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Adv. English is a joke (1 Viewer)

thomas_hb

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The Advanced English course is a croc of shit. If the Daily Telegraph wants to get up in arms about wasted tax funding on the Cross City Tunnel then surely this throwing of money into the black hole of apparent intellectualism should raise an eyebrow.

There is not one thing in the Adv. Eng. course that will be of any use to anyone. Ever. Unless they plan on becoming an Adv. Eng. teacher.
It seems that the people that do well in English are those that can bend over backwards to lick their own buttholes and recite bullshit about omnicience and sensationalism without actually understanding these concepts. In Term 3 of Year 11 a girl in my class who both at the time and now is ranked about 2nd or 3rd out of 65, raised her hand and earnestly asked: "Miss, what's allegory?" They should have sent her to ESL there and then! This, from someone that is apparently a top 5 student is shameful. It's not her fault, but the fault of the teaching staff and the Board of Studies for not having in place a syllabus that actually teaches people the fundamentals of the English language, but rewards rewriting an essay prepared for you by the teacher about a shit film that you wouldnt normally ever watch anyway.

Then, more recently, another person who at the time was ranked at 3rd or 4th in our cohort got up and delivered a speech about Frontline for an Oral task, and pronounce "hyperbole" as "hyperbowl". I was affronted. Here we were, having the English language made a mockery of, by someone who our teachers claim is superior to us in the "Advanced English course". Clearly they are making a distinction between the English Course, and actually being able to read or write. Furthermore, this can't even be dismissed as being a simple mistake of reading through an unknown text and overlooking a small nuance in pronounciation. No!. She wrote the bloody thing herself... Which gives her two options to excuse her faux pas. Either she plagiarised it and overlooked it, OR she never knew how to pronounce it in the first place. Yes, I'm sure people will say it's an honest mistake, but really and truly! We don't go around accidentally pronouncing "picturesque" as "pictureskew" do we?! No. We just bloody know some things about our language. Some on the other hand, DON'T.
This wouldn't be all to bad, except it's these goons that are getting honours marks for their apparent ability.

I can't wait for these idiots to enter the real world and find that when they run into difficulty there wont be an over-the-hill, tarted up English teacher there to mollycoddle them and bail them out with another annotated essay that they could use. And what a shock it will be for them when they realise that prospective employers actually couldn't give a toss about their opinions on the opening sequence of Bladerunner...unless of course they're an English Head of Dep...and so it goes on...the vicious cycle of ignorance stupidity and pre-prepared essay writing.

It's a crying shame this farce has been allowed to go on as long as it has.
 

=slade=

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lol its so true...and i cant even watch a movie anymore without subconsciously analysing it!

in my class, we have so so many had essays marked with 'sentence struture refinement needed', and being the only comment we have recieved a mark of 13/20...WTF? and not once have we ever had a lesson on sentence structure...such bullshit!
 

nwatts

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I'm not a fan of the advanced course, but I disagree with a lot of what you have to say. Advanced English does not particularly favour those students who can think and learn on a sophisticated and complex level, and I can tell you're upset about it, and I don't like it either. I don't like it how advanced essays are essentially an exercise in conformity, and don't reward those who display the more creative expression that comes from a natural talent in essay writing.

I've had a lot of grief over the year, because I'm an extremely argumentative person, who's injected a very strong thesis into an essay (often of very left-field) to have it marked down because it does not meet the marking criteria of an advanced essay. My natural ability to build and sustain an argument in an essay wasn't rewarded, because essentially markers are looking for various details from the text, rather than something to link them together.

