Gov may reinstate cap on uni places (2 Viewers)

[Rafy]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...t-student-target/story-fn59nlz9-1226672858677

THE Rudd government could walk away from a key education target to increase university participation, with Higher Education Minister Kim Carr saying rapid growth in enrolments over the past three years had potentially compromised the quality of degrees on offer.

Senator Carr, who was yesterday returned to the federal ministry, indicated the government was prepared to dump its quest to have 40 per cent of young people with at least a bachelor's degree by 2025. While a reversal in policy, the move would stem budgetary pressures to fund hundreds of thousands of new places by putting caps back on how many students universities could enrol.

Universities have been ramping up pressure on government to review the demand-driven system since being hit with $3.8 billion in cuts since October.

Yesterday Senator Carr - the fourth higher education minister in four months - said that while there had been "tremendous growth" in enrolments, he was concerned about maintaining standards.

"Given the strength of growth in demand, it is appropriate to (think about) quality and excellence," he said "We need to consider refocusing government investment to get the best possible use of public money."

Mike Gallagher, executive director of the elite Group of Eight universities, said it was "refreshing to see the new minister prepared to bring some discipline to demand-driven funding, given the blowout in costs and risks to quality".

"The escalating costs of absorbing more and more students, some ill-prepared to succeed at university, caused the government to make cuts in funding for research just when the Chief Scientist, Ian Chubb, is warning Australia not to be complacent," he said. "The new minister is wise to revisit the balance of priorities between equity and excellence."

Peter Coaldrake, vice-chancellor of Queensland University of Technology, said the 40 per cent target was good public policy and aligned with aspirations for a better educated workforce for the growth in highly skilled jobs in the knowledge economy of the future.

"But the system has been growing very quickly and there are concerns about the sustainability of that rapid growth. We need to be sure the achievement of that target should not be at the cost of quality," he said. The 40 per cent target was introduced as policy in 2009 under then education minister Julia Gillard following a review of higher education by former University of South Australia head Denise Bradley. The latest figures reveal that, in 2012, 36.8 per cent of 25- to 34-year-olds had a bachelor's degree or higher, up from 30 per cent in 2006.

Demand for places has greatly exceeded expectations, with Treasury forced to revise and revise again budgetary implications. [...]

 

[Emily Howard]

good bye arts degrees lol

 

[4025808]

I would support this. The job prospects of any degree is going to be fucking shit if places are uncapped (especially with commerce graduates).

 

[Roscosmos]

I hope they do this

 

[TheGreatest99.95]

funny move from a left-winged party. This will help those who did well at school (90+ atar) while entrench those who didnt. This could have effects either way, i dunno about it

 

[shak99]

I completely support this. Less quantity, more quality in terms of graduates

 

[Emily Howard]

my future children will b slittin dere wrists wen dey dnt get n atar of 99.95

 

[aekryan]

Don't see how this will make a difference... people will just transfer post grad.
Universities are a money making business, they wont allow this (not to say it wont happen), but there are other ways to get a degree rather than straight from undergrad.
Unis dont care whether they hand you a useful degree for example,
I can only speak for law degrees as i have done a lot of research, but look what they did with undergrad degrees and the post-grad. the LBB is not recognized anywhere except some parts of Canada and AUS. Whereas the JD degrees are extremely expensive unless you were an exemplar student in you're undergrad degree. In both cases, with the exception of the JD being harder and favored by employers, these degrees are exactly the same and 80-90 percent of people almost certainly won't get jobs with the salary they expected and they're uni fees will be astronomical.
Don't see this really changing through anything the Rudd government could implement...

Not sure why so many people are so passionately for it, i felt more indifferent.
If you are so much smarter than the people who don't get over 90 then there should be no problem proving you are a better candidate for a position, no need to feel threatened.

 

[sghguos]

Don't see how this will make a difference... people will just transfer post grad.
Universities are a money making business, they wont allow this (not to say it wont happen), but there are other ways to get a degree rather than straight from undergrad.
Unis dont care whether they hand you a useful degree for example,
I can only speak for law degrees as i have done a lot of research, but look what they did with undergrad degrees and the post-grad. the LBB is not recognized anywhere except some parts of Canada and AUS. Whereas the JD degrees are extremely expensive unless you were an exemplar student in you're undergrad degree. In both cases, with the exception of the JD being harder and favored by employers, these degrees are exactly the same and 80-90 percent of people almost certainly won't get jobs with the salary they expected and they're uni fees will be astronomical.
Don't see this really changing through anything the Rudd government could implement...

Not sure why so many people are so passionately for it, i felt more indifferent.
If you are so much smarter than the people who don't get over 90 then there should be no problem proving you are a better candidate for a position, no need to feel threatened.

