Concern regarding BA (1 Viewer)

[mr_robato]

Hay guys,

I'm currently a year 12, HSC student.

I have a concern which I hope you guys can answer. The thing is, there isn't a university course other then B Arts [Asian studies/international relations] (or similar) that appeals to me. My mates continually urge me to look else where because (apparently) BA is weightless when it comes to employment prospects.

Can anyone here kill this feeling of possible future regret? I have to apply for university in approx 3-4 weeks (that's when the applications open, I have till 30th september to decide).

Yep I read this thread:

http://community.boredofstudies.org/580/arts-humanities/144177/international-studies-q.html




Help appreciated.

 

[witide]

If that's what you enjoy and want to do, then go for it. Don't choose your degree based on the name, otherwise you'll just end up bored and transferring.

 

[mr_robato]

If that's what you enjoy and want to do, then go for it. Don't choose your degree based on the name, otherwise you'll just end up bored and transferring.

Same thought here. Deep down i m hell bent on getting into BA. Still am curious regarding job prospects.

Thanks mate.

 

[Lentern]

My view is that like most stigma's there is some truth in it but is also blown out of proportion. BA is probably close to the weakest degree in terms of employment prospects there isn't any denying that but it is not worthless. Employment prospects will still be more common and better paying on average than non tertiary graduates.

Your degree does tend to compliment your career though so if arts is what you want to do you'll be more likely get a job you enjoy doing. Furthermore you will perform better in a degree you enjoy doing which will to an extent counterbalance the employment limitations of arts.

 

[mr_robato]

I'm really after "Canberra jobs" (APS), I've looked into a few federal department (DFAT, DoD, PMC, DT&R etc).




The whole notion of weightlessness of BA has me quivering. I guess I'd have to strengthen my resume with internships/work experience/extra curricular activities and get those marks, all during university!

 

[mmm_brrraains]

i really think that a lot of the value of a BA is dependent on what your majors are (except for those who are looking to go into academia). If you want to do Asian Studies and International Relations I don't think you need to be too worried about a BA looking "soft" or whatever. Especially if you're looking to get into the public service. Hell, it's not like you're looking to major in 18th century French poetry or something else with quite limited employment opportunities!

But the most important thing, as others have already said, is to do the degree that YOU want to do. Having a passion for what you're studying means you'll do better academically and generally have a better time at uni.

best of luck!!

 

[just-a-stranger]

BA opens a lot of doors even when you decide to transfer later on. all i can say is.. i dont think youll really know if u like it until you've tried it out.

 

[Salem O'Brien]

Well it depends on what you want to do after you get your degree. 1stly jobs in the department of foreign affairs are VERY competitive, they usually higher ppl with some combination of law, eg economics/law politics/law etc and top grades in there combined degrees or masters degrees aswell. I don't know about the other federal depertments but i think u can assume that they'd be pretty competitive aswell.

The advantage of the BA is its flexibility, you can choose majors from pretty much every other degree, from economics to psychology and chemistry so it qualifies you for any job you could think of assuming you choose the right majors. Employment in your chosen field is also more dependent on the uni uyou study at then it is for other degree's.

In short aslong as you choose the right majors for your career and get good grades you'll have just as much chance of getting hired as someone in any other degree with the same majors. The DFAT is virtually impossible to get into for anyone in any degree other then law with spectacular grades.

 

[withoutaface]

I'm really after "Canberra jobs" (APS), I've looked into a few federal department (DFAT, DoD, PMC, DT&R etc).




The whole notion of weightlessness of BA has me quivering. I guess I'd have to strengthen my resume with internships/work experience/extra curricular activities and get those marks, all during university!

There aren't many arts internships going around.

http://www.careers.usyd.edu.au/career_advice/downloads/gds_2007_arts.pdf doesn't look all that promising either, with about 27% of grads working full time and most of those in industries as glamours as "Bartender at the Lansdowne Hotel"

 

[mr_robato]

i really think that a lot of the value of a BA is dependent on what your majors are (except for those who are looking to go into academia). If you want to do Asian Studies and International Relations I don't think you need to be too worried about a BA looking "soft" or whatever. Especially if you're looking to get into the public service. Hell, it's not like you're looking to major in 18th century French poetry or something else with quite limited employment opportunities!

