) as they are intelligent and have good work ethics or would the improved focus on academics amongst peers at a selective school help them more?

What do you hink?
 

quickoats

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where's the syd tech bois that get 80s
the hurlstones with 60s
I am sure there are techies that have gotten well below 80 (80s isn't even a bad score...) and yes, hurlstone has had some scores well below 60 as well. btw hahs>tech... However these are individual cases - not indicative of a whole school.
for those who went to or go to a selective school

- do you think your ATAR was/will be higher than it would have been if you had gone to a non-selective school?

- I have a friend wondering what to do with her kids aged 9 and 10 both very intelligent who are academically at/near the top of their classes at non selective private schools where they are both happy and well adjusted. They both have a personality type where they will probably feel happier with the confidence boost of being near the top of the class rather than being in the middle of the class.
- she wonders if they would do better in the long term academically at selective school or not?

I’m wondering if the kids will do better where they are (big fish in small ponds) as they are intelligent and have good work ethics or would the improved focus on academics amongst peers at a selective school help them more?

What do you hink?
One thing to tell your friend: ATAR is not everything... these kids are 9 and 10, you shouldn't be worrying too much about this sort of stuff at this point in time. Unless they're looking at something like medicine (don't push them into it at ages 9-10), the small differences in ATAR that may occur from going to different schools won't really matter.

Personally, I think that I would've gotten a lower ATAR in any other school than the one I went to (including local public, and top-tier selective). It was quite a relaxed school and I was able to do the subjects I enjoyed (weird mix) and do very well in them since I wasn't put under pressure or anything. If I went to a top-tier, such subjects aren't available, and if i went local, I probably wouldn't have been encouraged to explore as a "smart student" - both cases I probably would've ended up doing the typical "asian" mix of eng adv chem phys 4u math. Instead of learning properly myself (I only went to tutoring for math) I probably would've ended up in tuition for all of them and end up getting "average" marks for similar students who go to tuition for everything. I would ballpark around 96-97 in either of those cases.

eta: the difference in atar probably would have zero bearing on me

tl;dr I think it's very circumstantial and not just a selective vs non-selective type of argument.

@Eagle Mum is a mum so she might have some insight.
 
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idkkdi

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for those who went to or go to a selective school

- do you think your ATAR was/will be higher than it would have been if you had gone to a non-selective school?

- I have a friend wondering what to do with her kids aged 9 and 10 both very intelligent who are academically at/near the top of their classes at non selective private schools where they are both happy and well adjusted. They both have a personality type where they will probably feel happier with the confidence boost of being near the top of the class rather than being in the middle of the class.
- she wonders if they would do better in the long term academically at selective school or not?

I’m wondering if the kids will do better where they are (big fish in small ponds) as they are intelligent and have good work ethics or would the improved focus on academics amongst peers at a selective school help them more?

What do you hink?
anything tech and below is kinda dropkick.

depends on how good the private school is imo.

personally would have rather gone to any 30k+ a yr school than a selective school.

Though, if the kids want to do med, definitely consider Ruse.
 

mango73

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I mean if she is willing to pay the private school fees, then there's no problem. Since selective schools are government schools they are essentially free and offer the same quality of education as most private schools.
 

vishnay

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I mean if she is willing to pay the private school fees, then there's no problem. Since selective schools are government schools they are essentially free and offer the same quality of education as most private schools.
quality of education at selective is comparable to comprehensive although the students at selective schools are generally brighter
 

hstb_

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I mean if she is willing to pay the private school fees, then there's no problem. Since selective schools are government schools they are essentially free and offer the same quality of education as most private schools.
nope, my old comprehensive high school teachers are way better than most of my top selective school teachers. Top private like sgs,kings will have much better teachers
 

Eagle Mum

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I am sure there are techies that have gotten well below 80 (80s isn't even a bad score...) and yes, hurlstone has had some scores well below 60 as well. btw hahs>tech... However these are individual cases - not indicative of a whole school.

One thing to tell your friend: ATAR is not everything... these kids are 9 and 10, you shouldn't be worrying too much about this sort of stuff at this point in time. Unless they're looking at something like medicine (don't push them into it at ages 9-10), the small differences in ATAR that may occur from going to different schools won't really matter.

