• YOU can help the next generation of students in the community!
    Share your trial papers and notes on our Notes & Resources page

Cheating (1 Viewer)

sikeveo

back after sem2
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Messages
1,794
Location
North Shore
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
What's to stop a person handing in a major work that had scored highly in last years hsc? E.g. a friends?

I dont do EE2, but am just curious as it seems a little dodgy.
 

fleepbasding

HSC TUTOR
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
1,134
Location
Sydney- Inner West
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
sikeveo said:
What's to stop a person handing in a major work that had scored highly in last years hsc? E.g. a friends?

I dont do EE2, but am just curious as it seems a little dodgy.
damn! Why didn't I think of that!
 

YBK

w00t! custom status!! :D
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
1,240
Location
47 |)35|< !!!
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
sikeveo said:
What's to stop a person handing in a major work that had scored highly in last years hsc? E.g. a friends?

I dont do EE2, but am just curious as it seems a little dodgy.
I thought of something like that too.... wtf
 

kami

An iron homily
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
4,265
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Exactly what PerfectbyNature said. There is a record kept of the Major Works - in fact considering the small candidature thats why it takes them so long to mark the work, they have to ratify them first. It should also be noted that this happens across subject, ie a student cannot submit the same or similar works for Drama, Visual Arts and Extension 2 English etc.
It should also be noted that there are journals to refer to with the main purpose of these being to prove to the marker that *we* have created the work.
 

c_james

Viva La Merchandise!
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
512
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
sikeveo said:
What's to stop a person handing in a major work that had scored highly in last years hsc? E.g. a friends?

I dont do EE2, but am just curious as it seems a little dodgy.
Forget that; the really disturbing cheats are the ones who pay people to create "their" major work.

261 students did this in 2004. That figure is staggering considering EE2 has a candidature of about 2200, fluctuating slightly each year. That's about 11% of 2004's candidature.

Honestly, I don't know how people who do that can live with themselves. It's as if they didn't develop a conscience or something. Or maybe I'm just an idealistic fool.

http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?t=74770
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
7,986
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
I don't really get it either. :( I sincerly hope they get nightmares about it, because "faking" a creative writing piece (or any form of art) is just really low, really stupid and incredibly disrespectful to one's fellow artists and the artistic industry in general.

You always kind of hope that the higher extensions are a sort of haven for the people the genuinely try their best... but no :( For the rest of us, your work is still valuable and the lessons you learnt from the writing process is the REAL reward! So good on you!
 
X

xeuyrawp

Guest
Although markers are not immediately allowed to consult journals, the journal arrives on their desk with the work. Just by looking at a journal, they can tell whether you've done work.

Although you could carry it around, write in it, stick shit in etc (so it looks all good) I doubt any lazy students do that- most of the lazy student's look nice, new, thin and clean.

If a student has taken some of the work and written some, it's obvious as pie. Can I just emphasise that plagiarism is really obvious. Sentence structure changes, the use of a comma changes. Seriously, I've looked at a major work (history) and this one bit of a paragraph just looked odd. It's hard to explain but it's like you're speaking to someone who just changed their accent. The flow fucks up somehow.

Same thing happens with the EE2 mws, although fully-stolen writing would be harder to see.

Like all other subjects, markers are experienced and have done the rounds. If they're not, they've been supervised like hell and have really only taken a observatory role. With EE2, I would forward that every marker has seen (if not read) most works from their genre area. The supervisors read every single work from their genre, and that's a fact.

With the journals- if the marker gets a hint of foul play, they stick their hand up and get the journal/s + mw up to the supervisor marker and tell them that something's odd. The supervisor then gives them permission to look in the journal, or does it themselves. I suppose this could be an argument against journals being persued, although I would say that it shows how easily an experienced English marker can see this.

I'll add at this point that I'm only marking things to do with New Kingdom Egypt, which I've done a tonne of study in. EE2 markers are FAR more experienced than me:p
 

drewgcn

postpantsism
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
337
Location
Oatley...land of oats.
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
c_james said:
Forget that; the really disturbing cheats are the ones who pay people to create "their" major work.

261 students did this in 2004. That figure is staggering considering EE2 has a candidature of about 2200, fluctuating slightly each year. That's about 11% of 2004's candidature.
That almost turned me off choosing the course this year to be honest.
Say 11% pay someone to write their MW for them, that would mean that at least half of those would be receiving a top band (given that they did actually pay someone to produce theirs), making it almost doubly as hard to receive a good mark in comparison.
 
