American and Australian Politics - Please explain? (1 Viewer)

[babydoll_]

OK, I just realised... I don't really get the whole political thing... as in what the main political parties represent in Australia and America. Like, what is the difference between Democrats and Republicans, Labor and Liberal etc.?

I also don't get this right-wing/left-wing thing - what does it mean? Somebody give me the lowdown.

 

[Ziff]

It's really quite complex.

In contemporary politics, the terms "left and right" in traditional terms don't really mean anything at all. Both the left and right misuse the terms "left" and "right" for their own political gains. Originally, the terms left and right were used in the first French republic after the revolution to describe the leanings of parties. To the right of the speaker were the aristrocrats and monarchs, to the left were the workers and commoners. (Note: The right was a sign of respect).

Over time the terminology of "right" and "left" has altered, but so has the political spectrum. You now have to look at things in terms of a social AND economic spectrum. So today a person can be right-wing in terms of economics (which espouses ideals of the free-market) but left in terms of social practises (which is generally "progressive" as opposed to the "conservative right". The "right" wish to maintain traditional values, traditonal beliefs, traditional "morals" and so on...). That is why generally the political spectrum now has an economic LEFT-RIGHT and a social LEFT-RIGHT scale...

So in contemporary politics, this is how it is considered:
The Liberal Party of Australia has Right leanings in both Social and Economic areas. They espouse the ideals of the free market BUT in terms of the social policies they want government control (e.g. Howard wanting to ban Gay marriage). The same applies for the Republican party of the USA, except, some people see them as being slightly left in terms of economics because they give subsidies to many military manufacturers and developers.

The Australian Labor Party is more left in terms of socially than the American Democrat party. Both parties, however, are what you would say is to the "right" in terms of economics. Both espouse a right slant (e.g. free market) in terms of economics. the ALP, however, also thinks that the government should have some regulatory impact over big business and the free market (some, not a lot) because they can't really be trusted. In social terms, they both think that people should be able to do whatever they want (e.g. abortion, gay marriage etc etc...)

 

[mervvyn]

Left wing/ Right wing:

Imagine the wings of a bird. The left wing tip is pure communism - total control by the govt, total equality in theory. The right wing tip is pure fascism - again, total control by the government, but private enterprise is allowed and power is purposely concentrated in the hands of a few leading in the national interest.
The wing tip analogy is show that they can be similar yet different, eg both require a stong military and nationalistic fervour to be workable.
The point of this is that left wing parties tend to favour the workers, with historical origins with unions and working classes in industrial slums of the Industrial Revolution.
Right wing parties on the other hand prefer freer enterprise and less government intervention, with less emphasis on wealth redistribution and state-provided services, and right wing governments are generally more conservative than leftist ones in social, poltical and economic terms.
However, the reality is that most of the dominant political parties in the Western democracies lies around the centre or slightly to the left or right of it. This means some, but not excessive government intervention, and some other stuff that i can't remember right now.

So, in Australia, the Labor Party is slightly to the left of centre, while the Liberal/National Parties are somewhat to the right. One Nation was more to the right than the libs, while the Greens and Democrats are more lefty than Labor.

In the US, the Democrats are the leftists, and the Republicans the right. I don't know about any other ones in the US though.

The general trend in recent years, I think, is towards more economically rational and somewhat socially conservative governments in the West, ie the rise of legitimate right wing parties in Europe and policy trends all over. However, there are a few strongly socialist countries, like the Scandinavian ones, whose strong welfare and infrastructure networks are paid for by hefty taxes. Ours is somewhat less strong, while the US is less still. (Make of that what you will) Obviously, every country is a mix of things, but that's a general picture.

I hope that all made sense and helped, sorry about the length.

 

[Ziff]

Democrats & Labor are right wing... meaning they're for the government having more control & 'assistance'.

Republicans & Liberals are left wing... they believe in setting up the country for people to make their own choices etc with less government involvement.

There's more to it than that.. .but i'm sure some guy like asquithian will talk for alot more.

Wrong...

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum for more details on what left and right mean.

As I said before, all sides misuse the terms "right" and "left" for their own political gain. Neither mean "bad" per se, they are only how you might think about things. I also like the idea of adding a social and ecomomic side to the left and right idea. People may think "free market" e.g. right but then at the same time also think the government should not have control of the social side (e.g. left). This is where problems come about.

As I said, read the site and also, do the quiz at www.politicalcompass.org as it will help you understand the difference between what "left" and "right" in poltical terms means...

 

[mervvyn]

I started typing before I saw Ziff's, so i didn't get to read it... that's a pretty good way of explaining things (and not just the "it's really quite complex" part )

 

[Ziff]

Left wing/ Right wing:

Imagine the wings of a bird. The left wing tip is pure communism - total control by the govt, total equality in theory. The right wing tip is pure fascism - again, total control by the government, but private enterprise is allowed and power is purposely concentrated in the hands of a few leading in the national interest.
The wing tip analogy is show that they can be similar yet different, eg both require a stong military and nationalistic fervour to be workable.
The point of this is that left wing parties tend to favour the workers, with historical origins with unions and working classes in industrial slums of the Industrial Revolution.
Right wing parties on the other hand prefer freer enterprise and less government intervention, with less emphasis on wealth redistribution and state-provided services, and right wing governments are generally more conservative than leftist ones in social, poltical and economic terms.
However, the reality is that most of the dominant political parties in the Western democracies lies around the centre or slightly to the left or right of it. This means some, but not excessive government intervention, and some other stuff that i can't remember right now.