HOWEVER, the advanced course is not useless. It teaches students how to rip apart texts properly, but then doesn't particularly use these texts in the most advantageous of manners (example: module A is a joke). It also provides a pathway to extension courses, which is valuable in itself.

thomas_hb said:
If the Daily Telegraph wants to get up in arms...
Referencing anything News Ltd. won't do you any favours. ;)

thomas_hb said:
There is not one thing in the Adv. Eng. course that will be of any use to anyone. Ever.
Module B - Critical Study. Very useful. Considering texts according to different social perspectives is valuble and important. It will also appear in a wide range of career paths, mostly arts based.

thomas_hb said:
Then, more recently, another person who at the time was ranked at 3rd or 4th in our cohort got up and delivered a speech about Frontline for an Oral task, and pronounce "hyperbole" as "hyperbowl". I was affronted. Here we were, having the English language made a mockery of, by someone who our teachers claim is superior to us in the "Advanced English course". Clearly they are making a distinction between the English Course, and actually being able to read or write. Furthermore, this can't even be dismissed as being a simple mistake of reading through an unknown text and overlooking a small nuance in pronounciation. No!. She wrote the bloody thing herself... Which gives her two options to excuse her faux pas. Either she plagiarised it and overlooked it, OR she never knew how to pronounce it in the first place. Yes, I'm sure people will say it's an honest mistake, but really and truly! We don't go around accidentally pronouncing "picturesque" as "pictureskew" do we?! No. We just bloody know some things about our language. Some on the other hand, DON'T.
Haha.. on a normal day I'd completely agree with you. But the mispronunciation of hyperbole is not the end of the world. If he knew what it meant, and could use it properly in her speech, it is an honest mistake. Pronunciation is important, but not "oh noes i'm emo *slashes wrists*" important.

thomas_hb said:
I can't wait for these idiots to enter the real world and find that when they run into difficulty there wont be an over-the-hill, tarted up English teacher there to mollycoddle them and bail them out with another annotated essay that they could use. And what a shock it will be for them when they realise that prospective employers actually couldn't give a toss about their opinions on the opening sequence of Bladerunner...unless of course they're an English Head of Dep...and so it goes on...the vicious cycle of ignorance stupidity and pre-prepared essay writing.
Now you're really ranting. There's not a lot of content in this paragraph, apart from your Bladerunner comment. You could end up a film reviewer, you know. Also, pre-prepared essays are discouraged by teachers. And if they aren't, they should be. If only for the reason that it's very easy for someone to walk into the exam and be presented with an entirely different question to what they've prepared.
 

nwatts

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Also stop spamming this around. You'll make mods angry. And you make me angry.

*Nick angers*
 
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nwatts said:
I don't like it how advanced essays are essentially an exercise in conformity, and don't reward those who display the more creative expression that comes from a natural talent in essay writing.

I've had a lot of grief over the year, because I'm an extremely argumentative person, who's injected a very strong thesis into an essay (often of very left-field) to have it marked down because it does not meet the marking criteria of an advanced essay. My natural ability to build and sustain an argument in an essay wasn't rewarded, because essentially markers are looking for various details from the text, rather than something to link them together.
.
I totally agree with you on this front. And no I don't actually think english adv is useless.
I've always wanted to theorise with things I've found myself in the analysing of texts, and have too suffered the wrath of left-field or 'unprecedented' takes on things :(
 

Robert422

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Advanced English

I love English, but i agree with the idea of sentence structure is this assumed knowledge? how are we meant to knwo if we havent fully been tought? and we havent sice little children in gramar and such and that was simple. Now witht he complex questions and ideas we need to refine our elementary skills and no teachers are willinging to do so as i belive they dont know how to themselves! they only know how they do it and cant teaach it because its not in a text book! which is totally true. I love the English concepts though except King Lear and my teacher who is awesome gives us the best ideas and explanations of the concepts but doens t go into gramar and sentence structure at all. All in all even if i perform bad on the test it is only a peice of paper life doenst end at the H.S.C and i enjoyed the Advannced course regardless of exam result. :D Godd luck for those with remaining tests!

Kind Regards,

Robert Murphy
 
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thomas_hb said:
The Advanced English course is a croc of shit. If the Daily Telegraph wants to get up in arms about wasted tax funding on the Cross City Tunnel then surely this throwing of money into the black hole of apparent intellectualism should raise an eyebrow.

