Hatshepsut and the Aten (1 Viewer)

[silvermoon]

with the sun court and the aten shrine at djeser-djeseru:
-why do egyptologists assume that the su court is dedicated solely to aten? could it not be also dedicated to ra or amun-ra?
-why does gae callender say that the fact that there are steps leading to court indicate it is for aten? (i know aten has steps leading up to in hieroglyphs etc. in later years...but surely the steps could just be there as way of getting to next level...)
-what exactly is in the sun court?

 

[tina_goes_doo]

What the hell IS the sun court?

 

[cuivienen]

Are you referring to the sanctuary complex of the sun opposite the Upper Court of Djeser - djeseru?

I would guess that this court was designed for the worship of Ra-Horakhty...I'm also guessing that Historians are referring to the damage made to these temples during the Armana period...Remember, images of Amun and Osirian statues were defaced and damaged during the Armana period...Is this what you are referring to?

And i'd be interested in seeing the quote by Gae Callendar stating that the sancturay complex defined Hatshepsut's relationship with the Aten...

 

[angelduck]

Geez Reni, are u implying that harpy + Callender are stupid??? Remember, we should not question those who have greater ancient history knowledge than us, after all, we are just lowly high school students.....

And um, the aten, um, i think there was also refernces to the aten on one of her obelisks, so says the mighty callender, ill find the quote someday...


And now to bitch about english! I CANT BELIVEV WE HAVE STILL ONLY GOT ONE SECTION BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

::vows to do away with all those in english staffroom, just as Th. III did away with Hattie-soup::

- just thought, does that mean i dint do away with them, as Callender, oh mighty, believes TH.III didnt do away with hatshepsut??? Im confusing myself again...........

 

[tina_goes_doo]

And now to bitch about english! I CANT BELIVEV WE HAVE STILL ONLY GOT ONE SECTION BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Umm....dude. They LOST my section III for journeys!!!

 

[silvermoon]

stop ruining my thread the both of you! GO AWAY IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO CONTRIBUTE! *tries to be mad but fails utterly*
umm, yes, the sanctuary complex, that would be the proper term!
the exact quote? no can do - i got that from notes from my teacher taken during callender's most recent sydney lecture on hatshepsut (which was...last yr maybe? sometime not too long ago)
i assumed when i first researched djeser-djeseru, that it was for worship primarily of ra, or joint amun-ra - i dont really see why you'd assume it was primarily aten...maybe im just stupid though

 

[cuivienen]

no can do - i got that from notes from my teacher taken during callender's most recent sydney lecture on hatshepsut (which was...last yr maybe? sometime not too long ago)

Oh thats ok then...no worries


i assumed when i first researched djeser-djeseru, that it was for worship primarily of ra, or joint amun-ra - i dont really see why you'd assume it was primarily aten...maybe im just stupid though

Yeah you are right, It is definant that this sanctuary complex was designed for a particular sun-god...Not the Aten to my knowledge*...I think it was designed for either Ra-Horakhty or Amun-Re...one of those gods...

* Thutmose IV was the only Pharaoh who actually built monuments in dedication to the Aten during the time of our topic (New Kingdom to Thutmose IV)...

 

[silvermoon]

thanx cuivienen (again ) - i dont think that angelduck meant that hatshepsut had actually built monuments to the aten, just that she mentioned it on one of the karnak obelisks - doesnt she also mention the aten somewhere at djeser-djeseru - umm, on the second collonade, where she has reliefs showing the whole godly pantheon thanking her for the temple restoration program? anyway, im sure angelduck will correct me if im wrong and thats not what she meant...

 

[jazmine1129]

hmmm

i know that closer to the armana period the pharaohs where moving away form Amun and starting to worship other deities more (e.g. sphinx)
but i never knew hatshepsut was with the Aten. i know some inscriptions of a sun disk wit the ray thingys but did she refer to it as the aten? :S

 

[silvermoon]

yes, she refers ot this symbol as the aten: note, the aten was worshipped all through this period, it was just that amun was the chief deity of NK -> armana period when the aten became the chief deity. egyptians were extremely pantheistic with many different gods and goddesses worshipped at all times within the empire.

 

[angelduck]

Ummmm.... I cant remeber what i was thinkin wen i wrote that, for now, im off to post-whore!!!

Umm, however, with the Aten thingy, i think maybe callender is just preoccupied with religion, i mean, what about her stupid minoan religion theories!!

 

[silvermoon]

Ummmm.... I cant remeber what i was thinkin wen i wrote that, for now, im off to post-whore!!!

Umm, however, with the Aten thingy, i think maybe callender is just preoccupied with religion, i mean, what about her stupid minoan religion theories!!

first off: cant remember what u were thinking when u wrote what exactly?
secondly: r u sure u arent thinking of nanno marinatos with minoans. she has far more outlandish religious theories than calender does.

there's only so far out a giraffe is willing to stick its neck after all.

someone might just be passing with a painfully blunt *i mean quickand painlessly sharp* axe
*gets out axe lovingly*

 

[tina_goes_doo]

Maybe duck was referring to the callender book on minoans? Can't remember what she said about religion in that. Actually i can't remember what nanno said about it either. Anyone willing to refresh my memory? The only theory i can remember at the top of my head by a female was from Susan Evesdaughter/Evansdaughter. Damn harpy for giving us two different versions of that name! Anyone who knows which one it is will win a free 'i love Gae' tee-shirt!

 

[silvermoon]

i would tell u...but i dont want the T-shirt. maybe that should be the incentive: 'tell me or an 'I love Gae Callender' shirt will mysteriously arrive on your doorstep tomorrow and shall plaster itself to your body, unable to be removed...EVER.
mwah-ha-ha (damn im tired!)
anyway...minoans. yes, minoans. nanno is the one with all the religious theories on governing body, frescoes, giant cemetaries etc. susan E... is the one with the not very highly regarded theory on matriarchy (u know, the one where her sole evidence is misquoted plato and poor and inaccurate research..*sigh*)

 

[tina_goes_doo]

nanno is the one with all the religious theories on governing body, frescoes, giant cemetaries etc.

Yeah i figured nanno would say something like that. I was hoping for some specifics like examples of frescoes etc. And it's so Evesdaughter right? It has to be....then again could also be Evensdaughter....or Evansdaughter...............dammit!!

 

[silvermoon]

it's evasdaughter..i think. damn, i was sure until u listed all da possibilities. now im all confuzzuled.
a specific huh. umm, how about that she thinks that the central governing body was not a king but the priesthood. much evidence for this - but all pretty circumspect. like, she shows that although you can draw the conclusion that there was either one person or a group who ruled, it doesnt seemt o have been a king/queen - from thsi she hypothesises that it must then be a priesthood (as obviously it couldnt possibly be anyone else...). Then she also uses stuff like lustral areas outside 'throne' at knossos etc.

 

[tina_goes_doo]

it's evasdaughter..i think.

Please tell me that was a typo and you just didn't combine Evesdaughter and Evansdaughter together.

 

[silvermoon]

Please tell me that was a typo and you just didn't combine Evesdaughter and Evansdaughter together.

heheheheheheheheheh.
no.