Future of music? (2 Viewers)

[Teclis]

Artists shouldn't just create music for the money... If they do, then they deserve to lose everything!

P.S: Only a small percentage of people who have music actually pirate them (and even a smaller percentage of that percentage that pirate and DON'T buy the music afterwards). It's only anti-piracy agencies that exaggerate this value...

It IS a job numb nuts... you're a performer (I'm a working musician and studying music at the Con).

Yes we should make music for the love of it... but If we record it we deserve to be payed for it...

Do you know how much time and effort goes into recording just a single track? Do you know how much money it costs?

I'm a fairly efficient song writer... I can churn out a catchy tune in about 15 minutes with fairly reasonable lyrics and a good idea of an arrangement. But that's just generic rubbish...

My process usually begins with an inspiration from everyday life. When I've been in bands in the past this is it how it goes
- I'll write lyrics first.
- Then I'll get out my guitar or sit down at the piano and start thinking about the mood of the piece... I'll write a basic structure and start coming up with some generic ideas for the riffs/sections of the song.
- I'll then take my initial structure to the band (or to someone I trust to give constructive criticism if it's for a solo project) and we'll play it through a couple of times.
- We'll come up with new parts, add bits, take bits away, make this bit shorter, make this bit longer... cut that entirely, start again from scratch, keep it as is, change the riffs around, make the verse the chorus... We'll fiddle until most or all of us are happy with how it sounds.
- We'll play it some more, we'll leave it a while then play it again with fresh ears.
-We'll change a few little things, add a guitar solo here, remove some instrumentation there.
-We'll demo it with home recording equipment to see how it sounds recorded... maybe make a few more changes.
- We'll sit down with an engineer and/or producer, listen to the demo and play it live to give him an idea of the songs feel.
- We'll go into the studio, lay down drums, bass, guitar, piano, more guitar, more piano, vocals, horns, strings, more vocals etc etc until we get what the song needs
- We'll then spend at least as much time as we did recording it mixing it... applying EQ, compression, delay, reverb, gates, volume automation, panning...
- Create a first mixdown... take it home, listen to it, play it on a few different machines to see how it sounds... take it back, make some adjustments to the mix
- Send it off to get mastered

And then it comes back for us finally complete after many hours, much frustration and love and quite a few dollars later, for both our own enjoyment and yours.

We now have legal rights to do with this what we please... we had legal rights the moment we recorded the first beat. Now if we decide to allow you to download it free on our Myspace that's our prerogative (and I have on multiple occasions done that).

However, If I decide to release it on CD and on iTunes... and then you go and share my hard earned work with anyone who wants to download it, and you burn copies of this great CD that you bought on iTunes for all your friends...

I have EVERY RIGHT to be fucking pissed off. That's my artwork, my soul, my hard earned work and many hours of hard sweat to earn the dollars to pay for the studio time and the required equipment and the lessons etc etc etc to get to the stage where I can produce that music for your entertainment.

I am providing a service, and just as you go to the doctor to make your body better, or go the grocery store to fill your stomach...

You come to me to make your soul better and to satisfy your heart (or to make your body want to move or whatever reason you listen to music).

Now If I've created this music not for the love of it, but to make an earning, that's my business. Like I said before, I can churn out a meaningless piece of pop rubbish in about 15 minutes If I feel so inclined. If I decide to put the time and effort in to record that and release it you do NOT have the right to steal from me because you feel I'm selling out. Because my profession is to entertain, just as yours is to manage the accounts, or swipe the groceries through the checkout, or to put the magnesium in the silver nitrate to see what happens.



FUCK that pisses me off. Music is NOT expensive. I buy probably on average 1 album a week, and it costs me less than the amount of coffee I drink... Hell it costs me less than the amount I spend on transport a week. And I buy disks. Not iTunes which is even cheaper most of the time.

/Rant

On the original topic. Just as live musicians adapted to the existence of recording, we will adapt. People still buy CDs and download from iTunes... Bands still can make money.

 

[Jeboo]

Well I feel sorry for people like you too. Y'know, being stupid and all.

u mad

@Teclis: True. I don't write music, but I can see how you'd feel. But I guess people are gonna keep doing it. And if your music is good enough, and gets enough exposure, your larger fanbase will offset the losses (through concert tickets/merch) you make in the long run. I reckon anyway. And that's probably the way musicians are going to have to operate.

 

[hungwell1337]

autotune is the future

 

[myst1fy]

Armin Van Buuren and Dj Tiesto

 

[Phoenix Fury]

It IS a job numb nuts... you're a performer (I'm a working musician and studying music at the Con).

Yes we should make music for the love of it... but If we record it we deserve to be payed for it...

Do you know how much time and effort goes into recording just a single track? Do you know how much money it costs?

I'm a fairly efficient song writer... I can churn out a catchy tune in about 15 minutes with fairly reasonable lyrics and a good idea of an arrangement. But that's just generic rubbish...

My process usually begins with an inspiration from everyday life. When I've been in bands in the past this is it how it goes
- I'll write lyrics first.
- Then I'll get out my guitar or sit down at the piano and start thinking about the mood of the piece... I'll write a basic structure and start coming up with some generic ideas for the riffs/sections of the song.
- I'll then take my initial structure to the band (or to someone I trust to give constructive criticism if it's for a solo project) and we'll play it through a couple of times.
- We'll come up with new parts, add bits, take bits away, make this bit shorter, make this bit longer... cut that entirely, start again from scratch, keep it as is, change the riffs around, make the verse the chorus... We'll fiddle until most or all of us are happy with how it sounds.
- We'll play it some more, we'll leave it a while then play it again with fresh ears.
-We'll change a few little things, add a guitar solo here, remove some instrumentation there.
-We'll demo it with home recording equipment to see how it sounds recorded... maybe make a few more changes.
- We'll sit down with an engineer and/or producer, listen to the demo and play it live to give him an idea of the songs feel.
- We'll go into the studio, lay down drums, bass, guitar, piano, more guitar, more piano, vocals, horns, strings, more vocals etc etc until we get what the song needs
- We'll then spend at least as much time as we did recording it mixing it... applying EQ, compression, delay, reverb, gates, volume automation, panning...
- Create a first mixdown... take it home, listen to it, play it on a few different machines to see how it sounds... take it back, make some adjustments to the mix
- Send it off to get mastered

And then it comes back for us finally complete after many hours, much frustration and love and quite a few dollars later, for both our own enjoyment and yours.

