Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Is Obama a pussy? (2 Viewers)

[Iron]

not very gay. He did kill the guy, right?

 

[Sprangler]

Yeah, well, how did that work out for them...
A homosexual society is a weak and condemned one. It will soon fall to a stronger people who understand and value the full strength of the family unit

Do you truly believe any of the shit that you say?

 

[Slidey]

slidey, dont apply 4 mod pls

Request granted.

 

[Riet]

I don't see why its an issue tbh, I'd say the number of soldiers who'd all of a sudden come out is extemely low, most would probably not tell or whatever anyway, but they wouldn't be at risk of losing their jobs if they did.

 

[loquasagacious]

I don't see why its an issue tbh, I'd say the number of soldiers who'd all of a sudden come out is extemely low, most would probably not tell or whatever anyway, but they wouldn't be at risk of losing their jobs if they did.

It shouldn't be something which has to be hidden. imo if I'm free to talk about my weekend and the women that I slept with then a homosexual should be free to talk about the men/women they slept with.

I'm not saying that anyone has to talk about it but they should be able to if they want. Realistically gender is a key part of who we are as people and no one should be compelled to hide it.

As far as stats go wikipedia has; over 11,000 discharges between 1994 and 2006

A 2006 Zogby International poll of military members found that 26% were in favor of gays and lesbians serving in the military, 37% opposed gays and lesbians serving, and 37% expressed no preference or were unsure. 72% of respondents who had experience with gays or lesbians in their unit said that the presence of gay or lesbian unit members had either no impact or a positive impact on their personal morale, while 67% said as much for overall unit morale. Of those respondents uncertain whether they had served with gay or lesbian personnel, 51% thought that such unit members would have a neutral or positive effect on personal morale, while 48% thought that they would have a negative effect on unit morale. 73% of respondents said that they felt comfortable in the presence of gay and lesbian personnel.

Don't ask, don't tell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[loquasagacious]

It shouldn't be something which has to be hidden. imo if I'm free to talk about my weekend and the women that I slept with then a homosexual should be free to talk about the men/women they slept with.

I'm not saying that anyone has to talk about it but they should be able to if they want. Realistically gender is a key part of who we are as people and no one should be compelled to hide it.

As far as stats go wikipedia has; over 11,000 discharges between 1994 and 2006



Don't ask, don't tell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tbh there is a silver lining. If I was being shipped off to a war I didn't support I would lie and say I was gay. Problem solved.

Worst case scenario I have to get a bromantic friend to lie and say they're my partner.

 

[spiny norman]

Has anyone ever read A Confederacy of Dunces? Sometimes I wonder if Iron has based his entire schtick on Ignatius J. Reilly.

Of course, Ignatius eventually wanted the gays to band together the world over to unite and take over the governments, with their gaiety naturally leading to world peace. We can only wait and see if Iron goes down the same road.

 

[kami]

Tbh there is a silver lining. If I was being shipped off to a war I didn't support I would lie and say I was gay. Problem solved.

Worst case scenario I have to get a bromantic friend to lie and say they're my partner.

Well, another issue is that of partner benefits. Even though the US government allows benefits for same sex partners in most public service jobs a serviceman or woman could not claim due to immediate expulsion. The most noteworthy of those, though perhaps the least common in this day and age, is the war widow pension deal thingy.

 

[Empyrean444]

Yeah, well, how did that work out for them...
A homosexual society is a weak and condemned one. It will soon fall to a stronger people who understand and value the full strength of the family unit

Philip II - the great reformer of Macedon who gave the Thebans a great defeat at the battle of Chaeronea - was blatantly bisexual. Incidently, even though the Thebans (and their Athenian allies) were crushed, the Sacred Band fought almost to the last man. Moreover, it is also possible that homosexuality was common and even encouraged in the Spartan army. Because societies in which homosexuals are accepted and allowed to fight are so weak eh?

 

[Tully B.]

Yeah, dudes, you all seem willfully blind to the morale issue. I think that's pretty significant. If i'm preparing to give my life in the service, and i'm trying to get to know the other guys who may save my life one day etc, I dont even want to consider the idea of a male soldier being romantically interested in me. Theyre important relationships of trust that need to be built and I think that it's damaging to those relationships if you bring in this suspicion of unrequited love... Like I said before, the job is just too important and professionalism is too vital to allow the 'luxury' of sexuality while on duty.

Is x being friendly to me because he loves his country and wants to build the strongest professional unit, or is he grooming me for sex?

But anyways, I still dont see exactly how it 'harms' a homosexual soldier to be required to not talk about their sexuality. It's not homophobic at all - it's just a sensible attempt to increase effectiveness by leaving 'sex' for after hours

If someone is uncomfortable with serving with homosexuals, and if they are so arrogant that they think just because someone's being nice to them, that it means they are in love with them, that's their fault and not the entire bloody gay community.

