Australian holocaust denier arrested (1 Viewer)

Nebuchanezzar

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http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/australian-holocaust-denier-arrested/2008/10/02/1222651205020.html

www.smh.com.au said:
Australian Holocaust revisionist Gerald Fredrick Toben has been remanded in custody and faces extradition to Germany and a possible five-year jail term after being arrested at Heathrow Airport in London yesterday in dramatic circumstances.

Toben had just boarded a flight to Dubai after arriving from the United States just before midday, London time, when he was arrested on a European warrant for continuing to publish anti-semitic material on his website, the Adelaide Institute. He apparently tried to avoid police by changing seats.

The retired 64-year-old former school teacher, who has previously spent time in a German prison for the same offence, told a special hearing of the Westminster Magistrate's Court later in the day that he was a "victim of legal persecution".

"It's a witch trial mentality in Germany, which is not the case in England yet," he said, adding that he faced jail in Australia because of his continuing to publish material despite a Federal Court gag order. "I can't run anywhere - the world is my prison."

But the plea fell on deaf ears. District Judge Nicholas Evans refused Toben bail and he was remanded in custody until another extradition hearing on Friday.

Toben set up the Adelaide Institute in 1994 to spread his theories denying the Holocaust. He spent seven months in a German prison in 1999 for inciting racism before being granted bail and heading back to Australia, where in 2002 he was ordered to cease his activities.

But he continued, claiming on the website: "If you wish to begin to doubt the Holocaust-Shoah narrative, you must be prepared for personal sacrifice, must be prepared for marriage and family break-up, loss of career, and go to prison."

Last year the former president of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, Jeremy Jones, asked the Federal Court to jail Toben for breaching the order.

Two years ago, he attended a conference hosted by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Tehran in 2006, during which he gave a speech calling for evidence of the Nazi gas chambers, "the products of a feverish pathological mind filled with pure hatred, mostly directed against Germans and anything German ... the product of an appalling state of ignorance of natural and chemical processes".

The EU warrant for Mr Toben's arrest was issued by Germany, and reads: "From 2002 to this day the worldwide, internet publication of an anti-Semitic and, or, revisionist nature deliberately contrary to historical truth the said publications deny, approve or play down above all the mass murder of the Jews, planned and implemented, by the national socialist rulers."

If he is extradited to Germany, Toben faces charges of publishing material on the internet of "an anti-semitic and/or revisionist nature that denies, approves of or plays down" the mass murder of Jews by the Nazi regime, the court was told.

Tina Whybrow, lawyer for District Court of Mannheim, said Mr Toben was accused of computer-related crime and racism and xenophobia: "This is a serious offence, the penalty for this offence is up to five years' (imprisonment)," she said.
um, wut? So there are laws against one type of racism now? Damn Jews.
 

Iron

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Captured and locked up by the Germans. Justice served
 

chicky_pie

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Remember, only in Iran you can be a holocaust denier and talk about freely, (I think they had some kind of conference before) and avoid getting arrested for it.
 

jb_nc

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chicky_pie said:
Remember, only in Iran you can be a holocaust denier and talk about freely, (I think they had some kind of conference before) and avoid getting arrested for it.
Nah you can do it in America too
 

Nebuchanezzar

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Should be able to do it anywhere. Bias in the law! Mutiny! Mutiny! The Jews have overtaken justice!
 

Iron

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Really? I'd agree that it's serious enough to crack down on. It was, like, the most horrifying thing we've ever done to eachother. To say it never happened is the first step towards it happening again!
 

bigboyjames

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Iron said:
Really? I'd agree that it's serious enough to crack down on. It was, like, the most horrifying thing we've ever done to eachother. To say it never happened is the first step towards it happening again!
your kidding right? so this guy was going start another holocaust? try harder iron.
 

Iron

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Yes because the premise is that we can be nasty to different people, like the Nazis were, and nothing very bad will ever come of it.
The holocaust sent shockwaves around the world and started the ball rolling on ending all sorts of rubbish discriminations. It is the nightmare which sparked the (secular) campaign for universal human rights.
 

Nebuchanezzar

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Iron said:
Really? I'd agree that it's serious enough to crack down on. It was, like, the most horrifying thing we've ever done to eachother. To say it never happened is the first step towards it happening again!
I don't think that free speech ought to be curbed in order to prevent an impossibility.

FUCKING JEWS!
 
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xeuyrawp

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Iron said:
Really? I'd agree that it's serious enough to crack down on. It was, like, the most horrifying thing we've ever done to eachother. To say it never happened is the first step towards it happening again!
Jesus fucking Christ.