We now have legal rights to do with this what we please... we had legal rights the moment we recorded the first beat. Now if we decide to allow you to download it free on our Myspace that's our prerogative (and I have on multiple occasions done that).

However, If I decide to release it on CD and on iTunes... and then you go and share my hard earned work with anyone who wants to download it, and you burn copies of this great CD that you bought on iTunes for all your friends...

I have EVERY RIGHT to be fucking pissed off. That's my artwork, my soul, my hard earned work and many hours of hard sweat to earn the dollars to pay for the studio time and the required equipment and the lessons etc etc etc to get to the stage where I can produce that music for your entertainment.

I am providing a service, and just as you go to the doctor to make your body better, or go the grocery store to fill your stomach...

You come to me to make your soul better and to satisfy your heart (or to make your body want to move or whatever reason you listen to music).

Now If I've created this music not for the love of it, but to make an earning, that's my business. Like I said before, I can churn out a meaningless piece of pop rubbish in about 15 minutes If I feel so inclined. If I decide to put the time and effort in to record that and release it you do NOT have the right to steal from me because you feel I'm selling out. Because my profession is to entertain, just as yours is to manage the accounts, or swipe the groceries through the checkout, or to put the magnesium in the silver nitrate to see what happens.



FUCK that pisses me off. Music is NOT expensive. I buy probably on average 1 album a week, and it costs me less than the amount of coffee I drink... Hell it costs me less than the amount I spend on transport a week. And I buy disks. Not iTunes which is even cheaper most of the time.

/Rant

On the original topic. Just as live musicians adapted to the existence of recording, we will adapt. People still buy CDs and download from iTunes... Bands still can make money.

Yeh, no one is saying you don't have a right to/shouldn't profit from that, of course you should.

The point was how it would impact on music, which I honestly can't see it having a profound affect at all.

 

[Teclis]

Yeh, no one is saying you don't have a right to/shouldn't profit from that, of course you should.

The point was how it would impact on music, which I honestly can't see it having a profound affect at all.

Well actually the quote I put in was saying that If I didn't make music because I enjoy but because I want to make money from something I'm good at... that I deserve to lose everything

 

[Phoenix Fury]

Well actually the quote I put in was saying that If I didn't make music because I enjoy but because I want to make money from something I'm good at... that I deserve to lose everything

Hmm, I can't say I see it as 'wrong' (or a relevant synonym) to be a musician purely for the money, though most people tend to prioritise enjoyment over income anyway (or at least most poeple seem to :S).

 

[Teclis]

Oh I enjoy most of the music I make.

But I'm a trained musician. That's what I do. If I can't earn money any other way than selling my soul... I mean music I don't like... then that's my choice.

I DO actually need to eat and pay rent

 

[Phoenix Fury]

Yeh, that's completely understandable.

EDIT: (despite the tone I'm not being sarcastic)

 

[thongetsu]

One Word. Justin Bieber.

 

[Teclis]

One Word. Justin Bieber.

Two words...

And while I may not like his music, and his rise to fame shits me no end, he still doesn't deserve to have people steal from him.

 

[thongetsu]

It was a joke...

 

[Born Dancer]

maybe im exaggerating but gig prices seem to be increasing.

interesting to see the link between this and declining revenue from music sales, perhaps it's just an effect of inflation/gfc

 

[Entrant]

maybe im exaggerating but gig prices seem to be increasing.

interesting to see the link between this and declining revenue from music sales, perhaps it's just an effect of inflation/gfc

Piracy.

 

[Born Dancer]

Piracy.

i dont know, there are sources to say that piracy isn't effecting cd sales.

despite whether or not these are reliable i am inclined to think that the cd format would begin decreasing as a result of digital sales regardless of whether piracy was present or not. i mean, it certainly doesn't help but i think the cd decline was inevitable really.

especially with the increase in online presence of bands, it seems natural to keep the format digital, does it not?

 

[Arctopus]

Profound one-word statement set to invoke thought in all who read. Look at my graduation date. That's right... be amazed.

 

[Cianyx]

maybe im exaggerating but gig prices seem to be increasing.

interesting to see the link between this and declining revenue from music sales, perhaps it's just an effect of inflation/gfc

Metallica went Platinum.
Their tickets cost $400.

A show I'm going to, Coffins.
With 5 awesome supports
$20

Inflation, bro

 

[57o1i]

Two words...

And while I may not like his music, and his rise to fame shits me no end, he still doesn't deserve to have people steal from him.

Copyright infringement and stealing are not necessarily synonymous.

 

[postnatal]

maybe im exaggerating but gig prices seem to be increasing.

interesting to see the link between this and declining revenue from music sales, perhaps it's just an effect of inflation/gfc

fuck i know all these 100+200+ shows. i don;t think i'll go to anything over $60 anymore unless a festival.

then you get the other kind, free shows at venues so they can sell expensive alcohol

 

[Trebla]

Artists these days make much more money from live concerts than from selling records. If an artist did not do many live performances and relied solely on record sales for income that artist would go broke very quickly.