There is not one thing in the Adv. Eng. course that will be of any use to anyone. Ever. Unless they plan on becoming an Adv. Eng. teacher.
It seems that the people that do well in English are those that can bend over backwards to lick their own buttholes and recite bullshit about omnicience and sensationalism without actually understanding these concepts. In Term 3 of Year 11 a girl in my class who both at the time and now is ranked about 2nd or 3rd out of 65, raised her hand and earnestly asked: "Miss, what's allegory?" They should have sent her to ESL there and then! This, from someone that is apparently a top 5 student is shameful. It's not her fault, but the fault of the teaching staff and the Board of Studies for not having in place a syllabus that actually teaches people the fundamentals of the English language, but rewards rewriting an essay prepared for you by the teacher about a shit film that you wouldnt normally ever watch anyway.

Then, more recently, another person who at the time was ranked at 3rd or 4th in our cohort got up and delivered a speech about Frontline for an Oral task, and pronounce "hyperbole" as "hyperbowl". I was affronted. Here we were, having the English language made a mockery of, by someone who our teachers claim is superior to us in the "Advanced English course". Clearly they are making a distinction between the English Course, and actually being able to read or write. Furthermore, this can't even be dismissed as being a simple mistake of reading through an unknown text and overlooking a small nuance in pronounciation. No!. She wrote the bloody thing herself... Which gives her two options to excuse her faux pas. Either she plagiarised it and overlooked it, OR she never knew how to pronounce it in the first place. Yes, I'm sure people will say it's an honest mistake, but really and truly! We don't go around accidentally pronouncing "picturesque" as "pictureskew" do we?! No. We just bloody know some things about our language. Some on the other hand, DON'T.
This wouldn't be all to bad, except it's these goons that are getting honours marks for their apparent ability.

I can't wait for these idiots to enter the real world and find that when they run into difficulty there wont be an over-the-hill, tarted up English teacher there to mollycoddle them and bail them out with another annotated essay that they could use. And what a shock it will be for them when they realise that prospective employers actually couldn't give a toss about their opinions on the opening sequence of Bladerunner...unless of course they're an English Head of Dep...and so it goes on...the vicious cycle of ignorance stupidity and pre-prepared essay writing.

It's a crying shame this farce has been allowed to go on as long as it has.
was it necessary to start a whole thread just for this? Advanced English will always be favouring those who are good at it. It's a natural fact, you either have it or you don't, this applies to every subject. So stop procrastinating and study for your other exams, English is over.
 

thomas_hb

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redbloodedwoman said:
was it necessary to start a whole thread just for this? Advanced English will always be favouring those who are good at it. It's a natural fact, you either have it or you don't, this applies to every subject. So stop procrastinating and study for your other exams, English is over.
And what is 'it' ?
An ability or desire to produce rubbish essays? A lack of ACTUAL critical thought or analysis? And this 'it' doesn't apply to other subjects. Thankfully, in subjects such as History and Geography, opinions that differ to those of the text or the teacher (as long as they are reasonable) are not only appreciated, but expected. English on the other hand, as myself and others have mentioned, punishes anybody that tries to present a view contrary to the specified norm. Which is, if you THINK about it, polar opposite to "critical thought or analysis". However it stands to reason that someone who is "good" at English or has 'it', is not likely to think about it at all and I'm wasting my time as I'm only preaching to the enlightened. The people that actually have issues (redbloodedwoman ? ) and should be listening aren't able or prepared to consider my opinion...and so we arrive at the same conclusion don't we?! You (as a collective) CANNOT appreciate opinions and thoughts contrary to your own.

Yes, I'm ranting...deal with it.
 

thomas_hb

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And I'm not spamming it either, it's only in the two forums regarding Adv. English.
 

_dhj_

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I'm pretty sure that if you come to a conclusion which is contradictory to the norm in the HSC, they won't mark you down for it. Internal marking was always fairly dodgy and subjective.
 

Red Cordial

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thomas_hb said:
The Advanced English course is a croc of shit. If the Daily Telegraph wants to get up in arms about wasted tax funding on the Cross City Tunnel then surely this throwing of money into the black hole of apparent intellectualism should raise an eyebrow.