So, in Australia, the Labor Party is slightly to the left of centre, while the Liberal/National Parties are somewhat to the right. One Nation was more to the right than the libs, while the Greens and Democrats are more lefty than Labor.

In the US, the Democrats are the leftists, and the Republicans the right. I don't know about any other ones in the US though.

The general trend in recent years, I think, is towards more economically rational and somewhat socially conservative governments in the West, ie the rise of legitimate right wing parties in Europe and policy trends all over. However, there are a few strongly socialist countries, like the Scandinavian ones, whose strong welfare and infrastructure networks are paid for by hefty taxes. Ours is somewhat less strong, while the US is less still. (Make of that what you will) Obviously, every country is a mix of things, but that's a general picture.

I hope that all made sense and helped, sorry about the length.

When using fascism and communism as an example for left and right remember this:

Stalin and Hitler were in theory at opposing sides. Stalin being LEFT and Hitler at the RIGHT. But! Socially they were similar - both authortarian in nature. Polticalcompass.org tells us that in theory, had economics (and nationalism!) not been an issue, Stalin and Hitler might have been best of mates (socially)...

Communism and Fascism are the absolute extremes of both sides of politics...

 

[babydoll_]

Thanks guys It helps to see an explanation written in plain English instead of political jargon. I don't mind the length, cheers

 

[mervvyn]

When using fascism and communism as an example for left and right remember this:

Stalin and Hitler were in theory at opposing sides. Stalin being LEFT and Hitler at the RIGHT. But! Socially they were similar - both authortarian in nature. Polticalcompass.org tells us that in theory, had economics (and nationalism!) not been an issue, Stalin and Hitler might have been best of mates (socially)...

Communism and Fascism are the absolute extremes of both sides of politics...

Yeah, I had that in mind, that was sort of my point with the whole bird wings thing - sometimes together, sometimes very apart.

 

[Ziff]

I should qualify that with: The Labor and Liberal parties in Australia are not FAR towards the left or right in any respect. In Australia the parties are both reasonably centrist, the only real difference is that Labor is slightly left in economics e.g. reckons that the government should regulate in some cases because corporations can't be trusted but more left in social terms as they think people should be able to do whatever they want free of the government (except they still have some government policies e.g. homosexuals that are still right)...

The Greens on the other hand are LEFT-LEFT. They want the government to control the economy completely AND they also say the government shouldn't control the social aspect at all...

 

[mic]

actually, the republicans and the liberals would be considered right wing...

Right-wing means more conservative, left-wing more progressive to put it crudely.
but one can be conservative in one aspect and more progressive in another, eg howard is a social conservative, but an economic progressive in the sense that he supports the free-markets.

anyway, a lot of the time these labels are meaningless.

but yes, go to www.politicalcompass.org to check out where you stand. there's links to where world leaders stand too

 

[Ziff]

actually, the republicans and the liberals would be considered right wing...

Right-wing means more conservative, left-wing more progressive to put it crudely.
but one can be conservative in one aspect and more progressive in another, eg howard is a social conservative, but an economic progressive in the sense that he supports the free-markets.

anyway, a lot of the time these labels are meaningless.

but yes, go to www.politicalcompass.org to check out where you stand. there's links to where world leaders stand too

Interestingly, Conservative and Right-Wing are not the same thing. At the moment, the Socialists (or "left") and the Conservative ("right" of Chirac) in France are in a Coalition together against the extreme right.

That's another thing, the "extreme right" is usually used to label those who have "fascist" style policies e.g. extreme nationalism and extreme racism - One Nation party or the Nazi party...

 

[thorrnydevil]

very General Guide

Republicans - are Liberals in Australia

Democrats - Labor/Greens/Democrats in Aus

Both American parties are right wing and well so are the major parties in Australia...

I'm glad you said that actually. The American Democrats, although they claim to be for the workers, hence being Left-wing, are actually exactly the same as the Republicans, who are Right-wing, in many aspects of policy and genral ideas.

To see what I mean, read Michael Moores "Stupid White Men." Although he is left-wing, his books and movies are really good and open your eyes to alot of what is usually left behind closed doors. I'd reccommend it to everyone.

 

[thorrnydevil]

the point is that there isnt very many true left wing parties...

Both the ALP and the liberals are right wing...its just the ALp is more moderate right wing...some people...like myself...feel that the liberals are going a bit extreme to the right

I tend to agree with you on a certain level. I think Howard, although he is a great PM has steered the Liberal Party to far to the right, however, there are still many moderates, eg. Costello.