The way in which your arguing your point only strengthens ours, as it is these kind of prejudices that should be ironed out of society. This is one of the many steps that must be taken in order for this to happen.

 

[loquasagacious]

If someone is uncomfortable with serving with homosexuals, and if they are so arrogant that they think just because someone's being nice to them, that it means they are in love with them, that's their fault and not the entire bloody gay community.

The way in which your arguing your point only strengthens ours, as it is these kind of prejudices that should be ironed out of society. This is one of the many steps that must be taken in order for this to happen.

I see what you did there

Also agree with the argument. As for Iron's contention that he would feel uncomfortable, it's worth pointing out the survey stats from wikipedia which show him in a clear minority with aproximately 70% of surveyed personnel having no issue with homosexuals and reporting no (or positive) impact on personal and unit morale.

 

[Iron]

Philip II - the great reformer of Macedon who gave the Thebans a great defeat at the battle of Chaeronea - was blatantly bisexual. Incidently, even though the Thebans (and their Athenian allies) were crushed, the Sacred Band fought almost to the last man. Moreover, it is also possible that homosexuality was common and even encouraged in the Spartan army. Because societies in which homosexuals are accepted and allowed to fight are so weak eh?

Clearly, they would have been more successful if they had raging sons to avenge them

eh???

The point that the lay reader should take from this thread is that Iron is right as always

 

[B_B_J]

There are faaaar more serious issues at hand guyzz.

 

[Iron]

I know rite? Like winning the fing way, doing something with the trillion dollar debt etc
Rome is BURNING son! And you fiddle with so-called queer rights?
It's insane!

 

[loquasagacious]

I know rite? Like winning the fing way, doing something with the trillion dollar debt etc
Rome is BURNING son! And you fiddle with so-called queer rights?
It's insane!

And what do you propose? Lurching from crisis to crisis while ignoring long-term policy objectives and the betterment of society?

It's a simple thing to do. Executive order, done. I'm sure there would be plenty of volunteers to draft it. Stroke of a pen and it's done. Just because Rome is burning doesn't mean that we should stop being decent people.

 

[Lentern]

Yeah, I think it's basically absurd to compare military service to 'office' work. They sign up fully aware that they may lose their life in the course of duty. It is far more important that soliders know and trust eachother because if they dont, then people can get killed. My simple point is that I believe that the trust is less if you suspect sexual motives.
There is no inherent need for these people to communicate their homosexuality with fellow soldiers. They have nothing to gain and the nation's military capacity has everything to lose.

Perhaps they should adopt don't ask don't tell for homophobia. Seeing as most of those who frequent intellectual circles would call homophobia vastly more morally corrupt than homosexuality that the former be banned instead. That way the group would be able to function fine because nobody would be homophobic or acting upon it. You surely don't wish to protect the right o be homophobic over the right to be homosexual do you oh open minded one?

 

[Jeee]

I believe he has higher, more demanding priorities.

 

[Jeee]

Well, another issue is that of partner benefits. Even though the US government allows benefits for same sex partners in most public service jobs a serviceman or woman could not claim due to immediate expulsion. The most noteworthy of those, though perhaps the least common in this day and age, is the war widow pension deal thingy.

Honestly, the issue here is not vocalising sexuality, but war itself. The American army is corrupt, whether the comrades are gay or straight. People are discussing homosexual rights in the midst of the fact that innocents are being killed.
Which is the more important issue?
Definitely the hoax WMD and the murder and dishevel of innocents.

 

[Sprangler]

Between getting rid of this stupid policy and reevaluating the legitimacy of the war in Iraq, I think the former is more realistic goal.

 

[kami]

I believe he has higher, more demanding priorities.

Honestly, the issue here is not vocalising sexuality, but war itself. The American army is corrupt, whether the comrades are gay or straight. People are discussing homosexual rights in the midst of the fact that innocents are being killed.
Which is the more important issue?
Definitely the hoax WMD and the murder and dishevel of innocents.

Multi-task is haz difficult LOL country ruler one ting at time or OH NO.

It's a moronic proposal that there being another issue to attend to means we shouldn't attempt to deal with the problems of the people and really, this kind of rationale is the kind that empowers all that crazy stupid homeland security paranoia. Are you really going to use an argument (there are more important things than rights, like WAR, amirite?) that ties into justifying Guantanamo to support the continued defense (yes, the administration is actively defending this policy - OH NO BUT THAT MEANS WAR GO BOOM) of this policy? Really?

And really, unless you are in a minority group yourself then there will always be 'better things to do' in every single situation. That's part of being in a minority, remember? So those amongst us with authority have to buckle up and make the huge and painful effort of signing that one piece of paper and saving millions of dollars in order to establish equality, even if we have better things to do like Presidential date nights and fashion debuts for the First Lady.