Languages (1 Viewer)

[yamrdr]

Hi

I want to study a language while i'm at uni but I'm tossing up between Japanese and German (I know, two completly diff languages!). I studied Japanese in years 9 and 10 at school and German for only one semester in like year 7. I was wondering, if anyone here has studied either or both of these languages what you think the pro's/ con's are. I remember enjoying japanese a lot but I also found it a bit difficult at times, mainly because I didn't devote enough time to studying it. I have heard that German is easier esp. if English is your first language. What do you guys think?

Thanx

 

[tomorrows_angel]

haven't studied either, but pro's and cons as far as i can see it,

japanese is harder cos you have to learn the whole new character set/alphabet, and te conventions of writing are different. however it is more widely used than german is, and seems to have more application that german unless you want to go to germany...

german is a really gutteral language, the whole gender "male", "female" and "neutral" thing is confusing to learn, especially when it's not straight forward. However if you want to travel in europe and germany it would be better to learn, and the alphabet is basically the same.

it depends on what uni course you intend doing... if you did an arts/languages course you could do both, a fair few courses will allow you to do more than one language. and you'd start in the beginners classes, so you wouldn't have any problem with learning them.

really it's up to what you prefer. if you think that you won't spend enough time on japanese, then maybe you should go with german. But all languages need to be studied a lot, especially at uni where you just have a few hours a week with a class of about 20 people, there isn't much chance for one-on-one if you're having difficulites.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Hi

I want to study a language while i'm at uni but I'm tossing up between Japanese and German (I know, two completly diff languages!). I studied Japanese in years 9 and 10 at school and German for only one semester in like year 7. I was wondering, if anyone here has studied either or both of these languages what you think the pro's/ con's are. I remember enjoying japanese a lot but I also found it a bit difficult at times, mainly because I didn't devote enough time to studying it. I have heard that German is easier esp. if English is your first language. What do you guys think?

Thanx

THere are pros and cons to each.

Japanese is impossible to learn initially, with three sets of characters, one of which mimics Chinese's random system. At uni, you'll be doing a LOT of work for Jap, they'll expect you to pick up the characters in your own time, and you'll get left behind if you don't do work.

I'm doing German for academic purposes, and whilst it is easier for me because I speak Swedish, the general vibe is that it's one of the easiest Germanic (some say even European) languages.

Japanese will set you better for anything you do in life, with 23% of Australia's exports going there. Language for an English speaker, is really not as job-goodliness as it was before. Simply because of the reason that NATIVES of Japan/Germany will all learn English in school, and hence any translating or general work will be done by them. Apart from the fact that you won't use your language skills in the workforce, you'll find that learning Japanese is pointless. Businessmen will find it offensive if you try to speak their language, they'll insist on a Japanese translator. I shit you not, if you attempt to converse with them, and you are clearly foreign (worse if you LOOK foreign, like my 6"2', 90KG, Blonde/blue self), they will just ignore you.

Essentially- German is easier to learn, Japanese will sit you in more stead, both will be more useless that you'd imagine.

 

[neo o]

I was in a similar position to you half way through year 12, where I knew that I wanted to do a language and I was *pretty sure* that I wanted to do either Japanese or German (the native language that I never learnt). In the end I went with Chinese .

Learning an asian language is difficult, but not for the reasons that you may think. Japanese is actually very easy in your first year. There are no tones (unlike quite a few other asian languages), the two Japanese alphabets are easy to learn and it's likely that you'll be learning Chinese characters at a relatively slow pace.

However, it will become a bitch of a language in your second year when you'll have to

- conjugate verbs.
- learn different politeness levels.

I think that your choice should really depend on where you see yourself working in the future. I chose Chinese because I want to travel to and work in SE Asia or China when I graduate. If you're interested in international business either Japanese or German would be a good call (I still intend to learn at least one of them).

japanese is harder cos you have to learn the whole new character set/alphabet, and te conventions of writing are different. however it is more widely used than german is, and seems to have more application that german unless you want to go to germany...

BTW, that's just ignorant. Germany is the dominant power in the EU, to the point where German has really displaced French as the most widely spoken continental European language in both international business and politics.

 

[Dreamerish*~]

don't do german

genders, cases and forms will kill you and cut you into pieces.

 

[tomorrows_angel]

BTW, that's just ignorant. Germany is the dominant power in the EU, to the point where German has really displaced French as the most widely spoken continental European language in both international business and politics.

sorry, didn't know. i was thinking more along the lines of a lot of business heading now to the asian sector. yes, i am ignorant, deal with it.