There is not one thing in the Adv. Eng. course that will be of any use to anyone. Ever. Unless they plan on becoming an Adv. Eng. teacher.
It seems that the people that do well in English are those that can bend over backwards to lick their own buttholes and recite bullshit about omnicience and sensationalism without actually understanding these concepts. In Term 3 of Year 11 a girl in my class who both at the time and now is ranked about 2nd or 3rd out of 65, raised her hand and earnestly asked: "Miss, what's allegory?" They should have sent her to ESL there and then! This, from someone that is apparently a top 5 student is shameful. It's not her fault, but the fault of the teaching staff and the Board of Studies for not having in place a syllabus that actually teaches people the fundamentals of the English language, but rewards rewriting an essay prepared for you by the teacher about a shit film that you wouldnt normally ever watch anyway.

Then, more recently, another person who at the time was ranked at 3rd or 4th in our cohort got up and delivered a speech about Frontline for an Oral task, and pronounce "hyperbole" as "hyperbowl". I was affronted. Here we were, having the English language made a mockery of, by someone who our teachers claim is superior to us in the "Advanced English course". Clearly they are making a distinction between the English Course, and actually being able to read or write. Furthermore, this can't even be dismissed as being a simple mistake of reading through an unknown text and overlooking a small nuance in pronounciation. No!. She wrote the bloody thing herself... Which gives her two options to excuse her faux pas. Either she plagiarised it and overlooked it, OR she never knew how to pronounce it in the first place. Yes, I'm sure people will say it's an honest mistake, but really and truly! We don't go around accidentally pronouncing "picturesque" as "pictureskew" do we?! No. We just bloody know some things about our language. Some on the other hand, DON'T.
This wouldn't be all to bad, except it's these goons that are getting honours marks for their apparent ability.

I can't wait for these idiots to enter the real world and find that when they run into difficulty there wont be an over-the-hill, tarted up English teacher there to mollycoddle them and bail them out with another annotated essay that they could use. And what a shock it will be for them when they realise that prospective employers actually couldn't give a toss about their opinions on the opening sequence of Bladerunner...unless of course they're an English Head of Dep...and so it goes on...the vicious cycle of ignorance stupidity and pre-prepared essay writing.

It's a crying shame this farce has been allowed to go on as long as it has.

Mate i find it sad that u wasted your time typing up this 4000 word essay...either u r jealous of those students ur criticising or u well and truly stuffed up your english hsc.....hahaha u r a l*oser
 

thomas_hb

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Red Cordial said:
Mate i find it sad that u wasted your time typing up this 4000 word essay...either u r jealous of those students ur criticising or u well and truly stuffed up your english hsc.....hahaha u r a l*oser
I take it from your assualt upon the English language that you too, are a shit-for-brains dropkick.
And the fact that you question my motives in writing what i consider to be a normal body of text, and hinting at the fact that you think it's extensive, is further proof of the fact that you're surprised by someone who can actually formulate an opinion of their own and write about it...sadder than my rant is the bullshit you probably produced in the exam...same bullshit I did, but you were probably proud of it.
 
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ElGronko

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For the most part I agree.

The syllabus demands you write to a format, and basically conform to a certain school of thinking. For an obvious example, why do I have to say that studying 'The Tempest' has enlightened my knowledge of the imaginative journey? In all honestly, the only epiphany I have had is that the imaginative journey is a croquet of shit. It is an over analysis, a wild goose chase, creating something that does not exist (but hark! Is this not an imaginative journey in itself!). (No. Shut up.).

I personally believe that the most rewarding module in English is the 'Truth' module, as it really does open the minds of the weak to the idea of truth in the media. But lo, now all the people in agreement have identified different topics as the most useful, does this not mean that there is in fact merit in all the different topics?


With regards to experience of "the system" rewarding memorisation, nay, stupidity, i have an example of my own.

A student who shall not be named in my English class, a relatively high achiever, had moved to Australia only 2 to 3 years prior to our exams. At my school, as it is rather competitive it is not unusual for students to have some form of after school/weekend tutor. In fact, i would estimate that at least 90% of people would have had a tutor for some subject at some stage of schooling. Off the top of my head I can only think of 3 people, including myself who did not receive some sort of tutoring in our 6 years.