Personally, I think that I would've gotten a lower ATAR in any other school than the one I went to (including local public, and top-tier selective). It was quite a relaxed school and I was able to do the subjects I enjoyed (weird mix) and do very well in them since I wasn't put under pressure or anything. If I went to a top-tier, such subjects aren't available, and if i went local, I probably wouldn't have been encouraged to explore as a "smart student" - both cases I probably would've ended up doing the typical "asian" mix of eng adv chem phys 4u math. Instead of learning properly myself (I only went to tutoring for math) I probably would've ended up in tuition for all of them and end up getting "average" marks for similar students who go to tuition for everything. I would ballpark around 96-97 in either of those cases.

eta: the difference in atar probably would have zero bearing on me

tl;dr I think it's very circumstantial and not just a selective vs non-selective type of argument.

@Eagle Mum is a mum so she might have some insight.
I think you’ve provided plenty of great insight, in particular, your comment on ‘learning properly’ is one I would emphasise.

Quite a few posts from others have included very relevant comments, such as the fact that teachers are not necessarily better in selective schools. The selective school student population has been filtered through a very competitive exam process and whilst tutoring is not universal, it is more prevalent, so selective schools may not be ‘value adding’ much and I would agree that very capable students can thrive just as well in other school environments if they have the right support (that has certainly been our experience).

I’d agree that it’s very much dependent on the individual and their circumstances.
 
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Eagle Mum

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nope, my old comprehensive high school teachers are way better than most of my top selective school teachers. Top private like sgs,kings will have much better teachers
Some of the teachers at our local high school were teachers at top selective schools. I think the real estate prices pushed them further out and they got tired of commuting. 🤣
 

Trebla

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You should also consider the school's resources and capabilities.

For example, some schools will never have a class for Maths Ext2 simply because they don't have the teaching capabilities to support it or there are not enough people to justify a class. Same goes for more specialised subjects such as languages, arts or music. Even worse, some schools force perfectly capable students to do say Mathematics Standard to get their band 6 count up when they should really be doing Mathematics Advanced.

A similar notion is the standard that the school sets relative to the state with their resources. If teachers are predominantly focusing on helping students get say a good band 5 as the upper benchmark, then stronger students will usually have to find their own independent way to expose themselves to band 6 material especially if there aren't many like-minded peers they can conveniently access at school.
 

enoilgam

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for those who went to or go to a selective school

- do you think your ATAR was/will be higher than it would have been if you had gone to a non-selective school?

- I have a friend wondering what to do with her kids aged 9 and 10 both very intelligent who are academically at/near the top of their classes at non selective private schools where they are both happy and well adjusted. They both have a personality type where they will probably feel happier with the confidence boost of being near the top of the class rather than being in the middle of the class.
- she wonders if they would do better in the long term academically at selective school or not?

I’m wondering if the kids will do better where they are (big fish in small ponds) as they are intelligent and have good work ethics or would the improved focus on academics amongst peers at a selective school help them more?

What do you hink?
What's in bold is the most important thing and is far more valuable than a high ATAR. The debate around whether going to a selective schools leads to a higher ATAR has been around for years. If you look at the logic, I dont think there is much of a direct advantage in terms of scaling and moderation. I mean, it might help if you do poorly in your externals but overall, the advantage is minimal. The biggest determinate of a students ATAR is the student themselves.

I finished my HSC over 10 years ago and Ive been in the workforce for around 8 years and from that I reckon HSC/ATARs generally are way overhyped and over-exaggerated in terms of their value to a person's future. I went to a run of the mill Catholic school and it's really a mixed bag in terms of how high school performance impacts a persons future. I know a few guys who did really well who struggled to find work and ended up in menial jobs. On the flip side, I know so many who did poorly in high school but have been very successful since. One guy I know was a complete dropkick (got expelled for upskirting a teacher) and now he has a sweet position in finance. Another guy I know didnt even get an ATAR and he is a top real estate agent in our area (raking in a shitload of money might I add). Finally, there was one guy who was pretty much a nothing in high school (maybe 50 ATAR). He founded and run two multimillion dollar food delivery businesses (one sponsors an NRL team). We all laugh about it because he was literally a quiet non achiever in school. Now he earns more than all the guys I know who made it in finance, engineering, law etc.

Honestly, if I had kids, Id want them to be diligent and well adjusted with an ability to apply themselves to things. ATAR wouldnt be a major concern.
 

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