Che: Freedom Fighter? (1 Viewer)

Joined
Sep 17, 2005
Messages
25
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
Che Guevara is undeniably a figure now for freedom and revolution. He is revered by many the world over for his attacks on the establishment. He was utterly non-mainstream and was a person of the pleb.

Or was he?

I believe that only now is he seen as this freedom figure because of hopeless romantics who missed out on vital and small details of his campaigns. These same romantics will openly criticise Adolf Hitler for his enprisonment and killing of innocent people.

Let me get this out of the way first. Adolf Hitlers actions occurred on a much larger, more demonstrative scale than Che, however a comparison can still be made here.

Now, why was Che not a freedom fighter?

Firstly, I will adress an odd contradiction. In one of Che's many psuedo-documentaries The Motor Cycle Diaries Che is painted as someone who cared for the sick and cripples. This is especially illustrated when he stayed in Peru at a leper colony for a long period of time to help the lepers. He was portrayed to love these sick people like one would love a brother. Now I will bring you into reality and away from a silly little movie. In Cuba, where Che helped the Castro brothers get into power, Che was responsible for manual labour camps that somewhat resembled the concentration camps of WWII. These camps, although less killing took place, was the home to law breakers, supposed dissidents and even the ill and crippled. Wow, now that certainly goes against the Motor Cycle Diaries, doesnt it?

The imprisonment of the sick, hmm, that doesnt sound like an advocate of freedom, like Nelson Mandela, but more like a iron fisted dictator, oh say, Adolf Hitler.

Not only did he imprison dissidents but he also killed them by a firing squad, the favoured technique of those friendly Indonesian chaps across the way. Now, to use a rather crude form of execution (Heck, any isn't an action of an advocate of freedom) that the freedom loving nation of Indonesia employs on its WORST CRIMINALS on someone who merely shows a disagreement of beliefs to the party! Crikey, thats a real act of a freedom lover, call those that disagree with you instead of giving them a say. Now of course some of the dissenters did more than disagree with the partyline but the point here is that Che introduced the firing squad to be used on these people.

A firing squad, used by the Indonesians, and labour camps, used by the Nazi's. Somewhere along the line here I have lost the freedom part, so I will move on to find a central focus point in the arguements of these Che supporters.

A claim often extolled by Che supporters is his affect on political awareness in Universities in Sth. America. This is suprising considering that Che's legacy in Sth. American universities boils down to that he was partially responsible for the decrease in the education rate and overall standard of living of these people, at that present stage and in their future. Che inspired thousands of these students to leave uni and start their own Guerilla fighting group, to fight for freedom against the government of their respective country. What happened henceforth was that government military and militia groups would lose huge numbers in a pointless struggle. The govt. would invariably not be toppled and the militia would invariably never run out of soldiers. The process of Guerilla fighting has delayed Sth. American democracy by decades and only now are some of its countries beginning to see brighter days, eg. Chile is now a stable democracy. The dropping out of the students lowered the education rate, increased crime and decreased standard of living. Che really inspired some freedom for the people here!

And finally in his last campaign for freedom Che led 26 fighters in Bolivia to fight Guerilla warfare. Although he still maintained it was to fight for freedom he led middle to upper class fighters for freedom, not the hero of the Marxist, the proletariat. Among his men were a doctor, a dentist and an artist, men who would have been more useful to the proles giving them check-ups, fixing teeth and well, painting. Che and his band of fighters failed miserably and were captured and executed.

This man who stood for freedom was nothing but a phony in this regard. He may have inspired people to fight for freedom, however he cetainly did not practice as he preached, which is important for a figure head of an ideology to do.

To the admin, if this isnt in the right board please correct me as to where it should be located and I will post it there instead. I figured it didnt fit under News or Current Affairs but as Che was a political figure it was good for Politics.
 

spell check

Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
842
Gender
Male
HSC
1998
i suggest you research the history of the world, in particular the british empire, the colonisation of latin america, africa and also australia, world wars one and two, vietnam, the CIA backing of guerrillas and violent dictators in countries like Chile and Cuba etc before you make the claim that Che is particularly bad because he used violence to achieve his ends
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2005
Messages
25
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
Please find for me when I said he was bad for using violence

I never said that and that wasnt my aim. If you have read my comments on "Heil Hitler" in the Modern History section you will know I am pro-War and pro-Violent solutions to acheive ends.

What my point about Che is that he is seen as a freedom fighter when he used violent means to acheive his ends, which contradicts the romantic appeal of his legacy.

