Accused of Cheating/Plagiarism/Collaborating (1 Viewer)

[MolestLawzy]

Ok, I've talked to a fair amount of people but would appreciate anyone's input on the site aswell. Here's the situation:

We did our Area of Study:Journey assessment for our HSC exam block last term. It was a speech. Me and my twin brother decided to use the same OT's (which were Journey's Over Land and Sea, Felix Skryznecki, Crossing the Red Sea and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade). All these link together fairly easily as well as having a good individual base on which to discuss journey and more specifically physical journey.

Anyways, after the results came back both me and my twin brother's marks got halved from 8 to 4 (I was unhappy with the 8 to begin with) but it had been halved due to me and him apparently "collaborating and/or plagairising". In all honesty, I had not even read his speech nor had he read mine. We used the same resources (we own a couple study guides to Skryznecki and Journey, as well as using the same websites/sources to write up our speeches). Coincidentally, we had the nearly the same quotes and discussed similar themes etc when linking the texts together. Our speeches sound entirely different though and many sections, including purpose/context/audience of all the texts are different. Basically the only similar things that are the same are the themes dicussed and quotes/techniques used to support them. Which means about 8 mutual quotes, themes AND techniques collectively.

One could argue that, being twins, having the same OT's and also using the same resources, we are more than likely going to come up with similar speeches right? It's not like there were many, if any, alternatives if you had to find alternate mutual themes between the chosen texts. Also, of course we did disucss our speech just as we discussed it with our friends etc.

Some context to the situation is this:
-We knew we were reading the speech to the same teacher
-We knew that palm cards were being collected and may possibly be checked
-Me and my brother are not stupid. I was 2nd all through prelim English and had (untill the results came back ) 3 courses with 100% marks.
-Never been caught cheating before, ever. I've also done what I did with my brother (and also other friends, it wasn't just my brother) before and it has never raised alarm. Possibly because we weren't all twins?

Thus, we would not be DUMB enough to cheat.

Lastly, say I do appeal and get my mark reversed (I'm currently ranked last in the year if i get 4/15 as my other assessment was lost haha), do I possibly face some kind of persecution because I chose to "fight the power" or some s**t like that? This is really depressing me though so I can't let it go without a fight, but I'm also still hesitant as to the consequences of being successful, let alone unsuccessful.

So what's your advice or comment?
I'll be going through with the appeal anyways, this is killing meeeeeeeee. Ironic how people who used the exact same speech didn't get caught isn't it.

 

[MolestLawzy]

Are you sure you're marks didn't get halved because they believe you both plagiarised from an external source, such as the study guide?

No, it was for plagiarising off one another, also called "collaborating" as they say. I'd be willing to send you our speeches if you wish? You're a reputable member

 

[MolestLawzy]

I've looked at those but they can be manipulated to benefit either case.

Having read those before, on casual inspect it would seem like me and my brother did, and it's a stretch, break the one of those. But as I said, it's a stretch. Being twins, one would expect similar works.

 

[Riviet]

It seems like it's going to be very difficult to convince your school, you don't have any real evidence that you can use, as you guys used the same resources, which is a bit of a double whammy.

Just some advice for a possible future assessment, try to stay away from using the same resources, do research yourself and don't share it with your brother or anyone else. Sharing ideas might not be a good idea either, especially if you're preparing for example a creative writing piece for paper 1.

 

[Monstar]

......0wned...
BL. I dont think you will be able to convince em..

 

[biggie walls]

Yeah man sounds like your fucked, but still you have to make a fight for those marks!! I suggest you build up a good case in relation to BOS rules/regulations for plagiarising and take the matter directly to your principal, explain what happened and you might just get away...

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

it seems to be a pretty impossible situation but seriously don't give up, fight for the marks you deserve. the school really should understand that it's not unreasonable for two siblings living in the same house to make use of the same resources and thus come up with speeches that are similar in content. if your speeches were as structurally different as you say and the only simlilarity is in the texts and quotes etc used, then i dont see how it can be called collaborating or plagiarism. perhaps you should have used different texts but they cant persecute you for doing the same ones - the choice of texts is made at the discretion of the student and just because you're siblings doesnt magically mean you're not allowed to use similar texts and resources. you could point that out to the school and see what they say.

