Did you know.....Arab-Israel conflict (3 Viewers)

[zahid]

Did you know that British are the one who started the whole Palestine-Israel conflict at the first place? Once upon a time British were ruling that part of the world, at that time it was called Palestine and right after the second world war suddenly all those holocaust survivor with no where to go started arriving in that region. British didn’t like that at all but they didn’t have the energy to fight the Jewish guerrillas after having just lost the British Empire so they just bagged the place and said, ‘Fine you want this? It’s yours’ Most Arabs residents were not consulted with this deal.

Then of course, America fuelled Israel ever since. Israel gets 3 Million dollar every year from United States. 3 Million Dollar? I wonder what service do they get in return, Has to be one hell of a blowjob right?

So if you are a US tax payer, your money is contributing to that 3 million dollar which is buying those Israelis bullets to kill Palestinians women and children.

I never understood why Israel was a gift to those Holocaust survivors? I mean who wants to go to Middle East? Its all desert and its hot and dusty right?

If we had really wanted to do what was right and punish the German, we should have given the state of Bavaria of Germany to those survivors. Now that’s a one beautiful piece of real estate, This is where they make their Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi and Porsche. That piece of land German wouldn’t give it to anyone, let alone those jewish.

I consider myself as anti-Semitic not because I am Muslim but because I know how manipulative those motherfuckers can be. However, I feel sorry for those 6 million innocent unarmed people are killed in the second world war and Germany (Deutschland) didn’t pay for the price.

Today average German factory worker made an average wage $29 per hour compare to United States, $19 per hour. What’s more, Germany is 25 times smaller in size than the United States and has one third fewer workers; its gross domestic product per capita is nearly as that of the United States. How is that possible? Just because they make all the flash cars in the world?

Zahid

 

[funky_a]

You know, all this sounds a little familiar despite the fact I just done this topic in the HSC 4 months ago. But yeah, you're argument really does sound like one side of the debates that goes on in my Modern History class... Interesting.

 

[Grobus]

Tensions already exsisted in the Ottoman empire before it collapsed. I think the region would be a political hotspot even if the British didnt do what they did. (and of course everything else that went into creating Israel)

 

[berghousemaa]

Tensions already exsisted in the Ottoman empire before it collapsed. I think the region would be a political hotspot even if the British didnt do what they did. (and of course everything else that went into creating Israel)

The Ottoman Empire collapsed after WWI, The Arab world was then divided up between British and French mandates.
When the Poms pulled out they didn't give the country to anyone they just siad basicaly it's up for grabs. The Poms actually favoured the Palestinians. The Jews took control using teh same tactics the Palestinians use nowadays.

And the reason the Jews took Palestine and not say Germany is because it is their traditional homeland and most people at that time still preferred a Nazi to a Jew.

There are basically three classes of Jews. Ashkenazi, those Jews from Germany and East until Russia, the Sephardic Jews who are the elite from Spain and Morocco and the last are the real Semetic Jews, those of Arab appearance.
Those Semetic Jews are marganilised as much as the rest of the Arab population.

What annoys me is how at any criticism of Israel, they throw the holocaust in your face. The Armenian people haven't been going on about their genocide looking for handouts and they experienced a genocide at the hands of the Ottoman Empire.

 

[mr EaZy]

I consider myself as anti-Semitic not because I am Muslim but because I know how manipulative those motherfuckers can be. However, I feel sorry for those 6 million innocent unarmed people are killed in the second world war and Germany (Deutschland) didn’t pay for the price.

Zahid

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to zahid again.


thanks for your honesty Zahid

 

[mr EaZy]

in that case, wouldnt you be anti-zionist?

coz i know some jews who feel the same way!

 

[joujou_84]

there are jews (my friend is one of them) who believe that taking palestine was wrong of the jews...in their belief (and as mentioned in the quran) the jews must rome the earth for the rest of their lives and live all scattered around as a punishment for disobeying moses and taking the calf as a god. so in order to achieve gods forgivness they have to be scattered all over the place....and never return to jerusalem. i dunno exactly wat theyre called though..i forgot....anyway just thought id mention that not all jews accept the situation in palestine and actually aid the palestinians against the israeli government.

edit: is that wat theyre called mr easy? anti-zionists....or are they something else?

