Obama calls for the reduction of Israeli West Bank settlements (1 Viewer)

[SAVAK]

there is only one solution : One state. Israel has never wanted peace and will never give up its belief in a greater Israel. I can never recognize it, those who believe in some utopia where the Jews will come and spend time with Palestinians in the nightclubs of Tel Aviv need to wake up and smell the coffee!!! IMHO, anyone who believes in recognizing this entity is a traitor to peace, freedom, and liberty.

it seems some of us only see things through a narrow view (aka pro Israel fuckers). As a member of the Anti Israel league we are commanded to strive till the end for peace, .but there can be no peace without justice. END OF STORY.

Fuck ISRAEL.
FREE PALESTINE.

 

[SAVAK]

Well, obviously each party has to go forego some liberty. I miss Yitzhak Rabin.

Are you fucking down syndrome? are you? What sacrifice has Israel made? what? This school of thought is the only reason why we have such blood shed across the region. People like yourself are always asking for both sides to sacrifice. the Palestinians have sacrificed beyond what was necessary for them to do so.

Lets get this out in the open. For the Palestinians its a simple land issue, for the Israelis its about religion and their promise form God as the chosen people and all that fucking bullshit.

Do you know what 'peace' means to Israel? It means no Palestinians. This is the reality, just read their own comments and literature, they care nothing for Arabs and others. THEY DONT CARE.

lol Palestinians need to sacrifice. lol.

 

[JonathanM]

there is only one solution : One state. Israel has never wanted peace and will never give up its belief in a greater Israel. I can never recognize it, those who believe in some utopia where the Jews will come and spend time with Palestinians in the nightclubs of Tel Aviv need to wake up and smell the coffee!!! IMHO, anyone who believes in recognizing this entity is a traitor to peace, freedom, and liberty.

Most Israeli's want peace, so the above statement is a generalisation. Most Israeli's fear though, and probably rightfully, that even if Israel did return to its pre-1967 borders, no lasting peace would be reached and it's enemies would continue trying to dislodge them.

it seems some of us only see things through a narrow view (aka pro Israel fuckers). As a member of the Anti Israel league we are commanded to strive till the end for peace, .but there can be no peace without justice.

Justice here is overrated. It will lead to even more bloodshed and longer lasting animosity. Forgiving and forgetting by both sides is the only way forward to peace and the only method to peace is through a two state solution.

Jessica, you also have to realise that parts of East Jerusalem as well as parts of Israeli-controlled West Bank would have to be given up, at the very least to combined control of the Israeli's and Palestinians, to achieve lasting peace.

Savak, take heed to the words of Yoda; "Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

 

[SAVAK]

Most Israeli's want peace, so the above statement is a generalisation. Most Israeli's fear though, and probably rightfully, that even if Israel did return to its pre-1967 borders, no lasting peace would be reached and it's enemies would continue trying to dislodge them.

Does it matter what the people of Israel want? does it? Of course it doesn't. Israel is a ogliarchy state are run by Zionist and idealistic Jews who have their agendas based in the Torah. They are desperately seeking the return of their messiah and that is what is fueling their actions. Read through the biographies of the Israeli leaders of the past and present. They want to expand their borders and that is why they are welcoming home Jews from all over the world who would otherwise have to beg and plead to be accepted as Jews.

The land grabbing and diluting of the Palestinian population with Jewish settlements is a clear proof of their wish for domination and not peace.

Justice here is overrated. It will lead to even more bloodshed and longer lasting animosity. Forgiving and forgetting by both sides is the only way forward to peace and the only method to peace is through a two state solution.

lol forgiving and forgetting. yeah mate, what are you smoking. Lets face it, such line of thought relies too hevily on the goodwill of the Isrealis which we all know about.

 

[Sprangler]

It is not just about religion for the Israelis, just as it is not only about land for the Palestinians. I watched an ABC documentary last night on the Qur'an and there was a Hamas representative in an interview talking about "the occupation of Muslim lands". But before that there was a part about how Muslims had conqured all the middle east and parts of Africa, and the Hamas guys quote went something like:

"The Jews have taken Muslim lands, we almost covered the whole map"

See the contradiction?