 

[luscious-llama]

So what's your advice or comment?
I'll be going through with the appeal anyways, this is killing meeeeeeeee. Ironic how people who used the exact same speech didn't get caught isn't it.

It seems just like pure bad luck that you and your brother used the same resources and similar quotes and things. However from what you've said, its not obvious cheating or anything like that - so fight for it. Both you and your brother.

Can you consult the head teacher of English at your school as this is assessment?
It seems just a dreadful mistake - you and your brother shouldn't have had the same teacher marking it either.
You've also stated that one of your assessments has been lost, I guess this can be attributed to a teacher's negligence.

So appeal!

You should not have to face any persecution at all regarding this incident

I know its not quite like appealing against 'cheating' but I had to fight for my rights to get Studies of Religion via distance education as my school was threatening to not let me do it [I had done the prelim and all and it was counting as my 10th unit]
I went all the way to the Principal regarding it and I won my case for it.
I was threatened with persecution but I warned that if I recieved any [there was one teacher who was really pissed off at having to let me do this and made it verbal] then I would take any of this against me to the heads of welfare.

Good luck

 

[sasquatch]

why would you use exactly the same texts anyway?? especially related texts.. sounds a bit like its both of your faults...

 

[sando]

If you cheated.... shouldnt u recieve a 0 (zero) not get your marks halved...

U should appeal... as the school wouldnt have any evidence... then get your parents to talk to them and threaten with taking this further to the Board of Studies

 

[Monstar]

Ironic how people who used the exact same speech didn't get caught isn't it.

oi dude.. dont tell on the dudes who cheated. Dont even mention that.. if you did.. that would be gay

 

[xx__savannah]

-Never been caught cheating before, ever. I've also done what I did with my brother (and also other friends, it wasn't just my brother) before and it has never raised alarm. Possibly because we weren't all twins?

Thus, we would not be DUMB enough to cheat.

Mate, you should take it further, but don't word it like that. That can be misconstrued as saying you've cheated before but got away with it, so why not now.
Personally, I would ask the teacher marking it or the Head of English what other 'original' themes you should have talked about that are still relevant -- I mean, there can only be so many links you can flesh out to an appropriate length, so there are bound to be similarities between absolutely anyone.
Last time I got accused of plagiarising was a non assessable creative writing task in Year 7 cos it was "too good" so i brought in a portfolio of all my creative writings and then they enrolled me in a Gifted Program, however that shows nothing other than challenging people often works.

On a side note, did you do anything about your assessment being lost? Why didn't you have it backed up or something, and why didn't you get an estimate for it?

 

[orange_blob]

If you cheated.... shouldnt u recieve a 0 (zero) not get your marks halved...

Yeah, because if there where two of you working together wouldn't you theoretically be able to get twice what you would normally get, thus halving it wouldn't be a penalty at all.

Next time you should do it together, maybe even get someone else in on it too, then even if they halved the mark you would make a profit.

 

[MolestLawzy]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I'll get back to you on how it goes.

-I won't use the precendence thing as evidence, that's stupid. I won't rat on other people who have cheated.
-We used the same texcts cause we didn't have to hire 2 movies and the other OT"s were just natural choices based on the fact we used the same OT (movie).
-I'll be disucussing this point mainly: "Personally, I would ask the teacher marking it or the Head of English what other 'original' themes you should have talked about that are still relevant -- I mean, there can only be so many links you can flesh out to an appropriate length, so there are bound to be similarities between absolutely anyone." And mum will come too. OWNAGE!!

I'm in a rush, I'll reply later.

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[sando]

and i don't see how someone who gets 8/15 could be cheating.... if u both recieved full marks, then it would be a little suss.. but an 8 is almost a fail

 

[Roobs]

getting your marks halved is Utter BS, as said above malpractise should give you a zero (dont mention that to your school though), but getting your marks halved sounds live a teacher with a grudge or a pole up his ass

on another not all the twins i know THINK ALIKE to some extent, and in conjunction with everything you have said i think you have perfect grounds for an appeal.

with that said, dont involve more of the people against you than neccesary.