 

[berghousemaa]

Yes anit-zionist id the correct word.
Semite is the word for people from the area of teh Christian Kingdom of Jerusealum in the Crusades. Many people we callArabs are catually Semites and only a handful of Jews are Semetic. And as previously stated, these Semetic Jews are as much maligned as the Islamic Arabs.

This however is like the situation regarding the word decimation. Current usage takes over the real meaning.

Regardless, Anti-Zionist refers to the actionm taken by the Israeli Jews against the Arab world
Anti-Semitic refers to a racist attitude against Jews in today's vernacular.

 

[Grobus]

The Ottoman Empire collapsed after WWI, The Arab world was then divided up between British and French mandates.
When the Poms pulled out they didn't give the country to anyone they just siad basicaly it's up for grabs. The Poms actually favoured the Palestinians. The Jews took control using teh same tactics the Palestinians use nowadays.

And the reason the Jews took Palestine and not say Germany is because it is their traditional homeland and most people at that time still preferred a Nazi to a Jew.

There are basically three classes of Jews. Ashkenazi, those Jews from Germany and East until Russia, the Sephardic Jews who are the elite from Spain and Morocco and the last are the real Semetic Jews, those of Arab appearance.
Those Semetic Jews are marganilised as much as the rest of the Arab population.

What annoys me is how at any criticism of Israel, they throw the holocaust in your face. The Armenian people haven't been going on about their genocide looking for handouts and they experienced a genocide at the hands of the Ottoman Empire.

Thats not the point Im making. If you look at the history of the region before WW1, you find its a place already filled with disunity and political conflict. Its not like it would have been a peaceful, stable place if the British had just left them alone.

 

[mr EaZy]

Thats not the point Im making. If you look at the history of the region before WW1, you find its a place already filled with disunity and political conflict. Its not like it would have been a peaceful, stable place if the British had just left them alone.

yeah thats true.
the british had tried to undermine the ottomans for a long time through their bases in Egypt and india.

the Sultan at the time (the last one) who ruled for a short time, was smart, he built the hijaz railway to unite the furthest outposts and cities to one another. During WWI, the british destroyed that railway line (i think)

also, during british rule, the zionists bombed up several brit interests. lots of jews were also killed (a price worth paying ? ) but the whole aim was to weaken british rule and allow for the people to take things in their own hands.

 

[berghousemaa]

Thats not the point Im making. If you look at the history of the region before WW1, you find its a place already filled with disunity and political conflict. Its not like it would have been a peaceful, stable place if the British had just left them alone.

Yeah it is similiar to the Balkans in thta way. During WWI The Ottoman Empire attempted genocide against 3 different cultures. The Armenians, Assyrians, adn Pontian Greeks constituting millions of deaths. The Turks still deny this though there is much evidence to the contrary.

In relation to why the Zionist movement chose Palestine.
Numerous othe sites were suggested. Rwanda, and parts of Argentina were all seriously suggested. Stalin actually established an independant Jewish state near the Chinese border but this harsh terrain was overlooked by Jews for good reasons. Many claimed that the USA was Zion beacuse of its supposedly good natured approach to Jews.

Palestine was chosen almost wholly beacuse it was their traditional homeland and they overlooked the native Arabs, thinking them as not an obstacle, preferring rather to focus on Britain and France.

 

[Grobus]

Yea exactly. I even read that they were offered part of Australia in my old textbook but I havent seen it anywhere else so I dont know how much to trust it.

 

[berghousemaa]

Yea exactly. I even read that they were offered part of Australia in my old textbook but I havent seen it anywhere else so I dont know how much to trust it.

Your textbook is lying.
Australia was never considered in a serious manner. Probably only in passing.
The Poms were not likely to give away their only truly anglocised country. And their equal second most prosperous.

 

[soha]

i just see it from a religous perspective

 

[ZabZu]

Yea exactly. I even read that they were offered part of Australia in my old textbook but I havent seen it anywhere else so I dont know how much to trust it.

Yeh i heard that they were offered Australia too.

Did you know that British are the one who started the whole Palestine-Israel conflict at the first place?

Yep. The British told both the Jews and the Palestinians, individually, that they would control/rule Palestine. As a result of the mess up by the British they chose not to participate in the vote in 1947.