 

[Dreamerish*~]

Don't do Japanese - the character sets are like shards of glass to swallow.

haha, try chinese

 

[xeuyrawp]

I was in a similar position to you half way through year 12, where I knew that I wanted to do a language and I was *pretty sure* that I wanted to do either Japanese or German (the native language that I never learnt). In the end I went with Chinese .

Learning an asian language is difficult, but not for the reasons that you may think. Japanese is actually very easy in your first year. There are no tones (unlike quite a few other asian languages), the two Japanese alphabets are easy to learn and it's likely that you'll be learning Chinese characters at a relatively slow pace.

However, it will become a bitch of a language in your second year when you'll have to

- conjugate verbs.
- learn different politeness levels.

I think that your choice should really depend on where you see yourself working in the future. I chose Chinese because I want to travel to and work in SE Asia or China when I graduate. If you're interested in international business either Japanese or German would be a good call (I still intend to learn at least one of them).



BTW, that's just ignorant. Germany is the dominant power in the EU, to the point where German has really displaced French as the most widely spoken continental European language in both international business and politics.

I thought learning verbs was easy, and politeness levels is just a matter of learning from the top down- ie teaching polite first.

I agree with the idea of tones- i mean, you can see a Jap word and get how to say it immediately (short of emphasis).

It's interesting that you comment when you haven't learnt either one?

I would say to the thread-maker: Don't chose a language on the basis that you will see yourself using in the future, because it won't happen. Everybody in the world now learns English, and any real jobs that you'd need a language for are taken by the natives who've been studying English since year 3 and watch American Cable every night.

 

[neo o]

It's interesting that you comment when you haven't learnt either one?

I actually did both for two years in high school, though I wasn't very good with either. I have friends in the third year and second year of both languages at uni, so I'm parroting the same problems that they have. Also, studying Chinese I think qualifies me to make comments on Chinese characters, don't you think? Hey, even having a family who all speak fluent German may give me some insight

 

[xeuyrawp]

I actually did both for two years in high school, though I wasn't very good with either. I have friends in the third year and second year of both languages at uni, so I'm parroting the same problems that they have. Also, studying Chinese I think qualifies me to make comments on Chinese characters, don't you think? Hey, even having a family who all speak fluent German may give me some insight

Probably should have said that when you first posted, but anyway.

Unlike chinese, where you're really forced to learn the characters, the characters in Jap can really be learnt trough doing comprehension. Of course there are the required ones, but the majority of the ones in the exam I could recognise but not write...

Anyway, you don't think German is a relatively easy language to learn? I mean, the verbs in Jap is really the only setback.

 

[AsyLum]

Learning any language = time intensive and a lot has to do with how much time you devote to thinking and speaking/writing in that new language.

 

[AsyLum]

Learning any language = time intensive and a lot has to do with how much time you devote to thinking and speaking/writing in that new language.

 

[yenta]

Japanese will set you better for anything you do in life, with 23% of Australia's exports going there. Language for an English speaker, is really not as job-goodliness as it was before. Simply because of the reason that NATIVES of Japan/Germany will all learn English in school, and hence any translating or general work will be done by them. Apart from the fact that you won't use your language skills in the workforce, you'll find that learning Japanese is pointless. Businessmen will find it offensive if you try to speak their language, they'll insist on a Japanese translator. I shit you not, if you attempt to converse with them, and you are clearly foreign (worse if you LOOK foreign, like my 6"2', 90KG, Blonde/blue self), they will just ignore you.

Bullshit. Yes all Japanese people must learn English in school, but many of them only learn a little bit of it...nowhere near the amount needed to have a fluent conversation. Hence not many Japanese businessmen will be very fluent in English. If you learn Japanese at uni and become fluent in it, as if the businessmen you talk to won't want to just talk to you in Japanese rather than get a translator...if you're fluent in Jap and can easily hold a conversation then why would they get offended and ignore you??? I'm doing a business degree combined with Japanese because I believe knowing a second language (no matter what it is) is an advantage, especially with globalisation etc.

Anyway, re which is better, german or jap. I've never learnt German so I can't say what the pros and cons are, but for Japanese:

Pros:
- Pronounciation is easy to pick up, and when you see a new word, it's quite easy to get the pronounciation.
- Grammar is a lot easier to learn than English grammar, cos most grammar rules don't have many (if any) exceptions.
- Besides learning the language, you'll also learn about Japanese culture and history, which is VERY rich and interesting due to Japan's age

Cons:
- Learning 3 different alphabets. Kanji (need I say more?).
- verbs can be difficult, i.e. there are so many different forms and it's hard to get them right for certain forms
- intonation is hard, you have to say certain words in a certain way otherwise they have a different meaning e.g. "atsui" can mean hot or thick depending on how you say it.