What da freak are you on about mate. The LLB is more recognised still than a JD even though JD recognition is improving no where near that of an llb, the maon reason is people see JD as a someone who failed to get a llb and did it ad a postgraduate.

 

[aekryan]

What da freak are you on about mate. The LLB is more recognised still than a JD even though JD recognition is improving no where near that of an llb, the maon reason is people see JD as a someone who failed to get a llb and did it ad a postgraduate.

They are both equally recognized in Australia and although uni's wont say it, my uncle who is attorney says JDs are preferred over LLB's when considering applications as the JD as it is a specialized degree (not combined) with a more practical approach to a critical analysis of the law + it being internationally recognized (see how overseas there are "Law Schools" which are effectively post grad) and generally producing more students with an avid interest in the law.. That is an employers perspective, it comes down to knowing the right people in the end and having a decent degree through there are many ways to get there the hard way. There are also other things the employers take into consideration, such as prestige being a big one and firms association with certain universities.

that's besides the point though, it was merely in intended for it to serve as an example of how universities are money making businesses and that any "policy to put caps on university places" is a waste of time. If people want to waste their time and money on degrees then that should be their decisions and it is the discretion of the university to decide their cut off.

I didn't mean to berate the quality of the LLB;i myself will do one, i went into the pros and cons for each in terms of employment opportunities and uni fees but the facts on both are true.
Is post graduate medicine any less 'recognized' than undergrad. When i was talking about recognition i was talking about intentionally as America etc do not have undergraduate law programs but rather post grad "law schools" (see above), everyone moves on to a LLM so effectively someone with a JD moving onto an LLM would have an internationally recognized degree but someone with a LLB moving onto a LLM would not have an internationally recognized degree, it only effects you if you plan to work overseas which many don't intend on doing.

Sorry to divert the focus.

 

[Omnipotence]

They are both equally recognized in Australia and although uni's wont say it, my uncle who is attorney says JDs are preferred over LLB's when considering applications as the JD as it is a specialized degree (not combined) with a more practical approach to a critical analysis of the law + it being internationally recognized (see how overseas there are "Law Schools" which are effectively post grad) and generally producing more students with an avid interest in the law.. That is an employers perspective, it comes down to knowing the right people in the end and having a decent degree through there are many ways to get there the hard way. There are also other things the employers take into consideration, such as prestige being a big one and firms association with certain universities.

that's besides the point though, it was merely in intended for it to serve as an example of how universities are money making businesses and that any "policy to put caps on university places" is a waste of time. If people want to waste their time and money on degrees then that should be their decisions and it is the discretion of the university to decide their cut off.

I didn't mean to berate the quality of the LLB;i myself will do one, i went into the pros and cons for each in terms of employment opportunities and uni fees but the facts on both are true.
Is post graduate medicine any less 'recognized' than undergrad. When i was talking about recognition i was talking about intentionally as America etc do not have undergraduate law programs but rather post grad "law schools" (see above), everyone moves on to a LLM so effectively someone with a JD moving onto an LLM would have an internationally recognized degree but someone with a LLB moving onto a LLM would not have an internationally recognized degree, it only effects you if you plan to work overseas which many don't intend on doing.

Sorry to divert the focus.

attorney :S
barrister

 

[aekryan]

attorney :S
barrister

I'm not sure, he works in America and calls himself an attorney. He knows a lot of employers in Aus and spoke to them for me, i also spoke to Sydney and UNSW uni twice and once respectively.. if anyone wants to question the validity of anything a lot is on the uni website or talk to them. They will tell you the degrees are equal with the JD being internationally recognized.

 

[Roscosmos]

What da freak are you on about mate. The LLB is more recognised still than a JD even though JD recognition is improving no where near that of an llb, the maon reason is people see JD as a someone who failed to get a llb and did it ad a postgraduate.

A JD is more recognised than an LLB, and they're technically supposed to be equal. Postgrad law is the american system...

 

[aekryan]

A JD is more recognised than an LLB, and they're technically supposed to be equal. Postgrad law is the american system...

'More recognized'?
There are no gradations to whether a degree is recognized, it either is or is not. Yes internationally it is almost exclusively JD with Australia and some parts of Canada offering JD (yes the JD is the term coined internationally)...
The American system is purely postgrad yes.. no undergrad there and i think the same goes for med (much better in my opinion).
Yes the JD is more technically difficult and favored for the reasons stated in my first comment that was on topic with the thread (sorry OP btw), but they are the same in terms of being bachelor degrees in law to which further studies (masters in law) are taken.
Postgrad law is by no means exclusively an American system... the JD is postgrad.. though it's the only postgrad system (besides in UMel) that doesn't require an LSAT that i have heard of (not sure about this). This is all trivial though, the JD allows for international study and is favoured over the LLB, but you would be surprised what employers take into account and a lot of it is not marks and degree.