MedVision ad

Muslim cleric says its OK to rape your wife (6 Viewers)

КГБ

Banned
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
415
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
Yeah I am, though my family is Lebanese Muslim and made me study it, but I am totally emancipated from them and the religion now =D.

Yeah it is a requirement for all Muslims to learn Arabic, most Muslims nowadays follow a (extremely biased) scholar for what is halal (allowed) and haraam (forbidden) and don't even bother reading the Qu'ran or Hadiths themselves.
umm if your arab you should be able to read / comprehend the quran.

also, because you having a dig at people of a faith not corresponding to your own, Alaan abok labo abook, yabn al gahba okho el gahba, yal manyoch kess ommek o ommen yabetek.

Kir to koone nanat!
 
Last edited:

overRun

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
80
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
i got an idea, lets stopp arguing about what people believe and what is right, lets stop criticizing religions.

We will all die 1 day and we will find out what is after this life;

we will find out whether we go to hell or heaven.

we will find out whether 1 particular religion is right or if they are all right or none

we will find out if we have been good little boys and girls or bad boys and girls.

follow what ever religion u want

but we will find out 1 day, it may for u be tomorrow or in 100 years but we will find out.

so stop criticizing and going on about which 1 is right or wrong and start worrying about yourself and what u believe in YOU WILL BE GIVEN THE ANSWER
JUST BE PATIENT BECAUSE PATIENCE IS THE KEY TO EVERYTHING.
 

banco55

Active Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,577
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
i got an idea, lets stopp arguing about what people believe and what is right, lets stop criticizing religions.

We will all die 1 day and we will find out what is after this life;

we will find out whether we go to hell or heaven.

we will find out whether 1 particular religion is right or if they are all right or none

we will find out if we have been good little boys and girls or bad boys and girls.

follow what ever religion u want

but we will find out 1 day, it may for u be tomorrow or in 100 years but we will find out.

so stop criticizing and going on about which 1 is right or wrong and start worrying about yourself and what u believe in YOU WILL BE GIVEN THE ANSWER
JUST BE PATIENT.
Some of us think this life is kind of important.

OH and the Koran verse about beating your wife is 4:34.
 

КГБ

Banned
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
415
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
LOL you make me laugh, waheet el qu'ran you do, yes I am a manyoch, got a problem? kes emak, ya ibn sharmuta.
Ikhlassy akhrasi ya sharmoot wa iftahy khashmik. i dont really have a problem at all.
Airi fee kus imak eil sharmoota.

Haneek Afkar Omak, Haneek Omm elly Khalefetak, Haneek elly yetchad ded lak, now Kafekom kalaman bel Arabia ya hi wah naht.
 

skyline

Proud Aurion TRD owner
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
437
Location
up your buthole
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
WTF has the world come to? A Muslim cleric even has messed up ethics, or is that what that religion is all about?

correct.

the religion is all about the men being all horny, they literally carry their dicks on their shoulders... anywho, women are treated like slaves for the men, but i cant ever help notice, that the muslim women look like men anyway, so does that make them gay? ahahaha, and yeah the men can marry up to 4 wives, if he wants he can divorce and get another set of 4, and so on, pretty cool religion huh? its all about getting a root with the chicks bro hahaha, what chicks??? lol.
 

iamsickofyear12

Active Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Messages
3,960
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
I agree, forcing your wife to have sex with you is not rape.

...and I don't see what the big deal is about the hitting comment. It clearly says "as a last resort" and not hard enough to bleed or bruise. Sounds very reasonable.
 

overRun

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
80
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
Some of us think this life is kind of important.

OH and the Koran verse about beating your wife is 4:34.

Yes every1 thinks this life is important iam saying believe in whatever u want in this life belive whatever u want and do whatever u want. Im saying stop criticizing other religions on what is right for them ( whether it is right or wrong ) and start worring about urself
 

overRun

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
80
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
Some of us think this life is kind of important.

OH and the Koran verse about beating your wife is 4:34.

Yes every1 thinks this life is important iam saying believe in whatever u want in this life belive whatever u want and do whatever u want. Im saying stop criticizing other religions on what is right for them ( whether it is right or wrong ) and start worring about urself.


And in the Quran does it say specifically "Go beat your wife if she doesnt want to have sex"?


Copy the verse and explain every line and word and we will see
 
Last edited:

banco55

Active Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,577
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
Yes every1 thinks this life is important iam saying believe in whatever u want in this life belive whatever u want and do whatever u want. Im saying stop criticizing other religions on what is right for them ( whether it is right or wrong ) and start worring about urself.