 

[raigaa]

Relating anti-zionism with anti-semitism is what you call zionist propaganda, just as they say that einstien himself was a zionist, which ironically he was against all forms of patriotism etc, just goes to show how clever the zionist horde are to torment einstien's name

 

[Plebeian]

Did you know that British are the one who started the whole Palestine-Israel conflict at the first place? Once upon a time British were ruling that part of the world, at that time it was called Palestine and right after the second world war suddenly all those holocaust survivor with no where to go started arriving in that region. British didn’t like that at all but they didn’t have the energy to fight the Jewish guerrillas after having just lost the British Empire so they just bagged the place and said, ‘Fine you want this? It’s yours’ Most Arabs residents were not consulted with this deal.

You neglected to mention that the Israelis also have a historical link with the region ever since the Kingdom of Solomon, founded c. 1021 BC (wiki), it's not like they just randomly turned up and said "we want to live here, for no reason at all".

Also, I think you have your history a little confused. The British supported a Jewish state in Palestine after the First World War (the Balfour Declaration of 1917), but then withdrew their support under the White Paper of 1939 because the Arabs protested. The White Paper of 1939 abandoned support for a Zionist homeland and restricted Jewish immigration to the region. In 1947, they stepped down from this policy because they were sick of attempting to mediate the hostile actions of both Jewish and Arab interests. The matter was turned over to the United Nations, the General Assembly voting to institute a partition plan which would have given the Arabs and Jews roughly half the space each. The Arabs rejected this plan, and launched a guerilla war, Jewish militant groups were eager to respond, and the Arabs ended up losing more territory.

The whole process was definitely flawed, but you cannot say it was the unilateral decision of the British to gift the region to the Israelis.

Then of course, America fuelled Israel ever since. Israel gets 3 Million dollar every year from United States. 3 Million Dollar? I wonder what service do they get in return, Has to be one hell of a blowjob right?

So if you are a US tax payer, your money is contributing to that 3 million dollar which is buying those Israelis bullets to kill Palestinians women and children.

The case could just as easily be made that US money is being used to buy medical supplies and food for Israeli women and children. I also doubt that Palestinians have in the past rejected offers of weaponry from other Arab or Soviet states (several collaborative wars have been waged against Israel), and don't recall Palestinian militant groups being particularly careful not to kill Israeli women and children in their actions.

I never understood why Israel was a gift to those Holocaust survivors? I mean who wants to go to Middle East? Its all desert and its hot and dusty right?

If this is such an undesirable location, why do the Palestinians care so much about living there either?

If we had really wanted to do what was right and punish the German, we should have given the state of Bavaria of Germany to those survivors. Now that’s a one beautiful piece of real estate, This is where they make their Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi and Porsche. That piece of land German wouldn’t give it to anyone, let alone those jewish.

I consider myself as anti-Semitic not because I am Muslim but because I know how manipulative those motherfuckers can be. However, I feel sorry for those 6 million innocent unarmed people are killed in the second world war and Germany (Deutschland) didn’t pay for the price.

Firstly, DaimlerChrysler (which owns Mercedes Benz) and Porsche are headquarted in Stuttgart, which is in Baden-Wurttemberg, not Bavaria. More importantly, though, how can you justify displacing the millions of innocent German citizens of Bavaria when you argue against the displacement of innocent Palestinians? World War II Germans were not all Nazis - you can't subject the entire civilian population of a country to postwar punishment for the actions of its leaders during wartime. This is perhaps one reason why the establishment of Israel in the Middle East was more suitable than in other places - because large areas of land were uninhabited desert.

Today average German factory worker made an average wage $29 per hour compare to United States, $19 per hour. What’s more, Germany is 25 times smaller in size than the United States and has one third fewer workers; its gross domestic product per capita is nearly as that of the United States. How is that possible? Just because they make all the flash cars in the world?

Obviously, geographical size has nothing to do with GDP per capita. Small countries like Switzerland and Luxembourg have some of the highest per-capita GDP's in the world, because the point of per-capita is that it negates the effect of population size, which is usually partly contingent on geographical size. Also, when you say Germany has "one-third fewer workers" than the US, what do you mean? Members of the workforce as a proportion of the greater population?


I am not an unconditional supporter of Israel, but I think the arguments you have advanced are fairly shaky and generally unjustified.

 

[Riewe]

That is pretty much what i was thinking. And i always thought it was the UN who instigated the formation of Israel as we know it, not singular countries.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The UN's never done anything much for non-europeans, especially africans.

 

[Grobus]

The UN's never done anything much for non-europeans, especially africans.

Are you aware of how much the UN does in attempt to relieve the disease and famine in Africa?