But the most important thing, as others have already said, is to do the degree that YOU want to do. Having a passion for what you're studying means you'll do better academically and generally have a better time at uni.

best of luck!!

Hay! made me feel better right there. I totally see your point with the whole french poetry vs ASIR in terms of job availability. Teaching (history) is my "when everything fails" fall back plan, boring job, but 3 months holidays yearly aint so bad.

Well it depends on what you want to do after you get your degree. 1stly jobs in the department of foreign affairs are VERY competitive, they usually higher ppl with some combination of law, eg economics/law politics/law etc and top grades in there combined degrees or masters degrees aswell. I don't know about the other federal depertments but i think u can assume that they'd be pretty competitive aswell.

The advantage of the BA is its flexibility, you can choose majors from pretty much every other degree, from economics to psychology and chemistry so it qualifies you for any job you could think of assuming you choose the right majors. Employment in your chosen field is also more dependent on the uni uyou study at then it is for other degree's.

In short aslong as you choose the right majors for your career and get good grades you'll have just as much chance of getting hired as someone in any other degree with the same majors. The DFAT is virtually impossible to get into for anyone in any degree other then law with spectacular grades.

Point taken. Law and economics combined would make an action packed graduate.

TBH, my grades are somewhat, above average, but NOT great. Hence, since, UWS has a tendency of offering courses to students with UAI(now ATAR lol) much lower than the cut off, I'll throw in law here and there in my preferences. As long as it's not (in my opinion) boring commerce/economics stuff that needs learning, I'm cool with it.

Hence this has grabbed my attention:

UWS: Bachelor of Arts, Communication Studies, Social Science/Bachelor of Laws

There aren't many arts internships going around.

http://www.careers.usyd.edu.au/career_advice/downloads/gds_2007_arts.pdf doesn't look all that promising either, with about 27% of grads working full time and most of those in industries as glamours as "Bartender at the Lansdowne Hotel"

W-a-o-w. Eye opener. I guess subjects like "19th century french poetry" would have compelled graduates into unemployment or further study.

Note: no offense intended (if anyone's done french poetry )

 

[cottoneye]

If you would like to work in the public service a BA is a great choice. You should choose your degree based on what you enjoy as if you hate the course you are also likely to hate your job.

Well it depends on what you want to do after you get your degree. 1stly jobs in the department of foreign affairs are VERY competitive, they usually higher ppl with some combination of law, eg economics/law politics/law etc and top grades in there combined degrees or masters degrees aswell. I don't know about the other federal depertments but i think u can assume that they'd be pretty competitive aswell.

In short aslong as you choose the right majors for your career and get good grades you'll have just as much chance of getting hired as someone in any other degree with the same majors. The DFAT is virtually impossible to get into for anyone in any degree other then law with spectacular grades.

For some reason DFAT attracts a lot of scare mongering. It is massively competitive as most people see it as a chance to travel for free, get to live overseas, etc. Many people do not stick it out for very long as it turns out (unsurprisingly when you think about it) to be just like other public service work. The reputation for selectivity is because so many people who have no chance of working there apply and are rejected. All APS jobs are competitive and sought after. You don't need law, you need good grades, honours or masters (coming from a BA), life experience and good interview abilities. You can always go into the APS in another department and lateral into your chosen area later on also.

Don't go into law just because everyone says it will make you more employable. A BA grad with good grades is employable, you just need to understand what your skills are and sell them to potential employers.

 

[mr_robato]

If you would like to work in the public service a BA is a great choice. You should choose your degree based on what you enjoy as if you hate the course you are also likely to hate your job.




For some reason DFAT attracts a lot of scare mongering. It is massively competitive as most people see it as a chance to travel for free, get to live overseas, etc. Many people do not stick it out for very long as it turns out (unsurprisingly when you think about it) to be just like other public service work. The reputation for selectivity is because so many people who have no chance of working there apply and are rejected. All APS jobs are competitive and sought after. You don't need law, you need good grades, honours or masters (coming from a BA), life experience and good interview abilities. You can always go into the APS in another department and lateral into your chosen area later on also.

