Education Not Indoctrination (1 Viewer)

[Truthbynumbers]

I am a new uni student, and on this boring sunday ventured forth to the kitchens for breakfast and found a copy of the sunday telegraph sitting on the bench next to me. Unfortunately, not having anything else on me to read, I opened the paper and came upon a rather interesting article on the activities of the Young Liberals (wedged between an article about how Aussie women should flirt more and how two female celebrities wanted to fight eachother).

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23342541-5001021,00.html

Now, I have met right wing teachers in my time, and found that they took their power over developing minds deadly seriously. None of them attempted to indoctrinate me into their beleifs. I have also met left wing teacher (and yes, significantly more than right wing teachers), and while they have no problem saying that they support this party or that party, they have never EVER tried to indoctrinate me into anything. They have often (as did the right wing teachers) stressed that a balanced outlook in the classroom is essential, and taught the arguements of both sides of politics.

So my question to you is:
Have you ever felt discriminated against in the classroom, and do you beleive (as I do) that this is just the Young Liberals crying wolf?

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Well, I think they (YL) are being a bit paranoid about it and it's pretty obvious they're only going on about it to make themselves look good, but I understand the gist of what they're saying. I've never felt discriminated against or any of that bullshit though. Your lecturer might have an obvious political bias but if you have enough conviction of your own beliefs it really shouldn't intimidate you. I have occasionally gotten a vibe from a teacher that made me think twice about approaching an essay or whatever from the perspective I normally would, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It makes you research your argument more thoroughly and look at the other side of it more closely, which can only be a good thing in terms of structuring a good response.

 

[withoutaface]

I know I'll be reporting all the terrible bias in my software engineering lectures right to Noel, and you should too!

EDIT: I think it's been blown a bit out of proportion, but if I was doing an ECON or WORK or whatever subject and was told explicitly or implicitly that if I didn't approach it in the way the tutor wanted I would fail, I'd be pretty pissed off.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

I know I'll be reporting all the terrible bias in my software engineering lectures right to Noel, and you should too!

EDIT: I think it's been blown a bit out of proportion, but if I was doing an ECON or WORK or whatever subject and was told explicitly or implicitly that if I didn't approach it in the way the tutor wanted I would fail, I'd be pretty pissed off.

Oh, if you're told explicitly that your work must be done a certain way then of course that's not on. Nothing of the sort has ever happened to me, though.

 

[withoutaface]

I hear they don't approve of crystal meth, either.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

I can't take anyone whose last name is McCoy seriously. Go back to supporting the invasion of Iraq, smelly Liberals.

Seriously:
1. I've never come across any absurdly liberally thinking teachers
2. If I have they never displayed it
3. I can't recall too many assesment tasks in school that promoted a left/liberal way of answering a question as if it was the only right answer.

I don't include university teaching for the simple fact that I think uni students can make up their own minds and not so much be indoctrinated. But if I were including uni teachers things would be somewhat different.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Now, I have met right wing teachers in my time, and found that they took their power over developing minds deadly seriously. None of them attempted to indoctrinate me into their beleifs. I have also met left wing teacher (and yes, significantly more than right wing teachers), and while they have no problem saying that they support this party or that party, they have never EVER tried to indoctrinate me into anything. They have often (as did the right wing teachers) stressed that a balanced outlook in the classroom is essential, and taught the arguements of both sides of politics.

FACT: teacher education (the training of teachers) is leftist at a deeply fundamental level, at least in the university I happen to attend (there was a lecture on the virtues of marxism as part of an EDUC1xxx subject)

i don't think any individual can say much about this without generalising from their limited personal experience... pretty sure there's no studies on this

also, since we know no one cares what you did at uni once you're finished (as long as you have the degree), why would it bother you to regurgitate some crazy old lecturer's interpretation of everything to pass? it wouldn't bother me that much (like the creationist kid passing hsc biology, lol)

 

[chicky_pie]

It's true there's a lot of Lefty school/uni teachers, back in high school my history teacher told me to tell my parents to vote for (state)Labor, even though he knows how shitty Labor is, when it comes to looking after N.S.W

 

[withoutaface]

lol doesnt my sister look hot in the picture!!!

Come on msn, you jerk.

 

[Dundasbro]

Depends on the subject for me really. My Modern/Extension History teacher is left-wing but is also adament that it is just an opinion, and she always reinforces that whenever she states her opinion. My year 10 science teacher was a huge vat of useless though, hated nuclear power for some reason. Kept going on and on about how unsafe it was, always talking about Chernobyl and how incredibly dangerous it was to have a nuclear reactor. My friend in his assignment based on nuclear power mentioned all the positive effects of nuclear power, as well as stating that much of Europe (mainly France) has nuclear power and it is efficient and cleaner than other sources and there has not been an accident yet. Yeah he got marked down for that.

However she is the exception to the rule I think, honestly apart from her aim-flailing attempts at teaching only green power I can't think of any teachers that are doing wrong in terms of political indoctrination.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Yeah one thing that greenies hate is Nuclear power and I don't entirely understand why.