I can't believe you think that's just.

I agree that historical revisionism is very, very dangerous, but that's why blogosphere warriors like me are around.

To simply condone punishment for it is ridiculously flawed because you're saying 'there can be no argument here'. In the end, it's persuasion by the means of academic arguments which settle these things, not by throwing the offenders in gaol. By simply silencing them, you're creating animosity and more nutcases like him, as well as killing any chance of actually finalising (as much as one can) the issue through proper debate.
 

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Europe has moved closer towards Socialism.

By locking up someone because he questions the Holocaust sets a dangerous precedent.
 

bigboyjames

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Iron said:
Yes because the premise is that we can be nasty to different people, like the Nazis were, and nothing very bad will ever come of it.
The holocaust sent shockwaves around the world and started the ball rolling on ending all sorts of rubbish discriminations. It is the nightmare which sparked the (secular) campaign for universal human rights.
wtf? if i deny the holocaust you actually think i should be in prison?
 

Iron

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But it's TOOO damaging. We dont persuade murderors or rapists to desist through academic arguments. There's a point where one becomes too poisonous for society to accomodate.

There is no freedom to abuse, to stir up hatred, to make or publish treasonable, libellous, obscene and blasphemous utterance. The law of sedition is crucial to conserving all our noble institutions. But the fact is, not that our society believes in freedom of speech and assembly, but rather that it is afraid to announce its disbelief! Nerve, hopelessly lost. Contours of a tragic age and all that
 

zstar

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Iron said:
But it's TOOO damaging. We dont persuade murderors or rapists to desist through academic arguments. There's a point where one becomes too poisonous for society to accomodate.

There is no freedom to abuse, to stir up hatred, to make or publish treasonable, libellous, obscene and blasphemous utterance. The law of sedition is crucial to conserving all our noble institutions. But the fact is, not that our society believes in freedom of speech and assembly, but rather that it is afraid to announce its disbelief! Nerve, hopelessly lost. Contours of a tragic age and all that

I disagree.


If a person wants to say what he wants to say then he should be able to say it. Why should he have to hide it?


In fact it's better if he admits it out of the open rather than keep it bottled up where he/she is a potential ticking time bomb.
 

Iron

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Ok, lets just expose our whole fleshy pink fabric of society to you, you WOLVES who would tear into it in the name of your precious freedom.
You wreckers, you hyenas, you selfish cunts, you godless dogs
Defending lions like me are few and far between. The future is bleak
I am cynical
 

staticsiscool

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I'd have to disagree about it being the worst thing we have ever done to each other, Ghengis khan did some pretty nasty shit. During his attempted conquest of China, the population went from 120million to 60million. Also reduced the population of persia from 2.5million to 250000.
 

Iron

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Well we can argue scale and whatnot - Stalin killed far more people - but in terms of a modern civilized country turning neutral science to the work of incomprehensible hate against the weak... I mean, there was something uniquely alarming about how modern, rational, scientific method could so so easily dominate and destroy us. It was almost the logical conclusion of our increased alienation from our environment since the industrical revolution. Dehumanization, 'statistics', the denial of truth, unleashed evil... I suppose the Khan has some pretty fast horsies, but it doesnt compare to me
 

bigboyjames

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decrease in number of conflicts won't necessarily be so good on the mother planet. It needs to relieve itself of the human parasites by making sure that fights, diseases etc keep our numbers in check.
 
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xeuyrawp

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Iron said:
But it's TOOO damaging. We dont persuade murderors or rapists to desist through academic arguments. There's a point where one becomes too poisonous for society to accomodate.
What we do to murderers and rapists has nothing to do with them being poisonous - it's to do with them causing a definite amount of harm to specific individuals.

It would be fine if a certain group stood up and said 'this guy is harming us, so we're taking him to court'. But simply removing freedom of speech before it's been established that actual harm is being caused?
 

Iron

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Merely allowing the disemination of such speech IS the actual harm. It signals that 'hey' they may have a point there. What say you, jews? Go on, fight, fight FIGHT. No comeback EH? Well, looks like they were right after all. It WAS a mad jewish conspiracy to reclaim Zion. Maybe I should form a political movement to address these issues - put an end to the filth. Maybe Israel should be abandoned to the butchery of their neighbours - I mean, it's the right of the strong to destroy the weak, surely. If Israel cant defend herself, then WELL, I guess she was wrong to be there. Maybe we should just bomb the Russians and get it all over with - 10-20 million killed - TOPS - err depending on the brakes. Modest and acceptable civilian casualties
 

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