Get a teacher or teachers on your sideif you can, if not from your school, from another school--fact of the matter is that often schools dont even open their ears till PARENTS-- FEE/TAX PAYERS get involved. get your parents to ring the school and arrange a meeting with the principal---teachers and head teahers are essentially burecrats when it comes to HSC/BOS stuff, but principals can actually do something. possibly invite the head teacher of english to the meeting, but make sure the dickhead teacher who marked your papers isnt there.

make sure both your parents go to meet with the principal, and DRILL them with all the information they need. if your gonna argue anything the most important thing is to know your shit through and through.

and also whats the go with the other "lost paper" did the teachers lose it or did u not hand it in? like WTF mate u should get an average based on assesments BEFORE this one (im assuming you did the 4/15 and the lost paper around the same period)

anway hope this helps and best of luck to you. if you still get knocled back contact the board of studies, what youve described is a fucking injustice mate

 

[MolestLawzy]

Yeah, I did an assessment about 1.5 months ago and realised when I spoke to the English Co-ord that I hadn't recieved my results for it. He says he doesn't know where it is..so yeah. It hasn't been officially lost -yet- but after 1.5months (including the holidays) you'd think it's pretty much a goner. The english co-ord also said he supports the teacher 100%, although I don't think he's looked at our speeches. He said he knows me and my bro are very able students..meh watever. Tomorrow is the day

Facing the possibility I could get an estimate, or even an average, I can't let this 4/15 result go through. I'd have to get 100% in my next 2 assessments to raise my "estimate" value to around 80% (i got 13/20 in thefirst assessment). And an average would suck considering the averageg for advanced english for the speech was 10 and thus an average for the lost assessment wouldn't help much. I was going to originally let the 4/15 go because I don't like confrontation but then I realised it could really bite me on the ass later down the track.

I'll also hopefully be getting the support of another teacher, my Eco teacher who teaches standard english. I explained to her my situation and she says plagiarism is a really hard thing to accuse someone of, but she has yet to see our speeches. Hope it goes through.

A friend of mine recieved 13 for a speech which was similar to mine in that he discussed the same Skrynecki poems and Jorneys Over Land and Sea but used The Matrix as another OT, so there was a slight variance. Just shows how inconsistent the marking in this speech was. A guy who got 14 who got marked by the same teacher who marked me stuttered the whole time and missed a whole section that was asked to be discussed. He also said it took him a half hour tops to write his up. Good stuff aye.

 

[xx__savannah]

A friend of mine recieved 13 for a speech which was similar to mine in that he discussed the same Skrynecki poems and Jorneys Over Land and Sea but used The Matrix as another OT, so there was a slight variance. Just shows how inconsistent the marking in this speech was. A guy who got 14 who got marked by the same teacher who marked me stuttered the whole time and missed a whole section that was asked to be discussed. He also said it took him a half hour tops to write his up. Good stuff aye.

Yeah, shit like that is ridiculous -- I'm willing to bet a guy from my grade plagiarised pretty much all of his 3min speech on new age religions, the only thing I thought was his was a lame joke about that Expo thingy, teachers were sus and asked to see his palm cards and the other girl that did it from another class to compare, but he got it off the net whereas she's smart enough to write it herself, so he got 98% for that speech -.-

And yeah, this might be a bit late, but hope you did well with the teachers.

 

[MolestLawzy]

Well to update.

No one knew the correct procedure to appeal this. So I went to the Curriculum Co-ord. Things didn't really go as planned; I didn't get to present my speech/argument or anything like that. I did provide a brief explanation as well as a satchel of all the notes me and my bro used, fully highlighted etc. Those should provide a convincing argument in themselves. I should have a result by wed/thurs with the possibility of me appearing before a tribunal.

My other English assessment hasn't been found yet.

Thanks for everyone's help and support!

 

[MolestLawzy]

Final Update

Got my mark back yay! Me and my bro got 9 and 7 respectively (the teacher had changed both our marks to 8 so it was easier to half and subsequently make the speeches seem more alike). 9 is soooo much better than 4! Sometimes life IS fair after all (blah blah). I'm just really happy ok, cya guys.

THANKS FOR EVERYONES INPUT.