It's retardedly safe.

yeah, but they can't get over chernobyl. it doesn't matter how much evidence you present. "OMG CHERNOBYL WE ARE GOING TO DIE DONT DO IT"

it's pointless even trying to convince people otherwise really.

 

[withoutaface]

Hahaha and they don't realise that it was the communists that caused chernobyl.

 

[jb_nc]

Yeah one thing that greenies hate is Nuclear power and I don't entirely understand why.

It's retardedly safe.

Nuclear power is bourgeois

 

[jb_nc]

Solar panels: soon @ 25 per cent efficency.

 

[jb_nc]

lol I was reading tce (chem E magazine) and all chem E's were writing in denying global warming. lolworthy.

q.e.d. global warming is a lie

 

[Slidey]

Solar panels: soon @ 25 per cent efficency.

25% efficiency is perfectly fine given the technology and input (free energy input, no moving parts, energy input ubiquitous around the globe).

Besides, various different forms of solar power exist which have wildly different efficiencies. I just saw a recent development which uses quantum dots to massively increase the range of accepted light, thus increasing the energy absorbed from any one burst of light.

Anyway, coal and petrol only have about 30% efficiency.

But in reality most common solar panels are only 15% efficiency. This is because the cheaper the panel the more likely it is to be less efficiency. This isn't a bad thing, because it means you've got a very cheap way to generate 'free' power. As long as you've got the surface area, you're set.

So far 43% cells have been produced in labs and 30% cells have been produced commercially. The most successful cells have had low efficiency due to reasons stated above (they're cheap).

Here's one of the various 30%+ efficiency technologies: rainbow solar cells

 

[Triangulum]

Most (sane) environmentalists accept that the likelihood of a nuclear power plant or whatever melting down is remote. They're more concerned about how to handle the high-level nuclear waste that is produced, which is a thorny problem that deserves proper consideration.

Back to the topic: I'm doing an arts degree, supposedly very Marxist and left-wing and blah blah blah, and I've never seen a particular systemic bias in either direction. Occasionally a lecturer will make a political comment (and it will typically favour the ALP), but it's not like they're saying "the populares and the optimates were enemies in ancient Rome, and by the way the populares were better because they believed in redistributing land to the poor, which is the right thing to do and if you disagree in your exam you will fail". Political comments tend to be offhand things that don't have much relation to the actual content, at least in the courses I've done. Certainly if I was on the right of the spectrum I'd never think that I'd been "denied academic freedom" by any of my lecturers.

 

[Iron]

I cant think of many lecturors of mine who have not had a bias towards Labor politics. They usually express it in a trendy apathy and even with a sense that the ALP has sold out/let them down, but I dont doubt where their allegiances ultimately lie... What's that saying about reality having a left-wing bias?

ANyway, I feel that the education system has steadily forced me to explore the dark arguments of the right, for the sake of debate. It's certainly more fun arguing for the inherent superiority of the West, nuking Japan was right, there is no universal/natural law, there is no truth...
But it's a lonely path.

 

[_dhj_]

Of course those who choose to be academics and to teach rather than go into more lucrative career paths in private industry that ultimately yield lower positive social externalities will tend to possess a left wing 'bias'. Likewise those that tend to focus on the importance of history, politics, philosophy, psychology etc. will be relatively more left-leaning compared to those that lecture in economics, statistics, accounting, finance etc. Arguably, intellectuals are more likely to possess a left-wing stance than others. There is no conspiracy to indoctrinate. It's purely a result of natural selection.

Perhaps it is better that we are indoctrinated with left wing socially conscious views rather than individualistic views. Experiments have consistently shown that actors do not play the Nash equilibrium in prisoner dilemma-like scenarios whereby better social outcomes are yielded through individualistically irrational actions, even when there is no strategic advantage in cooperation. Perhaps those actors are naive. Alternatively, perhaps natural selection has allowed left-leaning individuals to plant the "seeds", to inculcated us with irrational notions of "fairness", "justice" and "relative poverty"; notions that are beneficial for humankind though not for the individual.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Of course those who choose to be academics and to teach rather than go into more lucrative career paths in private industry that ultimately yield lower positive social externalities will tend to possess a left wing 'bias'. Likewise those that tend to focus on the importance of history, politics, philosophy, psychology etc. will be relatively more left-leaning compared to those that lecture in economics, statistics, accounting, finance etc. Arguably, intellectuals are more likely to possess a left-wing stance than others. There is no conspiracy to indoctrinate. It's purely a result of natural selection.

Perhaps it is better that we are indoctrinated with left wing socially conscious views rather than individualistic views. Experiments have consistently shown that actors do not play the Nash equilibrium in prisoner dilemma-like scenarios whereby better social outcomes are yielded through individualistically irrational actions, even when there is no strategic advantage in cooperation. Perhaps those actors are naive. Alternatively, perhaps natural selection has allowed left-leaning individuals to plant the "seeds", to inculcated us with irrational notions of "fairness", "justice" and "relative poverty"; notions that are beneficial for humankind though not for the individual.

biggest load of shit ever posted on bos