Catholic Church and HIV/AIDS in Africa. (9 Viewers)

[Sir-BigBoyJames]

i blame the muslims. srsly.

 

[joseph777]

Simple fact: The Catholic Church does not PHYSICALLY stop people from taking or using condoms. If people want them, fine, their choice to use them, but the Church has it's opinion on these matters and it has simply voiced its opinion.

The Catholic Church does not impose any laws on anyone. It simply suggests an idea which is wholly unrealistic and could only happen in a perfect world. The reason it's unrealistic is because it comes down to an individuals choice. Therefore, stop bagging the Church and start blaming the individual.

 

[Cookie182]

Nice analogy. Here's mine:

I'm going skydiving and the instructor tells me that there's an 85% chance that the parachute will open. Would i still jump?

So you try and rationally justify abstinence on a risk-averse basis?

Let's see how far this leads, without quoting the Bible

If the probability of contracting any STI and pregnancy (mose well throw it in) through the use of a condom was 0, would you have sex?

 

[Iron]

Exactly broseph. Free will is just a fact. I mean, even Christ knew that Judas would betray him and thereby cause his violent and painful death, but he respected the freedom Judas had to make this terrible choice

 

[Cookie182]

Exactly broseph. Free will is just a fact. I mean, even Christ knew that Judas would betray him and thereby cause his violent and painful death, but he respected the freedom Judas had to make this terrible choice

Do you think though that the literal interpretation of that message, in which we should love our enemies and allow them to harm us, is a good message?

It basically completely debunks one own's cherishment of autonomy

 

[kalamari]

i blame the muslims. srsly.

Useless comment, but I'll point out all it's flaws anyways. Countries in Africa that are muslim dominated actually have the lowest percenatge of HIV/AIDS.

Simple fact: The Catholic Church does not PHYSICALLY stop people from taking or using condoms. If people want them, fine, their choice to use them, but the Church has it's opinion on these matters and it has simply voiced its opinion.

The Catholic Church does not impose any laws on anyone. It simply suggests an idea which is wholly unrealistic and could only happen in a perfect world. The reason it's unrealistic is because it comes down to an individuals choice. Therefore, stop bagging the Church and start blaming the individual.

Well said, If less people blamed the church and started recognising the individuals responsibilty far more progress would be made in the HIV/AIDS situation

 

[Tulipa]

Well said, If less people blamed the church and started recognising the individuals responsibilty far more progress would be made in the HIV/AIDS situation

Yes because let's blame the uneducated masses whose only contact with the Western world is through the Church's teachings

 

[Tully B.]

Well said, If less people blamed the church and started recognising the individuals responsibilty far more progress would be made in the HIV/AIDS situation

How would recognising the "individuals responsibility" in any way make progress in the HIV/AIDs situation? How?

The Catholic Church prevents the education of people all around the world with regards to safe sex. The problem with this in most countries is simply teen pregnancy, where as in Africa and South America it is a key reason for the magnitude of AIDs in Africa and South America.

 

[Tully B.]

Yes because let's blame the uneducated masses whose only contact with the Western world is through the Church's teachings

Exactly. Could not have put it better myself.

 

[CheekyGrin]

How would recognising the "individuals responsibility" in any way make progress in the HIV/AIDs situation? How?

The Catholic Church prevents the education of people all around the world with regards to safe sex. The problem with this in most countries is simply teen pregnancy, where as in Africa and South America it is a key reason for the magnitude of AIDs in Africa and South America.

That, and the fact their going against the catholic practices by actually having pre-marital sex in the first place.

 

[Tully B.]

That, and the fact their going against the catholic practices by actually having pre-marital sex in the first place.

In response to this:

Yes because let's blame the uneducated masses whose only contact with the Western world is through the Church's teachings

 

[kalamari]

Yes because let's blame the uneducated masses whose only contact with the Western world is through the Church's teachings

The Catholic Church prevents the education of people all around the world with regards to safe sex. The problem with this in most countries is simply teen pregnancy, where as in Africa and South America it is a key reason for the magnitude of AIDs in Africa and South America.

Maybe so, but the Church teaches abstinence and fidelity to one partner. These things in the long run are much more effective in the fight against aids. In response to your talks about the HIV/AIDS issue in South America, I'm not informed on the topic but i will do some research and express my opinions on their situation.

How would recognising the "individuals responsibility" in any way make progress in the HIV/AIDs situation? How?