Don't go into law just because everyone says it will make you more employable. A BA grad with good grades is employable, you just need to understand what your skills are and sell them to potential employers.

Hay thanks!

Point taken.


Plus, thanks to everyone else for the contribution. I'll stick to BA.


Robato

 

[meilz92]

I'm really after "Canberra jobs" (APS), I've looked into a few federal department (DFAT, DoD, PMC, DT&R etc).

how about doing a combined degree? you could do like..

B commerce/B Arts
B Laws/B Arts


since you wanna work for federal agencies and all, i think it would be very beneficial for you to combine it with one of those degrees

i think im going to do B commerce/B arts and with the arts degree, major in psychology. im not sure yet but yeah... gotta go to the open days n check it out before i submit my UAC application. maybe you should do the same? not much time left tho =S

 

[Josie]

As a BA student living with someone who is doing Law... really, seriously, consider that choice.
I personally know several BA students working in APS, and one or two for DFAT. These are all from a regional university.

I seriously advocate going for what you *want* to study. If you are studying things you enjoy, your marks will be a tonne better, you're more likely to complete your studies, and you're more likely to get into a job you love.

They don't look at your application, see a BA, and throw it out. Even majors which are considered 'fluffy' or 'unrealistic' are actually highly valued for critical thinking, especially something like philosophy, which may sound insane, but I promise, if you can get decent marks in philosophy (for example), you could excel in the APS.

Perhaps if you're so keen on adding some value to it, start a BA, and do a law elective. It'll let you know pretty quickly if it's a good idea or not.

It is so important to do something you want to do.. So many people hate their way through university only to go on to jobs they hate too (Commerce -> Accounting, I'm looking at you). You will see many of these same people in Arts degrees as mature age students. The head of the School of Social Sciences, Media and Communication is a former Accounting/HR manager who realised what he was doing was just not for him.

Words, but yeah. Go with what you want!


Edit: Part of the perceived problem with BA's is that yes, P's can definitely = degrees, lots of people cruise through on a low credit average and then find they can't get a job at DFAT, and blame the degree.

 

[moc2009]

I agree with the above post. Study what you WANT to do.

DFAT don’t only look at Law and Commerce, one of my mates did a BA with a major is music and got straight into DFAT (graduate program).

Also my flat mate works as an APS 6, he did a degree in IT (his job is not IT related at all), His degree also had 3 fails on it – he applied directly to them, not through a graduate program and got straight in at a higher level than most of the the graduate program people (So it’s obviously not all based on grades). He’s also already done a posting overseas.

Government jobs are looking at the person, in a lot of cases they don’t care what degree you did, as long as you actually did a degree as it shows you can stick to a task and complete it, that you have critical thinking, good writing and communication skills.

The people they don’t want are the ones who apply because they want to be a diplomat straight out of uni and travel the world – it’s not going to happen like that. I’m doing International Relations and it’s full of these people... it’s sad, really sad.

Do the Degree that you want to do, get the best grades you can and you will get the job you want.

Also look at ASIS, no one ever knows about them... they always go on and on about wanting to work for ASIO. ASIO are the little guys, ASIS are the big ones.

 

[mr_robato]

I went to the UWS open day on Sunday. The Economics lecturer, showed us a graph showing the number of CEOs of top ten Australian companies and thier educational back grounds (in regards to their bachelors).

Economics was up top, most number of CEOs had an Economics degree (about 40 or so). Law was third on the ranking. Surprisingly, the second heighest number of CEOs had an Arts/Humanities background. My sister, knowing I am mainly interested in arts nudged me with her elbow

The bloke couldn't stress enough that Law, Economics and Arts are the true intellectual fields. I couldn't agree more. Accountancy, Commerce or Engineering graduate CEOs were is alot less supply on his table.

how about doing a combined degree? you could do like..