And in the Quran does it say specifically "Go beat your wife if she doesnt want to have sex"


Copy the verse and explain every line and word and we will see
Have you got eyes?

"4.34": Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

The Holy Qur'an
 

overRun

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
80
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
I agree, forcing your wife to have sex with you is not rape.

...and I don't see what the big deal is about the hitting comment. It clearly says "as a last resort" and not hard enough to bleed or bruise. Sounds very reasonable.

i guess its like when people tell u hit your child if they miss behave.

Anyway this isnt the first time you hear about "violence against women"

What about all those ads they werent all for muslims.
what about all the domestic violence in homes
its not 1 particular groups problem its a wold wide issue of all religions

and anyway if someone says something for people to do they dont actually go out and do it.
 

Mike Larry

Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
31
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2013
Yeah I am, though my family is Lebanese Muslim and made me study it, but I am totally emancipated from them and the religion now =D.

Yeah it is a requirement for all Muslims to learn Arabic, most Muslims nowadays follow a (extremely biased) scholar for what is halal (allowed) and haraam (forbidden) and don't even bother reading the Qu'ran or Hadiths themselves.
just outta curiousity mate, because i haven't come across many people who have denounced their faith, but, why the change?
and do your parents know?
 

skyline

Proud Aurion TRD owner
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
437
Location
up your buthole
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
He doesn't know what his talking about, he read the Quran wrong, it doesnt say any thing about hitting or abusing the wifes.

I think he is an outrage idiot for making comments like that, making the muslim name look even worse than it already is.


Why would people do this?? Lets start by giving the religion a good name.

chillax dude, that guy was right about saying its ok to hit/abuse your wife, he interpreted the Quran which was written in arabic, not english.

women are seen nothing more then sexual/inanimate objects and slaves, thier purpose is to obey, why do you think muslim women arent allowed to wear a bikini in the beach, or be free like normal western women in society are???

you need to find the right Quran as to where it says that,its there written in arabic, but when you read the english version, the meaning is out of whack and means the complete opposite, and many quotes and lines are taken directly from the bible but altered to meet their needs making it have some strange similarities, apparently their are 32 Qurans published worldwide, all of which were written differently, from different people, at different times,many muslims easily minsunderstand the Quran, but if you want to read the truth, read the one in arabic, not english, thats the real deal we are talking about, and thats where the guy got it from, he didnt read nothing wrong, he said the truth...
 

overRun

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
80
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
Have you got eyes?

"4.34": Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

The Holy Qur'an


I think u changed it is

"Men are the {qawwam} of women, because Allah has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are {qanitat}, and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear {nushuz}, admonish them first, then refuse to share their beds, and finally {adriboo} them; but when they {ataa:} to you, then seek not against them means of annoyance: For Allah is Most High, great above you all. "

Qur'anic verse 4:34
 

iamsickofyear12

Active Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Messages
3,960
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
For fucks sake who gives a shit what it says in the Quran... this interpretation bullshit is BORING.
 

cutemouse

Account Closed
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,250
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
No, it's NOT okay to beat ANYONE, especially because they wont have sex with you!

Idealistically, the idea of beating a woman, but not bruising or making them bleed (which is described to be a knock on the shoulder) doesn't sound bad. But this stupid idea doesn't take into account of human nature. Everyone knows that it will get out of control and then you know what happens.

Also, if the religion permits beating your wife because she refuses to have sex with you, then what happens if she makes a considerably larger mistake, like commit adultery? Does that give the husband the right to beat his wife until there's no tomorrow? And is this a two way fold? Obviously not. Why should men be greater than women?
 

overRun

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
80
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
(Yusuf Ali) Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).





(Shakir) Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.



So as the last result and lightly.

and where does it say about forcing them to have sex with u.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2020-6-09 -- Updating my answer based on new learnings (as the internet is "forever").


