Seniors create 'single shot' euthanasia coffee pot (2 Viewers)

[katie_tully]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=290476

So kids. Should we have the right to a peaceful, painfree death?

 

[beentherdunthat]

Their thinking is, 'I want to prepare myself so that in case things go bad, I've got something in the cupboard'.

LOL... me too

 

[katie_tully]

Ha. Exactly. The question is, why not.
Kudos to them for going to the effort. Can you imagine a bunch of senior citizens (90 yr old included) concocting that stuff in the communal kitchen at a retirement home. Hah.

Seriously though, while I am still lucid, I'm going to stockpile.

 

[beentherdunthat]

The single shot created is about 10 to 15 grams of synthesised Nembutal which is more than enough for one person to end their life, he added.

I think this is a more 'gentle' form of suicide that is instigated by fear rather than by an overly depressed mental state.

I don't think it's right. Just because they have the resources for it, doesn't mean it makes it right for them to kill themselves when they feel like it. I know it's hard, but sometimes FEARING that you'll die at that moment doesn't MEAN you WILL die. You should take it how it comes. You never know, you might end up living many years longer

 

[katie_tully]

I don't think it's right. Just because they have the resources for it, doesn't mean it makes it right for them to kill themselves when they feel like it. I know it's hard, but sometimes FEARING that you'll die at that moment doesn't MEAN you WILL die. You should take it how it comes. You never know, you might end up living many years longer

What doesn't make it right for them to kill themselves. Why should they, or anybody, live in a state on pain and anguish because people like you don't agree with it.
In these cases, they're not killing themselves just because. Worst case scenario, they get a terminal disease or they get a degenerative brain disease, they're preparing now while they're still lucid.

I don't think it's the same as some teenager who hates life because hating life is vogue. Atleast these old people aren't going to make a mess.

 

[beentherdunthat]

What doesn't make it right for them to kill themselves. Why should they, or anybody, live in a state on pain and anguish because people like you don't agree with it.

#1 I never said they should live in a state of pain or anguish.
#2 Doctors are there for a reason. They are there to HELP you. Painkillers are there for a reason.
#3 Commiting suicide in such a way might give you a momentary second of 'relief' but what you're doing to your family/relatives is worse. (and thats one of my main objections to commiting suicide).

In these cases, they're not killing themselves just because. Worst case scenario, they get a terminal disease or they get a degenerative brain disease, they're preparing now while they're still lucid

In any case, they're going to die. Euthanasia = encouraging suicide. I think it's wrong, not only because they might have a POTENTIAL to live longer but also looking at it religious-wise, which makes me a little biased I think.

I quote some dude whose name I don't know (lol) : Suicide is a form of telling God ' You can't FIRE me, because I QUIT'

Ofcourse if you're atheist, then I have one less point to argue with you

 

[katie_tully]

#2 Doctors are there for a reason. They are there to HELP you. Painkillers are there for a reason.

lol @ painkillers.
a. who wants to be dependent on painkillers for the rest of their natural life?
b. painkillers become irrelevant past a certain stage. most common example is morphine. the body develops a tolerance to morphine. as a tolerance develops, the dosage increases until the maximum dosage is reached. plus the side effects of painkillers are usually just as bad as the pain theyre meant to keep at bay.

#3 Commiting suicide in such a way might give you a momentary second of 'relief' but what you're doing to your family/relatives is worse

If I were in a constant state of pain, or had a degenerative neural disease I would hope my family would be understanding enough to let me die with dignity.
And that is what it comes down to. Quality of life.
lol @ momentary second of relief. it's permanent??

Euthanasia = encouraging suicide

No, it's called providing them with an option OTHER than living the rest of their life begrudgingly.

I quote some dude whose name I don't know (lol) : Suicide is a form of telling God ' You can't FIRE me, because I QUIT'

Such a nice, benevolent god. Allowing people to live in chronic pain.

I'm atheist. Yes.

 

[pattii]

if i was dying from some 'painful' thing then yes

but if there is a possibility that i could live then i would wait it out

i lol'd at this

'I'm 80 years old, are they really going to come and get me?"

 

[beentherdunthat]

Damns. I always end up in the most nerdiest discussions (LOL)

lol @ painkillers.
a. who wants to be dependent on painkillers for the rest of their natural life?
b. painkillers become irrelevant past a certain stage. most common example is morphine. the body develops a tolerance to morphine. as a tolerance develops, the dosage increases until the maximum dosage is reached. plus the side effects of painkillers are usually just as bad as the pain theyre meant to keep at bay.

a) Natural life = Not natural if you kill yourself
A lot of people are dependant on painkillers. Sometimes, it's the only reason they're not commiting suicide.
b) But the fact is, painkillers work. And there are different types these days. Not only morphine. I do agree though, sometimes painkillers are a pain themselves. But isn't it worth the risk? Rather then killing yourself, you could live a while longer with a little pain. You won't kill yourself just because you're having a baby now would you? I heard thats tremendous pain.