X

xeuyrawp

Guest
drewgcn said:
That almost turned me off choosing the course this year to be honest.
Say 11% pay someone to write their MW for them, that would mean that at least half of those would be receiving a top band (given that they did actually pay someone to produce theirs), making it almost doubly as hard to receive a good mark in comparison.
You're forgetting something rather important there...
 

gorgo31

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
218
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
The cheating news did piss me off, yes.

But what it came down to for me, ultimately, was whether or not I was confident enough in myself to submit a major work to be judged on its merits and that alone. If you are producing a work which you don't feel confident about having that done, don't do this subject.

Of course, if 10% of the candidature were to cheat, you might not get the top mark. Then again, you might. It's impossible to know these things; especially now it's been "busted", how many fake works will still be slipping through the cracks? Essentially, if you feel that your work is good enough to get a good mark, and that you've done the hard yards with your process, you shouldn't worry.

This really is nonsensical rambling, I'm sorry. I'm attempting, poorly, to convey that although cheating happens, and will happen in every subject (though perhaps not as overtly), any individual can rise above it. In my idealistic opinion, that is :)
 
X

xeuyrawp

Guest
gorgo31 said:
That's a good thing, isn't it?
Yeah, but I think people are saying '10% don't even write their own work! how can I compete with that?' when that 10% actually get a zero mark for the major work, and unless you've gotten over 50 internally (impossible), they've failed the entire course.
 

fleepbasding

HSC TUTOR
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
1,134
Location
Sydney- Inner West
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
PwarYuex said:
Yeah, but I think people are saying '10% don't even write their own work! how can I compete with that?' when that 10% actually get a zero mark for the major work, and unless you've gotten over 50 internally (impossible), they've failed the entire course.
but didn't the cheaters actually make it through the system with a mark and all that? I thought the cheating was only uncovered this year. Have the cheaters marks been retrospectively taken away for ext 2 english?
 

gorgo31

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
218
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
PwarYuex said:
Yeah, but I think people are saying '10% don't even write their own work! how can I compete with that?' when that 10% actually get a zero mark for the major work, and unless you've gotten over 50 internally (impossible), they've failed the entire course.
Yeah, I getchya.

I agree too. I don't think the cheating is a hugely valid reason to be put-off the subject.

History Extension on the other hand - that's a different ball game :)
 

gorgo31

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
218
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
fleepbasding said:
but didn't the cheaters actually make it through the system with a mark and all that? I thought the cheating was only uncovered this year. Have the cheaters marks been retrospectively taken away for ext 2 english?
"Investigations" was the last official word, I think, unless someone knows anything else? I'm not sure if they actually did strip anyone of their HSC marks, but it was suggested at one point in time.
 

PerfectByNature

I am Jack's wasted life
Joined
May 6, 2005
Messages
1,406
Location
The Gong
Gender
Female
HSC
2005
PwarYuex said:
Although markers are not immediately allowed to consult journals, the journal arrives on their desk with the work. Just by looking at a journal, they can tell whether you've done work.

Although you could carry it around, write in it, stick shit in etc (so it looks all good) I doubt any lazy students do that- most of the lazy student's look nice, new, thin and clean.

If a student has taken some of the work and written some, it's obvious as pie. Can I just emphasise that plagiarism is really obvious. Sentence structure changes, the use of a comma changes. Seriously, I've looked at a major work (history) and this one bit of a paragraph just looked odd. It's hard to explain but it's like you're speaking to someone who just changed their accent. The flow fucks up somehow.

Same thing happens with the EE2 mws, although fully-stolen writing would be harder to see.

Like all other subjects, markers are experienced and have done the rounds. If they're not, they've been supervised like hell and have really only taken a observatory role. With EE2, I would forward that every marker has seen (if not read) most works from their genre area. The supervisors read every single work from their genre, and that's a fact.

With the journals- if the marker gets a hint of foul play, they stick their hand up and get the journal/s + mw up to the supervisor marker and tell them that something's odd. The supervisor then gives them permission to look in the journal, or does it themselves. I suppose this could be an argument against journals being persued, although I would say that it shows how easily an experienced English marker can see this.

I'll add at this point that I'm only marking things to do with New Kingdom Egypt, which I've done a tonne of study in. EE2 markers are FAR more experienced than me:p
my journal was bloody stuffed! our teacher had the best idea, she made us do 10 pages every 2 weeks... if she hadnt mine would have been a whole lot smaller...
i dont think i could have lived with myself if i had cheated on mine... like, made someone else do the work or copied from somewhere else.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top