Enlisting (1 Viewer)

[moll.]

Out of curiosity, why is it that everyone in this country seems to have a negative outlook upon anyone who joins up to the military?
Like, for instance, I intend to try out for the undergraduate sponsorship program offered by the ADF as soon as I am able to next year. But when i tell my friends of this, they all look at me like I'm insane and ask me whether I'm sure about what I'm doing.
I'm still yet to tell my parents of this plan, but every time i bring up the subject of my possibly enlisting, my parents get angry with me and then lecture me on the dangers of such a move and how it could "ruin my post-military life". I can understand my father's objections, because he was conscripted in '71, just in time for Whitlam to stop him going to 'Nam, but why everyone else?

 

[boris]

Out of curiosity, why is it that everyone in this country seems to have a negative outlook upon anyone who joins up to the military?
Like, for instance, I intend to try out for the undergraduate sponsorship program offered by the ADF as soon as I am able to next year. But when i tell my friends of this, they all look at me like I'm insane and ask me whether I'm sure about what I'm doing.
I'm still yet to tell my parents of this plan, but every time i bring up the subject of my possibly enlisting, my parents get angry with me and then lecture me on the dangers of such a move and how it could "ruin my post-military life". I can understand my father's objections, because he was conscripted in '71, just in time for Whitlam to stop him going to 'Nam, but why everyone else?

Everyone i know thinks it is a good idea?

Employers like ex-military guys because of their work ethic and discipline?

 

[moll.]

Everyone i know thinks it is a good idea?

Employers like ex-military guys because of their work ethic and discipline?

Maybe i just hang out with snobs.

 

[boris]

That is correct.

 

[RogueAcademic]

The more recent generations in Australia does not have the same military or activist movements as in the previous Vietnam generation so I guess that's why the kids these days are blase or are turned off by it, particularly since the two recent wars Australia has been involved in was questionable at best (Vietnam and Iraq). Your father appears to be oen of those who were disillusioned by the political involvement in Vietnam during the 70s, particularly that government was notorious back then for using their own military on which to experiment (Agent Orange being one of them..) on.

US has a strong military culture though and it's entrenched in their way of life, their politics as well along with conservative religious views (speaking from a very general standpoint).

 

[RogueAcademic]

Maybe i just hang out with snobs.

That could be it too.

 

[moll.]

The more recent generations in Australia does not have the same military or activist movements as in the previous Vietnam generation so I guess that's why the kids these days are blase or are turned off by it, particularly since the two recent wars Australia has been involved in was questionable at best (Vietnam and Iraq). Your father appears to be oen of those who were disillusioned by the political involvement in Vietnam during the 70s, particularly that government was notorious back then for using their own military on which to experiment (Agent Orange being one of them..) on.

US has a strong military culture though and it's entrenched in their way of life, their politics as well along with conservative religious views (speaking from a very general standpoint).

Hmmm... True.
But to the extent where I get shunned and looked down upon for it? You'd think people would be able to differentiate between the bad decisions of the politicians and the bad decisions of the soldiers.

 

[RogueAcademic]

Hmmm... True.
But to the extent where I get shunned and looked down upon for it? You'd think people would be able to differentiate between the bad decisions of the politicians and the bad decisions of the soldiers.

Well you obviously have not experienced the hatred that conscripted* Australian soldiers received when they came back from their tours of duty from Vietnam. It was at times as bad as the US soldiers received when they returned from the tours of duty in 'nam in the US.

Perhaps in light of the current war in Iraq, your friends and family see this as you volunteering and agreeing to be told to go there and 'kill people' and fight in a war that is well known and acknowledged to be under false pretenses, false intelligence, and horrendously bad leadership.

*ie. who went and fought with or without their own personal consent.

 

[moll.]

Well you obviously have not experienced the hatred that conscripted* Australian soldiers received when they came back from their tours of duty from Vietnam. It was at times as bad as the US soldiers received when they returned from the tours of duty in 'nam in the US.

Perhaps in light of the current war in Iraq, your friends and family see this as you volunteering and agreeing to be told to go there and 'kill people' and fight in a war that is well known and acknowledged to be under false pretenses, false intelligence, and horrendously bad leadership.

*ie. who went and fought with or without their own personal consent.

But the military establishment and Australian society has learnt it's lesson from Vietnam on how to treat returning soldiers. All the blame for the soldiers being in Iraq at the moment falls on Howard and his government. No-one dares blame the enlisted men.
And after explaining the details of the sponsorship deal, there's no possible way that they could think that i'd be going to Iraq, because the earliest I'd be on active duty would be 2014/15. Probably not even Afghanistan. And certainly not Iraq.
My folks also keep saying "there's going to be another world war within your lifetime. We don't want you to get caught up in it." But I've also explained that if there was a world war that threatened Australia I'd be signing up anyway.
I dunno. People don't make sense.