If I were in a constant state of pain, or had a degenerative neural disease I would hope my family would be understanding enough to let me die with dignity

That's not dignity at all though. There is a difference between what is right, and what is easy. As stated by Dumbledore.

And that is what it comes down to. Quality of life.
lol @ momentary second of relief. it's permanent??.

Yes indeed lol. I meant a moment of pain, and then so-called 'relief' ( which no-one can accept because no-one knows ). Hehe.

Such a nice, benevolent god. Allowing people to live in chronic pain.

I'm atheist. Yes

IF no-one suffered. There would be no doctors. There would be no distinction between the old, weak, the frail and the strong. Everyone would be the same.
From a scientific point of view (and I notice you are doing science ) Natural selection is essential for life.

If everyone remained strong there would be no need for you to do medical science. Perhaps god is right then

 

[katie_tully]

a) Natural life = Not natural if you kill yourself

And my point was, who wants to be on painkillers for the rest of their natural life?

A lot of people are dependant on painkillers. Sometimes, it's the only reason they're not commiting suicide.

You have 2 a. dot points.
Yes honey, that's called addiction. I don't know how you're going to qualify that statement though. Many people are on painkillers when they don't need to be. It's addiction not necessity, whereas these people have no choice but to be dosed on painkillers. You cannot function normally on high dosages of painkilling medication. That too is not 'natural life'.

b) But the fact is, painkillers work. And there are different types these days. Not only morphine. I do agree though, sometimes painkillers are a pain themselves. But isn't it worth the risk? Rather then killing yourself, you could live a while longer with a little pain. You won't kill yourself just because you're having a baby now would you? I heard thats tremendous pain.

You're obviously missing the definition of pain. This is not 'i stubbed my toe, it hurts' pain. This is relentless, chronic pain that even the strongest pain killers cannot mask. Short of being put into an induced coma, there is no relief from the pain that accompanies such diseases as cancer, Parkinsons Disease, Motor Neurone Disease...etc.

I've had a baby. It's painful. But now you're just being an idiot. All pain is not relative. All pain is not equal. Labour pain doesn't last years.

Yes indeed lol. I meant a moment of pain, and then so-called 'relief' ( which no-one can accept because no-one knows ). Hehe.

What?

IF no-one suffered. There would be no doctors. There would be no distinction between the old, weak, the frail and the strong. Everyone would be the same.
From a scientific point of view (and I notice you are doing science ) Natural selection is essential for life.

If everyone remained strong there would be no need for you to do medical science. Perhaps god is right then

That doesn't even justify a response. Natural selection. They're going to die anyway, why not allow them to die peacefully and at their own hands.

That's not dignity at all though. There is a difference between what is right, and what is easy

I dare you to say that to somebody who is living with chronic pain. Your use of the word easy sickens me.

 

[beentherdunthat]

I don't have two a) points. I have an a) point and a sentence that starts with the letter A. That is why it is in capitals and does not have a bracket around it.

Being on painkillers isn't a natural life? No, it is the WAY of life. You want to live for your family? You NEED them. But then again you want to die? Go ahead, take the death sentence for yourself. I'm not stopping you.

Do you realise what the Government would be doing if it agreed to Euthanasia. Everyone would finally find it fine to kill themselves once they get diagnosed with cancer and can't stand the pain. There might not even be a distinction between Euthanasia and suicide anymore. Because agreeing to Euthanasia is also agreeing to suicide.

I used natural selection not to suggest that they are going to die anyway, but to say that there is a scientific reason for why people range in health. You aren't reading my posts properly.

I never said chronic pain was easy. I said that the way they choose to end their life is easy if they decide to end their life for themselves. You are not taking family members into consideration here. Maybe living until death is forced upon you is what is right at least for the conscience of your loved ones. Imagine knowing that someone had a longer period to live. Imagine they found a cure, after you killed yourself. I bet your loved one would be happy to live then knowing you could have survived.

And thanks for calling me an 'idiot'. I am sorry I have different viewpoints on the matter. I respect yours. Though I don't expect the same gratitude. In any case, nice talking to you. I find it hard to discuss when you take things too personally.

 

[jb_nc]

good on them

 

[katie_tully]

You are not taking family members into consideration here

I took them into consideration. RE: previous post

As far as I am concerned, they are irrelevant. They're not the ones in pain.

And thanks for calling me an 'idiot'.

Your point was idiotic. You're claiming that all pain is relative. It isn't, it's moronic to even compare child birth with debilitating, chronic pain or a decreased quality of life.

 

[KFunk]

I saw a movie recently which I thought contained a good example of euthanasia (The Barbarian Invasions - which won an oscar and many other awards). I think the end of the main character would be well described as a 'good death'. If there is anyone who has seen it who is against euthanasia I would be interested to know your opinion.