If the surrounding muslim countries really cared about the Palestinians they could help absorb them from the refugee camps and turn away from supporting terror.

Does it matter what the people of Israel want? does it? Of course it doesn't. Israel is a ogliarchy state are run by Zionist and idealistic Jews who have their agendas based in the Torah. They are desperately seeking the return of their messiah and that is what is fueling their actions. Read through the biographies of the Israeli leaders of the past and present. They want to expand their borders and that is why they are welcoming home Jews from all over the world who would otherwise have to beg and plead to be accepted as Jews.

Most of the early founders of Israel, for instance Ben-Gurion and his party Mapai, were secular nationalists.

 

[Jessica14]

Are you fucking down syndrome? are you? What sacrifice has Israel made? what? This school of thought is the only reason why we have such blood shed across the region. People like yourself are always asking for both sides to sacrifice. the Palestinians have sacrificed beyond what was necessary for them to do so.

Lets get this out in the open. For the Palestinians its a simple land issue, for the Israelis its about religion and their promise form God as the chosen people and all that fucking bullshit.

Do you know what 'peace' means to Israel? It means no Palestinians. This is the reality, just read their own comments and literature, they care nothing for Arabs and others. THEY DONT CARE.

lol Palestinians need to sacrifice. lol.

You know, you don't have to be rude. You raised some valid points. The Palestinians have obviously suffered in pursuit of a land to call their own. I didn't deny this, nor did I say they should give that struggle up. But perhaps their leaders should look another direction when they seek it.

Groups like حركة المقاومة الاسلامية (harakah al-muqaawamah al-islaamiyyah), better known as Hamas, should be focusing more on building up Palestine rather than destroying Israel.

And similraly, the Israeli Knesset and its constituencies should abandon their ridiculous practice of settlements in the West Bank because it's "God's Will."

Jessica, you also have to realise that parts of East Jerusalem as well as parts of Israeli-controlled West Bank would have to be given up, at the very least to combined control of the Israeli's and Palestinians, to achieve lasting peace.

Agreed. But Israel is going to keep Jerusalem off the bargaining table and for as long as that demand stands, any form of peace in the region is going to be a far-off dream. The Palestinians would have East Jerusalem as their capital and the Israeli's won't allow the dissection of theirs. I don't think we'll see a peaceful resolution anytime soon.

 

[SAVAK]

You know, you don't have to be rude. You raised some valid points. The Palestinians have obviously suffered in pursuit of a land to call their own. I didn't deny this, nor did I say they should give that struggle up. But perhaps their leaders should look another direction when they seek it.

Groups like حركة المقاومة الاسلامية (harakah al-muqaawamah al-islaamiyyah), better known as Hamas, should be focusing more on building up Palestine rather than destroying Israel.

what? lol. Hamas are ordinary humans with self respect not to give in to oppression.

If someone oppresses your family would you just bow your head and accept it or would you fight back?

And Hamas is getting no one in trouble. The Palestinians and Hamas are the same people, Hamas came into existence from the Palestinian rage, they are recruits from Palestinian families.

And similarly, the Israeli Knesset and its constituencies should abandon their ridiculous practice of settlements in the West Bank because it's "God's Will."

If Israel wanted to they could wipe out west bank and Gaza strip. why? because they can. The Palestinians have nothing to bargain with.

 

[SAVAK]

If the surrounding muslim countries really cared about the Palestinians they could help absorb them from the refugee camps and turn away from supporting terror.

What a stupid statement. If the world really cared about the Palestinians they wouldn't created a fucking jew state in the middle of the Arab world.

 

[Jessica14]

what? lol. Hamas are ordinary humans with self respect not to give in to oppression.

If someone oppresses your family would you just bow your head and accept it or would you fight back?

And Hamas is getting no one in trouble. The Palestinians and Hamas are the same people, Hamas came into existence from the Palestinian rage, they are recruits from Palestinian families.

There is a difference between the Jihadi struggle (yes, I know I just said struggle twice) that they've undertaken and a protest against occupation by their neighbours. They need diplomats, not militia.

If Israel wanted to they could wipe out west bank and Gaza strip. why? because they can. The Palestinians have nothing to bargain with.