All I can think of for now

 

[xeuyrawp]

Bullshit. Yes all Japanese people must learn English in school, but many of them only learn a little bit of it...nowhere near the amount needed to have a fluent conversation. Hence not many Japanese businessmen will be very fluent in English. If you learn Japanese at uni and become fluent in it, as if the businessmen you talk to won't want to just talk to you in Japanese rather than get a translator...if you're fluent in Jap and can easily hold a conversation then why would they get offended and ignore you??? I'm doing a business degree combined with Japanese because I believe knowing a second language (no matter what it is) is an advantage, especially with globalisation etc.

You're just crabby because Japanese will be very useless for you.

English is now the most popular language elective in Japanese schools. This means that a tonne (I'll dig up the statistics) or people slightly older than us (compulsary language in a year 12 level for them was only totally standardised recently). It would be good if you understood that business conversations will never be held with a Japanese person and yourself. There will always be a translator, even when you're out with them at night going to clubs and karaoke. This translator will always be Japanese, even if s/he's taken to Japan by your (non-Japanese) company.

Pros:
- Pronounciation is easy to pick up, and when you see a new word, it's quite easy to get the pronounciation.
- Grammar is a lot easier to learn than English grammar, cos most grammar rules don't have many (if any) exceptions.
- Besides learning the language, you'll also learn about Japanese culture and history, which is VERY rich and interesting due to Japan's age

Cons:
- Learning 3 different alphabets. Kanji (need I say more?).
- verbs can be difficult, i.e. there are so many different forms and it's hard to get them right for certain forms
- intonation is hard, you have to say certain words in a certain way otherwise they have a different meaning e.g. "atsui" can mean hot or thick depending on how you say it.

All of those have already been mentioned, except for Japanese culture and history, which is really no more richer and interesting than Germany.

Edit:

Forgot to mention something- German is a really good language if you want to study anything at uni. Philosophy, Science, History are all originally dominated by the Germans. They've all been translated, like Nietzsche, Kant, and all of the other texts are translated into english, but reading something in its original form is about 20 times better, also when there are a lot of Egyptian Archaeology periodicals that never get translated.

 

[black_kat_meow]

I have been learning German since I started school and can truly recommend it. I have always found it fairly easy to learn, as it is in many ways similar to English. Once you grasp the basics, everything just seems to fall into place. I would say that it would be more useful to learn German, considering how many countries speak it, compared to Japanese, which is pretty much just spoken in Japan.

 

[yamrdr]

thanx guys for ur replies!

Studying another language is just an interest i've always had. I don't plan on using it for career purposes (though I am studying to become a primary teacher). Maybe I should just wait till I finish my degree then do a certificate or something...

 

[shady_03]

Stat Quo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[neo o]

Probably should have said that when you first posted, but anyway.

Unlike chinese, where you're really forced to learn the characters, the characters in Jap can really be learnt trough doing comprehension. Of course there are the required ones, but the majority of the ones in the exam I could recognise but not write...

Anyway, you don't think German is a relatively easy language to learn? I mean, the verbs in Jap is really the only setback.

I think that German is probably the easiest language that a native English speaker can learn (I think that you've already said that ). Anyone whos first language was say, Chinese may have a little more trouble.

You'd be surprised with learning Chinese though, I know at the University of Canberra they learn romanised Chinese (Hanyu Pinyin) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin for a full year before starting on characters. (In that respect, Chinese isn't too bad since it CAN be romanised and sounds sound the same, whereever they appear.) In my course, we start off straight away with comprehension, and while it's fairly basic to begin with, by second year we have enough of a basic understanding to read more complex comprehension (and figure out from the character's radical [which can give you some idea of what it sounds like] and context what it actually is.) And yeah, I've found if I learn a heap of stuff, I'll be able to recognise the meaning of certain things, but I won't be able to remember either the characters correct sound (with its tone) or how to write it .

I think learning characters isn't hard in Chinese or Japanese, you just have to do a little work each night, so that you remember them

 

[shady_03]

Japanese is pretty hard and challenging coz u have 2 learn different scripts, their symbols, what they mean, how 2 construct sentences using all 3 etc. Its hard, maybe german would be easier coz japanese can be FUKED lol

 

[xeuyrawp]

I think that German is probably the easiest language that a native English speaker can learn

Excellent.

We're all in agreement!

German is easier and is spoken by a greater width of people.

Japanese is harder and is spoken by a smaller width. Although, it would be considered more useful if you were going to use it as an Australian (with 20+% of Australian exports going to Japan).

However, Japanese will be far more intrinsically worthless for you than you would think because of the number and preference of native Japs who speak English, as well as the fact that it's hard to get in-country practice (ANU offering one of the only in-Japan courses that I'd even consider looking at). Hence, German may be of more use, but it probably depends on who's arguing.