The initial quote I took here is one English interpretation of the Quran taken by Yusuf for this passage, whether it means to say "lightly" is something that will need to be studied in Arabic to get the correct understanding.
However, the point here is that the Quran is giving us some guidelines on how best to approach a situation (maybe a constant argument or misbehavior, similar to what you may find with children) with your wife after first having admonished them, then refused the bed, and the final leading the "beating" (how hard is something which is not specified, so it could depend on the situation). One thing to note, though, to "beat" is the final action that the Husband might try. Remember this is not the first thing that is said to be done. One must first use logic and reason to get an understanding of why this is happening to get an understanding and then take the next appropriate steps. Remember this is a relationship between man and wife. The man is not inclined to be violent in any manner but if the wife has taken it to that stage, then that situation is between the man and wife and no one else. Unjust and unnecessary violence against women or anyone is forbidden and should never be taken! With correct dialog, anything can be solved (one must make the effort).
Just like if you have a child who constantly misbehaves, and they don't learn, and there is no logical reason for this misbehavior, then the parent has full right to take any action as they please. If they see fit that they must hit the child after constantly reminding the child of there behavior then that is the punishment.
Remember, the Quran mentioned that this is the final resort. It doesn't say this is the only resort, and that these are the only 3 methods to solve marriage issues. The Quran is giving you guidelines, which our Creator sees fit the best possible methods to handle these types of situations. Solving problems through reason and logic (Admonish) is the best method to avoid violence. Plus when you use reason and logic, you are using the creative part of your brain to solve a problem.
 
Last edited:

Gazz95

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
57
Location
Griffith/Wagga
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
haha so you think its okay to beat your wife but only if you do it lightly? Thats fucked up.
 

overRun

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
80
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
No, it's NOT okay to beat ANYONE, especially because they wont have sex with you!

Idealistically, the idea of beating a woman, but not bruising or making them bleed (which is described to be a knock on the shoulder) doesn't sound bad. But this stupid idea doesn't take into account of human nature. Everyone knows that it will get out of control and then you know what happens.

Also, if the religion permits beating your wife because she refuses to have sex with you, then what happens if she makes a considerably larger mistake, like commit adultery? Does that give the husband the right to beat his wife until there's no tomorrow? And is this a two way fold? Obviously not. Why should men be greater than women?

IT doesnt say to beat them if they dont have sex with you it says if they are disobedient then lightly hit them (like a mother hits a child if they misbehave, they dont beat the child to death, they may give a light hit)
 

skyline

Proud Aurion TRD owner
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
437
Location
up your buthole
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
ok maybe but lets look at it further:


Superior husband and inferior wife?

Throughout the Holy Qur'an, Allah emphasizes that men and women are equal for Him – Allah will judge them in exactly the same way 3. So it would be strange indeed if a verse would contradict this equality. But is that really the case here? The Arabic word used is {qawwam}, an intensive form of {qaim}, meaning: 'to take care of, to look after'. Therefore, does this verse say that men are superior to women? Not at all. It says: men must look after women. In Islam, men are obliged to financially provide for their wife and children. They have to pay for their housing, clothing, food, medicines, etc. That is what {qawwamoona} means: men must take care of women.

Misbehaviour?

Is this verse about what a man should do when his wife 'misbehaves'? The exact word used here, {nushuz}, means 'discord, hostiliy, dissonance'. In this context it could be interpreted as 'marital problems'.

Beating his wife?

The verse instructs a husband whose wife causes problems in their marriage to first talk to her about it, then leave the marital bed, then {adriboo} his wife, and all of this in view of pursueing a reconciliation as is evident from the subsequent verse 4:35.

The Arabic word used here, {adriboo}, from the root {d-r-b}, has several dozens of meanings, such as: 'to beat', but also: 'to forsake, to avoid, to leave'.

How do we know which interpretation to choose? One way to find out, is to relate this verse to other verses in the Holy Qur'an and to check if the meanings make sense. In this case, let us look at verse 24:2, which describes what should be done in case of adultery :
"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes..." (Holy Qur'an 24:2)4
This verse establishes the principle that for men and women, equal actions lead to equal punishment. When for adultery men and women must receive equal punishment, surely there is no reason why they should be treated differently for any lesser marital problem.

Now let us take a look at the consequences of interpreting {adriboo} one way or another.

Suppose {adriboo} means: 'to beat'.

In this case, verse 4:34 says that when a wife causes a problem in the marriage, her husband should first talk to her about it, then leave their bed, then beat her and all of this in view of increasing his chances of a reconciliation. On the emotional level, this certainly does not sound like a very promising course of action. So let us check this meaning against the bigger framework and in particular against the principle of 'equal behaviour leads to equal punishment'. This would imply that when a husband causes a problem in the marriage, his wife can beat him. At which he could invoke verse 4:34 to beat her again, so that the result would be a perpetual physical fight between spouses! Surely, this makes no sense at all. And indeed, it is not what Allah prescribes for the situation where a husband causes a rift, as will be explained in a moment.

Suppose {adriboo} means: 'to forsake, to avoid', possibly, as Mohammed Abdul Malek5 suggests: 'to separate, to part' .