B commerce/B Arts
B Laws/B Arts


since you wanna work for federal agencies and all, i think it would be very beneficial for you to combine it with one of those degrees

i think im going to do B commerce/B arts and with the arts degree, major in psychology. im not sure yet but yeah... gotta go to the open days n check it out before i submit my UAC application. maybe you should do the same? not much time left tho =S

We're on the same page. I intend on filling up my electives with Law units. So if I find that my (hopefully) good BA marks aren't working in my favor I'll be able to get that B Law with 2 more years at Uni.

As a BA student living with someone who is doing Law... really, seriously, consider that choice.
I personally know several BA students working in APS, and one or two for DFAT. These are all from a regional university.

I seriously advocate going for what you *want* to study. If you are studying things you enjoy, your marks will be a tonne better, you're more likely to complete your studies, and you're more likely to get into a job you love.

They don't look at your application, see a BA, and throw it out. Even majors which are considered 'fluffy' or 'unrealistic' are actually highly valued for critical thinking, especially something like philosophy, which may sound insane, but I promise, if you can get decent marks in philosophy (for example), you could excel in the APS.

Perhaps if you're so keen on adding some value to it, start a BA, and do a law elective. It'll let you know pretty quickly if it's a good idea or not.

It is so important to do something you want to do.. So many people hate their way through university only to go on to jobs they hate too (Commerce -> Accounting, I'm looking at you). You will see many of these same people in Arts degrees as mature age students. The head of the School of Social Sciences, Media and Communication is a former Accounting/HR manager who realised what he was doing was just not for him.

Words, but yeah. Go with what you want!


Edit: Part of the perceived problem with BA's is that yes, P's can definitely = degrees, lots of people cruise through on a low credit average and then find they can't get a job at DFAT, and blame the degree.

Woaw. Thanks for taking the time out to type up so much advise.

I think I'll go with the Humanities (BA/Intl stu).


I hate accounting to start with With all due respect to any aspiring or current accountants here, I think y'all are bimbos and only doing it due to the availability of Job and cash in this field

I agree with the above post. Study what you WANT to do.

DFAT don’t only look at Law and Commerce, one of my mates did a BA with a major is music and got straight into DFAT (graduate program).

Also my flat mate works as an APS 6, he did a degree in IT (his job is not IT related at all), His degree also had 3 fails on it – he applied directly to them, not through a graduate program and got straight in at a higher level than most of the the graduate program people (So it’s obviously not all based on grades). He’s also already done a posting overseas.

Government jobs are looking at the person, in a lot of cases they don’t care what degree you did, as long as you actually did a degree as it shows you can stick to a task and complete it, that you have critical thinking, good writing and communication skills.

The people they don’t want are the ones who apply because they want to be a diplomat straight out of uni and travel the world – it’s not going to happen like that. I’m doing International Relations and it’s full of these people... it’s sad, really sad.

Do the Degree that you want to do, get the best grades you can and you will get the job you want.

Also look at ASIS, no one ever knows about them... they always go on and on about wanting to work for ASIO. ASIO are the little guys, ASIS are the big ones.

Cheers dude. I've had a look-see at pretty much all the APS jobs available, from dept defence tall the way down to AUSAID/Dept-Venterens affairs.

I'm all over this APS thing.





Thanks all for the time-out and advise.

 

[mr_robato]

University preferences have been edited from the various Business options brown to the bottom half and the Humanities brought up to the top half.

Cheers guys.

 

[0bs3n3]

Hmm, wondering what you actually do in jobs at APS or any other relevant place? BA seems to be my natural calling, but I'm really concerned about where it flows to from there.

 

[xeuyrawp]

My view is that like most stigma's there is some truth in it but is also blown out of proportion.

I completely disagree. The best universities in the world offer BAs and little else to undergrads.

If you think whatever your degree is called is important, I would suspect your inability to grasp the fundamentals of making yourself a valuable commodity will be much more of a problem than what you study.

 

[mr_robato]

I completely disagree. The best universities in the world offer BAs and little else to undergrads.

If you think whatever your degree is called is important, I would suspect your inability to grasp the fundamentals of making yourself a valuable commodity will be much more of a problem than what you study.

I realized that, totally. It's something I want to work on

Can't be impossible to do so.

My view isn't as grim any more, Arts is what I've punched into my preferences.