 

[_dhj_]

I saw a movie recently which I thought contained a good example of euthanasia (The Barbarian Invasions - which won an oscar and many other awards). I think the end of the main character would be well described as a 'good death'. If there is anyone who has seen it who is against euthanasia I would be interested to know your opinion.

Hi KFunk,

The Barbarian Invasions is a interesting movie (although slightly overrated imo), but a single fictional representation of the process of euthanasia in one case does not present any arguments for or against euthanasia. I'm sure that somewhere in the world, some group of people would be made better off by any legal instrument. However you have to consider society as a whole. The reason why I'm against euthanasia in general is the wrong message it sends to society, the wrong signals it sends to the euthanased (aggravating the weak mental state rather than alleviating it), and of course the risk that it will be abused by malicious third parties.

 

[KFunk]

Hi KFunk,

The Barbarian Invasions is a interesting movie (although slightly overrated imo), but a single fictional representation of the process of euthanasia in one case does not present any arguments for or against euthanasia. I'm sure that somewhere in the world, some group of people would be made better off by any legal instrument. However you have to consider society as a whole. The reason why I'm against euthanasia in general is the wrong message it sends to society, the wrong signals it sends to the euthanased (aggravating the weak mental state rather than alleviating it), and of course the risk that it will be abused by malicious third parties.

Hey dhj - my reply would be that whether or not the film presents an argument for euthanasia depends on what constitutes 'an argument for euthanasia'. There are two issues at stake, as I'm sure you realise:
- whether euthanasia is ever morally permissible (in either a relative or an absolute sense)
- whether it would be appropriate, all things consider, to legalise euthanasia

In my opinion The Barbarian Invasions makes a good case for euthanasia as morally permissible in some situations (indeed, only one such example is required!). More importantly, it doesn't require an outlandish situation - granted, it is idealised but it is nonetheless fairly commonplace in many respects. I do agree with you, however, that the film does not make a case for legalising euthanasia - though showing that euthanasia is sometimes morally permissible is still an important step in this process! I don't have a particularly firm view on the legalisation of euthanasia but my gut instinct is that legalisation, with the proper restrictions (etc), would be for the better. I should probably sit down one day and have a wade through the literature on this issue given my intended future career...

 

[Season]

I really don't think Euthansia should be classified as suicide, I really don't.

I think Euthanasia should be legal in Australia because I do feel that people who live with chronic pain deserve the right to die unpainfully. Subject of course to a psych assessment, just to make sure they're not doing it for depression. Its very easy to separate suicides from people who want to kill themselves due to chronic pain. One has usually considered all of the options, while the other can only see a tiny perspective that is their own.

As for the person who said that anyone who got cancer would want to die... this is actually not the case. Most people with terminal illnesses fight for life, they want it they can taste it.

The people who usually want to kill themselves are the ones who live with Chronic pain, the stuff that will never kill you, but you'll have it forever and its so bad you're on your limit of painkillers.

Making it legal would prevent the need for all the seniors to have poison lying around the house where little depressed persons could possibly get at it. Or the seniors using it for the wrong reasons (aka depression, loneliness etc. )

 

[Iron]

Hi KFunk,

The Barbarian Invasions is a interesting movie (although slightly overrated imo), but a single fictional representation of the process of euthanasia in one case does not present any arguments for or against euthanasia. I'm sure that somewhere in the world, some group of people would be made better off by any legal instrument. However you have to consider society as a whole. The reason why I'm against euthanasia in general is the wrong message it sends to society, the wrong signals it sends to the euthanased (aggravating the weak mental state rather than alleviating it), and of course the risk that it will be abused by malicious third parties.

Hi dhj,
I agree with you.
Furthertomore, I cant help but think it's a rather cowardly way out. I accept that we use medicide to eliminate all sorts of natural problems, but when it comes to your actuall life, I think it's more dignified to take the pain and serve as a confronting image of mortality to us virile young studs. It serves to make others re-assess their priorities, and indeed makes the die-ee fully reflect on how they've invested their own time.
Why should we bail out on this harsh reality? Anything else is impossibly vain.

 

[katie_tully]

As for the person who said that anyone who got cancer would want to die..

Never said people with cancer would want to die. Terminal cancer patients who spend the last few months of their life dosed on pain killers, people who are so immobilised with pain - they should have the right to end their lives. The option should be there for them. Some of them aren't going to take the option, some will fight until the end.

I resent the use of the word 'coward' to describe anybody who chooses euthanasia to end their pain. Cowardly is jumping in front of a train because you think your life sucks. Having lived a fulfilled life and wanting to die with whatever dignity you have left is not the definition of cowardly.

 

[beentherdunthat]

Cowardly is jumping in front of a train because you think your life sucks. .

So you agree. Suicide is cowardly?

Having lived a fulfilled life and wanting to die with whatever dignity you have left...

But now because your life sucks, and you want to save your dignity, its okay to kill yourself?

You contradict yourself.