They won't. Unless this really does turn into Wipeout Palestine. (c)

 

[SAVAK]

There is a difference between the Jihadi struggle (yes, I know I just said struggle twice) that they've undertaken and a protest against occupation by their neighbours. They need diplomats, not militia.

You dont get it do you? All this talk of "diplomacy" and all that yada yada has been done in the past and will continue to be done. It doesn't matter what we say to each other as the situation indeed is self evident. We know whats coming and what is being planeed and had been planned for the last few years from the Oslo accords to Yassir Arafat's near agreements. The fact remains that the victims are portrayed as the aggressors while one of the most sophisticated army in the world is portrayed as a victim. fucking lol.

 

[DavidBenGurion]

Groups like حركة المقاومة الاسلامية (harakah al-muqaawamah al-islaamiyyah), better known as Hamas, should be focusing more on building up Palestine rather than destroying Israel.

Look, no-one is impressed by your Google search translations of Hamas.

Second, there's no point in Hamas building up Gaza when Israel is going to bomb the shit not only out of Hamas infrastructure, but civilian and even fucking UN infrastructure.

Agreed. But Israel is going to keep Jerusalem off the bargaining table and for as long as that demand stands, any form of peace in the region is going to be a far-off dream. The Palestinians would have East Jerusalem as their capital and the Israeli's won't allow the dissection of theirs. I don't think we'll see a peaceful resolution anytime soon.

What the fuck? So if something is required for a peace deal but the Israelis want it then it's automatically off limits? Explain your position.

 

[Sprangler]

What a stupid statement. If the world really cared about the Palestinians they wouldn't created a fucking jew state in the middle of the Arab world.

Why? The Jews and Arabs have a history of living peacefully with each other.

You dont get it do you? All this talk of "diplomacy" and all that yada yada has been done in the past and will continue to be done. It doesn't matter what we say to each other as the situation indeed is self evident. We know whats coming and what is being planeed and had been planned for the last few years from the Oslo accords to Yassir Arafat's near agreements.

Yeah, all this "diplomacy" and "politics" bullshit does nothing, right? Only violence solves problems.

The fact remains that the victims are portrayed as the aggressors while one of the most sophisticated army in the world is portrayed as a victim. fucking lol.

Not really. There are victims on both sides.

Look, no-one is impressed by your Google search translations of Hamas.

Second, there's no point in Hamas building up Gaza when Israel is going to bomb the shit not only out of Hamas infrastructure, but civilian and even fucking UN infrastructure.

If Hamas can turn away from violence, then yes there is a point. They should realize by now that fighting Israel on the miltary front is only going to lead to more deaths for them and their people.

 

[DavidBenGurion]

Why? The Jews and Arabs have a history of living peacefully with each other.

I don't know or care if this is true. But what happened in the fucking middle ages has no place in contemporary debate you nimrod asshole.

Yeah, all this "diplomacy" and "politics" bullshit does nothing, right? Only violence solves problems

Oh hi I can answer questions with questions too.

WHAT GOOD HAS DIPLOMACY DONE FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

Not really. There are victims on both sides.

True. It's just that usually there's about 13 Israeli victims and about 1417 Palestinian victims

 

[Sprangler]

I don't know or care if this is true. But what happened in the fucking middle ages has no place in contemporary debate you nimrod asshole.

If you would read the original quote, he was implying that the "world" should have known, if they denied history, that creating a Jewish state would lead to inevitable conflict.

Oh hi I can answer questions with questions too.

WHAT GOOD HAS DIPLOMACY DONE FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

I'm not sure which dictionary you got the definition of 'diplomacy' from, that includes rocket attacks on civilians, suicide bombings and massacres, but you should probably throw it away.

True. It's just that usually there's about 13 Israeli victims and about 1417 Palestinian victims

Which further proves my point. Civilian casualties are an inevitable consequence of war, and they know this but start war anyway. Why I ask you?