Anyway, after our class had both read our poem, and seen the film for our transformations module, a discussion was held in which the normal more vocal students, including myself, partook. It became quite in depth, and at about 20 minutes or so in, said student raised her hand. My ears pricked up! This normally silent, yet presumably intelligent-if-judged-by-her-marks, student was going to offer some rare input! This is what she proceeded to proclaim:

"The movie...it has a lot of things the same as the book..."

I waited in patience for the completion of her statement...a few seconds ticked on, I presumed this was merely an elongated pause for effect...as a couple more seconds passed, my presumptions changed to ponder the idea that she was in fact gathering her thoughts for the eloquent insight we were about to receive...but still nothing...it could not be that this was her full statement could it? Alas, with a crushing, mildly bewildered "yes" from the teacher, the uncomfortable silence that had accumulated was finally broken.

This was her input.

I was tempted to point out the fact that we were in fact aware of this as the Board of Studies had been kind enough inform us, the more canny students perhaps learning this through the modules name: TRANSFORMATIONS.

To say that I was bemused would be an understatement. I was frankly insulted that this poultry being was in fact ranked higher than me.

To this day I still wonder if in fact there was some kind of underlying, brilliant, deeper meaning to her statement, or if perhaps the marijuana was finally having a negative affect on my brain, and the brains of my comrades who joined me in my incredulous state.

What had happened was simple and I am sure, common. This student merely memorised the essays of her tutor or the like. Too bad if you rely on actual intelligence to succeed now days.

I can only hope that these people will one day die through not being able to evaluate the dangers of lighting a match in a highly gaseous environment, or are unable to compare and contrast the positives of adding sugar, as opposed to arsenic to your tea.

And with this, i bid you adieu.

If you are in agreement with me, one day our paths will cross, probably outside center link, as the real world has no apparent want for real intelligence.
 
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ElGronko

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Wow, that was long.

In fact, I am glad it is lengthy, as then only those who deserve to read it shall. Those too lazy to read it will not receive the joy and entertainment that they would otherwise have experienced.
 

nwatts

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Egronk said:
Wow, that was long.

In fact, I am glad it is lengthy, as then only those who deserve to read it shall. Those too lazy to read it will not receive the joy and entertainment that they would otherwise have experienced.
Haha.. I read it.

I laughed, more at how much of an elitist bastard you are than anything else. But I thought I wouldn't comment, because I feel similarly. :p I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing now.. really should get back to the history study.
 

ameradrian

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Egronk said:
Of the top of my head I can only think of 3 people, including myself who did not receive some sort of tutoring in our 6 years.
YEHAA IM ONE OF THEM!! haahah

PEOPLE WHO GET TUTORED - DESERVE TO DO SHIT
 

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Red Cordial said:
Mate i find it sad that u wasted your time typing up this 4000 word essay...either u r jealous of those students ur criticising or u well and truly stuffed up your english hsc.....hahaha u r a l*oser
Well I truly believe that you are a rude inconsiderate prick for not listening to other people’s opinions that are perfectly valid, in fact that are factual and need to be discussed. I would much rather that you use any intellect, i.e. if you have any, to make a comment as opposed to something that my 8 year old sister can type. From what I have read, she is smarter than you...
 

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Well well well what have we here? I have browsed over this thread and notice a few things.

thomas_hb has made his opinions about the english advanced course, which is understandable. Ranting can be a good way to relieve ones angers and annoyances over something. Many of you who have posted have been rather biast yourselves, attacking someone who had just come here to express themselves. Also the original poster of this thread has come back and insulted those whoi also in turn have expressed their views on the matter.

This thread has actually become everyone more or less just attacking each others oppinions, where people are just chucking insults at each other. Perhaps it is just the HSC stress in us all, as I know it is affecting everyone, but you should try respect and tolerate people oppinions :rolleyes:
 

ElGronko

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Originally Posted by Red Cordial
Mate i find it sad that u wasted your time typing up this 4000 word essay...either u r jealous of those students ur criticising or u well and truly stuffed up your english hsc.....hahaha u r a l*oser


Perhaps you realised that your petty insults only serve expose you for the fool you are.
 

thomas_hb

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Hear Hear....at least there exist a few people that havent been exposed to and thoroughly conditioned by English faculties state wide...
 

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