However, if you can find the spot where I claimed he was bad for using violence then I will be duely humbled for my mistake
 

erawamai

Retired. Gone fishing.
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
1,456
Location
-
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2002
King of Helview said:
However, if you can find the spot where I claimed he was bad for using violence then I will be duely humbled for my mistake
king of whatever said:
Che inspired thousands of these students to leave uni and start their own Guerilla fighting group, to fight for freedom against the government of their respective country. What happened henceforth was that government military and militia groups would lose huge numbers in a pointless struggle. The govt. would invariably not be toppled and the militia would invariably never run out of soldiers. The process of Guerilla fighting has delayed Sth. American democracy by decades and only now are some of its countries beginning to see brighter days, eg. Chile is now a stable democracy"
Unless I'm mistaken guerilla groups do not stand around picking pineapples. They employ voilent means. You accuse them of delaying Sth american democracy by decades. I believe this is a bad thing.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 17, 2005
Messages
25
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
This all comes back to Che being seen as a figure of freedom. I am not condemning Che for using or inspiring violent means but merely commenting that because of him the freedom these people would have enjoyed under democracy was set back. Hence, this isnt a thing a lover of freedom would do. Again, if you take the time to analyse that comment in relation to the entire post and the themes running through it it can be easily seen that I didnt condemn him
 

erawamai

Retired. Gone fishing.
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
1,456
Location
-
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2002
King of Helview said:
However, if you can find the spot where I claimed he was bad for using violence then I will be duely humbled for my mistake
king of whatever said:
Che inspired thousands of these students to leave uni and start their own Guerilla fighting group, to fight for freedom against the government of their respective country. What happened henceforth was that government military and militia groups would lose huge numbers in a pointless struggle. The govt. would invariably not be toppled and the militia would invariably never run out of soldiers. The process of Guerilla fighting has delayed Sth. American democracy by decades and only now are some of its countries beginning to see brighter days, eg. Chile is now a stable democracy"
Che inspired Guerilla fighters who I presume use voilence = delayed South American democracy = Bad

You said it.
 

loquasagacious

NCAP Mooderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
3,636
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2004
I'd suggest the search function and appending this diatribe to the existing che Guevara hero/Villain thread.....
 
X

xeuyrawp

Guest
God. Che. If I never have to mark another extension history paper about him, I'm going to be a happy man.

That being said, Che has been turned into a legend from his original status of man. He's been absorbed into pop-culture, and most people take his fighting as a fight against the establishment. It's silly, really.
 

withoutaface

Premium Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
15,098
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
Che is a despicable human being, but what's worse is the whole pop culture surrounding him.
 
X

xeuyrawp

Guest
withoutaface said:
Che is a despicable human being, but what's worse is the whole pop culture surrounding him.
Thankyou.

Also, why have you changed your sig? I believe it had something to do with 'Vote [1] CHOICE' or something?
 

erawamai

Retired. Gone fishing.
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
1,456
Location
-
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2002
PwarYuex is right. He has been adopted by anyone who is against the establishment. Ask a person who wheres a che shirt about che and I don't think many would know.

Personally I don't know heaps about him. As such I'd never wear a shirt with him on it.

As for Ext history. I wouldnt have thought that many people did theirs on che?
 

withoutaface

Premium Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
15,098
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
PwarYuex said:
Thankyou.

Also, why have you changed your sig? I believe it had something to do with 'Vote [1] CHOICE' or something?
CHOICE is the main Liberal ticket, but ESC is the bogus "steal preferences from the left" ticket I'm heading.
 
X

xeuyrawp

Guest
erawamai said:
PwarYuex is right. He has been adopted by anyone who is against the establishment. Ask a person who wheres a che shirt about che and I don't think many would know.

Personally I don't know heaps about him. As such I'd never wear a shirt with him on it.
I'll be honest and say that I've never done any research into him, and all I really know about him is what I've read in the ext. history essays, but it seems his image has really been changed.

The lack of contemporary documentation about him has collided with the huge amount of his own diaries and diaries from within his camp. I would forward that he's just a mad arch-reactionary.
 

Comrade nathan

Active Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Messages
1,170
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2004
You do realise that the PFLP and other similair groups ideology is central to Che's idea about the new human in a socialist state? He does have an impact outside the western liberal angst teenagers.
 

loquasagacious

NCAP Mooderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
3,636
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2004
From what I've seen a picture emerges of a Che motivated by good intentions, lionised by the left, demonised by the right and cast as hero-of-angst by pop-culture.

In the end a large part of his profile stems quite simply from 'that' photo. As an interesting note smirnoff even tried to put it on a bottle of vodka. The photographer blocked the move as Che was a vehement non-alcoholic.
 

loquasagacious

NCAP Mooderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
3,636
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2004
The marvels of moral absolutism versus moral relativism.

Personally I believe that violent action just like anything can be justified - IF the payoff is sufficient. IF the benefit accrued by it outweighs the cost associated with it.

I guess thats the part of the economic system that discex blindly ascribes to that he doesn't necasserily like.....
 
X

xeuyrawp

Guest
playboy2njoy said:
You are all quick to say "he is made popular by pop culture", but it is NOT THIS that makes him famous. NONE OF YOU LIVED IN SOUTH AMERICA DURING 1940-80 WHEN SOUTH AMERICA WAS OVERRUN BY CORRUPT, INADEQUATE GOVERNMENTS. I come from an Argentine family, where many of my relatives have experienced the hardships of living in this period. Che stood up against capitalist, American-run Cuba, and freed that country from the shit that occupied its government. So don't jump to conclusions about his popularity, because none of you experienced this first-hand.
Couldn't you just present your point of view, provide your credentials, and move on, rather than prove that Che has turned into such a 'small man vs big military'?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top