By recognising this an individual would be encouraged to implement healthy lifestyle attitudes towards sexual relations. If people do implement healthy lifestyle attitudes (such as abstinence before marriage, fidelity to one partner etc) then this would in turn make progress in the HIV/AIDS situation, would it not?

 

[Tulipa]

The thing is, while that's good in theory, in practice it breaks down (just like Communism heh) because people aren't mindless slaves who obey everything someone tells them to. One of the great things that God apparently gave us was free will.

Ideals aren't a practical solution to a problem that has many issues at its root. Ideals in conjunction with education, on the other hand, is. I personally think the best thing to say is "abstinence and fidelity to one partner is the only foolproof way to avoid AIDS but if you are going to have sex for whatever reason, use a freaking condom."

What is so wrong about that statement?

 

[Tully B.]

By recognising this an individual would be encouraged to implement healthy lifestyle attitudes towards sexual relations. If people do implement healthy lifestyle attitudes (such as abstinence before marriage, fidelity to one partner etc) then this would in turn make progress in the HIV/AIDS situation, would it not?

Of course abstinence would reduce AIDs in Africa, but my argument is that its irresponsible to condemn the use of condoms for those who are sexually active before marriage. It's like telling druggies not use drugs, but if they do, only to use dirty needles.

 

[Tully B.]

The thing is, while that's good in theory, in practice it breaks down (just like Communism heh) because people aren't mindless slaves who obey everything someone tells them to. One of the great things that God apparently gave us was free will.

Ideals aren't a practical solution to a problem that has many issues at its root. Ideals in conjunction with education, on the other hand, is. I personally think the best thing to say is "abstinence and fidelity to one partner is the only foolproof way to avoid AIDS but if you are going to have sex for whatever reason, use a freaking condom."

What is so wrong about that statement?

Nothing, dammit. Nothing is wrong with that statement.

 

[Lentern]

Exactly broseph. Free will is just a fact. I mean, even Christ knew that Judas would betray him and thereby cause his violent and painful death, but he respected the freedom Judas had to make this terrible choice

Only after he had a little panic attack in the garden and the father needed to send an angel to settle him down.

 

[Cookie182]

On what rational basis as a species is it wrong to have sex before marriage anyway (from a well-rounded, scientific, evolutionary P.O.V.) beyond the ramifications of STI's/pregancy?

 

[moll.]

On what rational basis as a species is it wrong to have sex before marriage anyway (from a well-rounded, scientific, evolutionary P.O.V.) beyond the ramifications of STI's/pregancy?

God will smite ye into the dirt!

Yay for another Catholic-bashing thread!

 

[kalamari]

The thing is, while that's good in theory, in practice it breaks down (just like Communism heh) because people aren't mindless slaves who obey everything someone tells them to. One of the great things that God apparently gave us was free will.

Ideals aren't a practical solution to a problem that has many issues at its root. Ideals in conjunction with education, on the other hand, is. I personally think the best thing to say is "abstinence and fidelity to one partner is the only foolproof way to avoid AIDS but if you are going to have sex for whatever reason, use a freaking condom."

What is so wrong about that statement?

Its a good statement. However, how can the Catholic Church be blamed when people don't use condoms. In the end despite whatever influence the Catholic Church has it is still the individual who chooses not to use a condom and therefore I fail to understand why fingers are being pointed at the Catholic Church.

On what rational basis as a species is it wrong to have sex before marriage anyway (from a well-rounded, scientific, evolutionary P.O.V.) beyond the ramifications of STI's/pregancy?

If your not looking at it from a religious point of view, then it probably isn't wrong at all. There are thousands of studies out there that come from a "well-rounded, scientific, evolutionary P.O.V." and agree with what your saying.

However, different people have different morals. The rationale behind Christian thinking stems from the fact that God designed sexual relations to happen in a safe environment, where two people share the same love and devotion for each another. Its only in marriage that sex is at its best.

 

[Tully B.]

However, different people have different morals. The rationale behind Christian thinking stems from the fact that God designed sexual relations to happen in a safe environment, where two people share the same love and devotion for each another. Its only in marriage that sex is at its best.

Sex in marriage is all well and good, but why should people who don't abide by this rule receive anything else but shame? What the Catholic Church does, in condemning the use of condoms, is punish people who do not abide by their oh-so-sacred marriage law by increasing the risk (by a large margin) of them getting AIDS. Disproportionate much?