 

[tommykins]

Wow you're going for the army? That's a pretty random move (never expected it anyways).

I don't know much about the army, but the training regimes and discpline and I guess, life experience would be worth it.

Who cares about money, experience life in all different forms and you can only look back and appreciate what happened or learn from it.

I'd say you need to get abit more fit though hey?

 

[moll.]

Wow you're going for the army? That's a pretty random move (never expected it anyways).

I don't know much about the army, but the training regimes and discpline and I guess, life experience would be worth it.

Who cares about money, experience life in all different forms and you can only look back and appreciate what happened or learn from it.

I'd say you need to get abit more fit though hey?

I have four years to do so Tommy, and I'm nowhere near unfit in the meantime.
But that was my thinking as well. My parents have been gearing me up my entire life with the ultimate goal of making me rich, but lately i've been questioning this idea. There is more to life and i don't wish to be upon my deathbed asking "what have i done with my life?" and not being able to answer it.

 

[RogueAcademic]

But the military establishment and Australian society has learnt it's lesson from Vietnam on how to treat returning soldiers. All the blame for the soldiers being in Iraq at the moment falls on Howard and his government. No-one dares blame the enlisted men.

I'm not sure if that's entirely true. Sure, it all falls on the Howard govt but by direct association and under direct command, it also falls on the 'mindless soldier' as many people see it. And perhaps by signing up in this political climate, it's as if you're supporting the mistakes made. I don't know. I think there's a lot said behind closed doors.

My folks also keep saying "there's going to be another world war within your lifetime. We don't want you to get caught up in it." But I've also explained that if there was a world war that threatened Australia I'd be signing up anyway.

I can understand where they're coming from though. You just never know what's going to happen or how it's going to unfold. No one saw 9/11 coming (except those whom the conspiracy community places the blame on), and no one saw the Iraq war and it's aftermath coming either (although that's a moot point since you could argue that everyone with half a brain knew we were stepping on a landmine there).

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to understand the views of your friends and parents in response to your comments.

You still going to enlist regardless? Which service? Role?

 

[RogueAcademic]

So it's the army? I didn't see you mention that anywhere.

 

[moll.]

Yeah, I'm going to enlist, no matter what my folks say. I'm not letting them rule my life and it's direction.
Yeah, the Army most likely. But because i want to go through the sponsorship deal, i have to be an officer, but i'm not sure whether i have to become a Finance Officer, Legal Officer etc depending upon my degree, or whether i can become a General Service Officer. I want the latter and to join the Infantry Corps. I've considered it, and i think the infantry would be best for me.
Failing that, maybe a pilot in the Air Force, but that's a bit "macho Top Gun" for me.

 

[nhoustonrocks]

I think its cool.

But I guess I would kinda be in the same situation as you are. Even though I've just finished year 10 and still got a while to think about what I want to do, joining the defence force has been an option for a while. I haven't told anyone about it yet, but I can tell that the reactions of my parents and friends aren't going to be great, especially as I'm a girl and military has normally always been a man's job.

 

[moll.]

I think its cool.

But I guess I would kinda be in the same situation as you are. Even though I've just finished year 10 and still got a while to think about what I want to do, joining the defence force has been an option for a while. I haven't told anyone about it yet, but I can tell that the reactions of my parents and friends aren't going to be great, especially as I'm a girl and military has normally always been a man's job.

On the plus side though, there's virtually zero chance of you getting killed when you're in the military (unless they change it between now and when you sign up), 'cause at the moment women aren't allowed in frontline jobs.
But yeah, i'd hate to think of my parents reaction when i finally break the news to them. Oh well. If they don't give me their support then i guess they're not very good parents anyway.

 

[boris]

On the plus side though, there's virtually zero chance of you getting killed when you're in the military (unless they change it between now and when you sign up), 'cause at the moment women aren't allowed in frontline jobs.
But yeah, i'd hate to think of my parents reaction when i finally break the news to them. Oh well. If they don't give me their support then i guess they're not very good parents anyway.

Thats what i always thought too, theres 50K+ people in the defence force, and we have fuck all casualties even in places like afghanistan. The chances of being killed in the infantry are the same as any other job.

 

[moll.]

Thats what i always thought too, theres 50K+ people in the defence force, and we have fuck all casualties even in places like afghanistan. The chances of being killed in the infantry are the same as any other job.

Yeah, my pre-prepared response to my parents concern over my safety is that i'm statistically more likely to get run over.