 

[SAVAK]

If Hamas can turn away from violence, then yes there is a point. They should realize by now that fighting Israel on the miltary front is only going to lead to more deaths for them and their people.

oh my god. are you thick? This my friends is a typical zionist out burst. oMg ThE ArAb Is ViOlEnT AnImAlS. seriouslyt what the heck? the third most sophisticated army in the world is afraid of a dozen homemade rockets. Give me a break, how many qassama have killed isrealis?? what is the Israeli response? bomb the fuck out of whatever is left of Palestine into the stone ages.

 

[SAVAK]

If you would read the original quote, he was implying that the "world" should have known, if they denied history, that creating a Jewish state would lead to inevitable conflict.

It was European problem and therefore the Europeans should have dealt with it. I dont know, give west Germany to Israel? But they former colonial powers had no right to give a chunk of land belonging to the indigenous people to a bunch of left over jews.

 

[DavidBenGurion]

If you would read the original quote, he was implying that the world should have known, if they denied history, that creating a Jewish state would lead to inevitable conflict.

And what was your point, dimwit?

I'm not sure which dictionary you got the definition of 'diplomacy' from, that includes rocket attacks on civilians, suicide bombings and massacres, but you should probably throw it away.

You seek proper debate but you attempt to suggest that Palestine has never tried diplomacy? Oh they did, but their land was then stolen at an increasing rate, sanctions were imposed and a giant wall was built.

Which further proves my point. Civilian casualties are an inevitable consequence of war, and they know this but start war anyway. Why I ask you?

Yeah they didn't start it, dickhead.

 

[DavidBenGurion]

It was European problem and therefore the Europeans should have dealt with it. I dont know, give west Germany to Israel? But they former colonial powers had no right to give a chunk of land belonging to the indigenous people to a bunch of left over jews.

Let them continue to roam around the European countryside in shanty towns imo

 

[Jessica14]

I agree with Sprangler on the issue of Hamas (or whatever this forum chooses to call them). Don't be so quick to jump to idea that diplomacy is no way to achieve a viable peace solution in Palestine/Israel. And don't be so ready to admonish any chance of Palestine building a stronger, more industrial state in need of outside assistance for such a progression.

Palestinian PM seeks aid money

Fayyad, right, is hoping to win more assistance from donors attending the Oslo conference AFP] Salam Fayyad, the Palestinian prime minister, has said his government is close to hitting a "brick wall" because it is not receiving enough aid to balance the budget.
The Palestinian Authority, or PA, has been forced to take loans because of the shortage of aid money, but that is not a sustainable solution, he told a donors' conference in Oslo, Norway, on Monday.
Blaming delinquent Arab donors, the International Monetary Fund said last week that the PA faces a serious cash crisis after receiving only half of the aid money it needs to function every month.
Many economic analysts say Arab donors are reluctant to pay up because of Palestinian infighting between the Fatah faction of Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, which controls the West Bank, and Hamas, which overran Gaza two years ago.
Small fraction
The budgetary aid received by Palestinians over the past five months totals $328 million, less than half of the $1.5bn needed to pay monthly expenditures, a senior IMF official said.
To offset the shortfall in donor funds, the PA has been forced to borrow from private banks, but it is close to reaching its borrowing limit, Oussama Kanaan, an IMF representative in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, said.
Fayyad said last week the PA faced a "suffocating financial crisis", but that he would still be able to pay public workers by June 7 thanks to the bank lending.
Kanaan said the PA could face a "serious liquidity crisis" unless donors increased their budget support to at least $120m per month.
Aid dropping off
Donor assistance surged in March to $178.7m, but dropped to only $25.7m in May, the IMF said.
"Donors have to act urgently to disperse the money, otherwise we'll have a big problem," Kanaan said.
Donor states have announced massive pledges for the Palestinians over the last two years in a public show of support for Abbas in his power struggle with Hamas, which won a 2006 Palestinian election.
These included $4.5bn in pledges at a conference in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, in March to help rebuild the Gaza Strip after an Israeli offensive, and to help fund Abbas's government in the West Bank.

 

[Jessica14]

What the fuck? So if something is required for a peace deal but the Israelis want it then it's automatically off limits? Explain your position.

The Palestinians require East Jerusalem as their capital if a two-state solution was to go ahead and the Israelis do not want to dissect their capital into the East and West, even though demographically speaking it already is very much divided, so they will not go ahead with the peace deal.

Capisci?