Now what do we get? Verse 4:34 now says that when a wife causes a problem in the marriage, her husband should first talk to her about it, then leave their bed (forsaking his sexual satisfaction), then avoid her even more (not talking to her anymore, leaving the room when she enters it, and possibly even leaving the house for a while), in order to prevent things from getting worse, and on the contrary to let things cool down and create enough space in view of increasing chances of a reconciliation.

This sounds like a very logical chain of events.

Also, application of the general rule of verse 24:2 ('equal actions, equal punishment') now means that when a husband causes a marital problem, his wife should forsake a few of her rights, avoid her husband in increasing ways, and try to work towards a reconciliation. And yes, that is precisely what verse 4:128 says:
"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves" (Holy Qur'an 4:128)4
Understanding {adriboo} as 'to forsake, to (gradually) avoid (more and more), possibly eventually leave altogether', clearly makes sense when relating several verses to one another.

And there is more. Beating a wife, would contradict hadiths of the Holy Prophet who repeatedly said: “do not beat believing women!”. It would also contradict the Holy Prophet's instructions about anger – which (unless it is caused by injustice) he explained to originate from Satan and which he described as "a living coal on one's heart". One should not act upon ones anger, lest one would do things one would regret later. When you are angry when you are standing, sit down, the Holy Prophet said. And when you are still angry when you are sitting, then lie down. Interpreting this verse as allowing a husband to beat his wife, surely contradicts these rulings on anger.

Furthermore, Allah says in the Holy Qur'an that one must meet bad behaviour with something that is better, not with something that is worse, in order to turn a hostile situation into a friendly one:
"Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!" (Holy Qur'an 41:13)4
Therefore the word {adriboo} cannot really have meant “to beat”, can it. It must mean something that is better than causing problems, and avoiding the problem certainly is exactly that.

Based on the evidence presented here, it would seem that interpreting {adriboo} as 'to beat', causes several internal conflicts with the meaning of other Qur'anic verses and hadiths, while interpreting it as 'gradually forsaking, more and more and possibly leaving altogether', is a much more logical interpretation that is entirely consistent with the interpretation of other rules in the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet Muhammad.

What makes much more sense, is that this verse does not allow a 'superior' husband to 'beat' his 'inferior, disobedient' wife. On the contrary, this verse appears to tell us that a husband must look after his wife (an equal partner who, like he, is obedient to God), and that when his wife is causing problems in their marriage, he should first talk to her about it, if that doesn't help, he should begin avoiding her by leaving the marital bed. If that still doesn't resolve the situation, he should forsake her presence even more, avoid conversations, leave a room when she enters it, avoid her company altogether, and possibly leave the house for a while, so that no problems are added to the conflict, and so that things can cool down a bit to maximise chances for a later reconciliation.

Return to obedience?
When the problem is solved, when the wife is committed to the marriage again, then the husband is advised not to keep using the incident against her and to consider the incident closed.
The exact Arabic wording is: "when then they (fem.pl.) {aTa:} (with) you (masc.pl.), then seek not against them (fem.pl) means of annoyance". The verb {aTa:} (alif taa alif ayn) has several meanings, such as: 'obey', but also: 'comply, comply with, accommodate, give in to', or in French 'filer doux'. Consequently, the verse can be understood to mean: "when then they are committed to the marriage again", or: "when then they give in to/comply with the efforts of the husband to save the marriage", or "when they no longer cause marriage problems", ... Linguistically there is no compelling necessity to translate {aTa:} as "obedient to the husband" . Other interpretations are possible and indeed preferable. Earlier in the verse, there was no reason at all to translate {qanitat} as women who are "obedient to their husband" so that here there isn't any reason to imply that this verse is about a temporary disobedience and a subsequent return to obedience to their husbands. It is not a matter of obedience to him, it is a matter of {nushuz} (marriage problems). And the Holy Quran advises that when one of the partners causes a marriage problem, the other should gradually avoid the person who causes the problem, in order to save the marriage - irrespective of who started the strife (4:34, 4:128)

Yet of course, this is only an interpretation. Allah knows best.


ehhh dude, thats an over interpretation, and the source of where you copy and pasted this info can be misleading, if anything, its easy to alter and change the message its trying to deliver, but once again if you want to seek the truth, get a hold of the Quran written in arabic, the interpretation is completely different and you will find the verse about the men being able to hit their women if they refuse any order, you should look into it deeper, get a hold of the arabic version of the Quran, and just compare it to what you have found written in english...
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 6)

Top