I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.... (1 Viewer)

[loquasagacious]

AS POLITICIANS argue over school league tables and teaching standards, parents are increasingly taking their children out of the school system.

This year 2342 children are registered with the Department of Education for home schooling, nearly double the 1197 registered just four years ago. Over the past year the number has grown by 17.5 per cent.

Those who educate their own children believe the official figures are low.

"You can safely add 50 to 70 per cent to that, because many home educators don't register," said Esther Lacoba, president of the Home Education Association. "Anecdotally, many more are doing it than are registered. We estimate it is at least 2 per cent of school-aged children, but it could be as great as 5 per cent. It's parents making choices about what to learn, and when."
...

In the United States, religion or concerns over poor education are the reason for about one-third of cases of children taught at home. No equivalent studies have been conducted in Australia, but religion is often cited.
....

With religion, concerns about educational standards, socialisation issues with their children and special needs are all factors behind the decision, said Terry Harding, a former principal of the Australian Principal Academy, who has written a thesis in this area.

As much as I believe in upholding people's freedoms and rights I have serious reservations about home schooling.

• Parents are not qualified teachers: whilst some parents obviously are qualified teachers the majority are not. Parents are not experts on everything and especially moving into the HSC parents are imo extremely unlikely to be able to teach in sufficient detail across a range of subjects.
• Exposure to a broad range of views: a fundamental part of education is exposing children to contrasting view points and developing critical thinking skills. Part of this is having different teachers with different view points. One teacher for everything from preschool to year 12 would mean one slant on every topic throughout a child's education - doesn't really develop critical thinking more like indoctrinated children.
• Adherance to the syllabus: home-schooling is largely out of sight out of mind. We don't really know that they are conforming to the syllabus, flat earth? creationism? pluto as a planet? apartheid? womens liberation?
• Poor socialisation of children: humans are a social species and schooling plays an important role in socialising us. It exposes us to (usually) large numbers of other children, it teaches us to work in teams and interact on a social level. All of which home-schooled children miss out on.

I'm not suggesting that there aren't ways to manage these issues, but it is difficult and expensive to do so and currently we don't really manage them. It seems intuitively much easier to simply require children be placed in an actual school.

The interesting note for those who do support home schooling is that the parents of home-schooled children are contributing to public and private schooling (through tax), should the parents recieve a subsidy or tax rebate of some kind to recognise that they are not using Government funded schools?

Anyway this article today which reminded me of the Mark Twain quote, put quite simply does home schooling interfere with education and should it be allowed?

 

[Iron]

It's an interesting area. On the one hand, id say that parents have a fundamental right to educate their children as they see fit. This is noble and beautiful. But on the other hand, the children have a kind of right to develop their intellectual capabilities in the best way possible and also a sort of duty to learn to interact with other children so as to be level-headed members of the community.

If it's a general question of who should have more authority over children - the state or parents, i'd like to side with the parents, with limited exceptions. For home-schooling, I dont see the difficulty in setting out a broad syllabus for parents to follow, with recommended texts etc and standardised testing at the end of year to discover whether they are learning enough (or whether some possessive and paranoid parent is keeping them undeveloped and dependant for their own selfish reasons)

 

[*TRUE*]

It's an interesting area. On the one hand, id say that parents have a fundamental right to educate their children as they see fit. This is noble and beautiful. But on the other hand, the children have a kind of right to develop their intellectual capabilities in the best way possible and also a sort of duty to learn to interact with other children so as to be level-headed members of the community.

If it's a general question of who should have more authority over children - the state or parents, i'd like to side with the parents, with limited exceptions. For home-schooling, I dont see the difficulty in setting out a broad syllabus for parents to follow, with recommended texts etc and standardised testing at the end of year to discover whether they are learning enough (or whether some possessive and paranoid parent is keeping them undeveloped and dependant for their own selfish reasons)

Well put.

 

[xeuyrawp]

As much as I believe in upholding people's freedoms and rights I have serious reservations about home schooling.

• Parents are not teachers:

I stopped reading there. Parents teach their children so many more important things than maths and literature. But suddenly they're not teachers?

 

[loquasagacious]

[/LIST]
I stopped reading there. Parents teach their children so many more important things than maths and literature. But suddenly they're not teachers?

Acknowledged that parents teach children many things. The point is that they aren't qualified teachers, in schools we don't let unqualified people teach in schools, why should home-schooling be different?

 

[Iron]

Lol I dont know what kind of teachers you had, but I certainly never had one smarter than my father. Most of teaching is surely about an ability to get through to children and who is better qualified to do this than the parent? Given a syllabus, textbooks and willpower, i'd say that parents would generally always be able to instruct children better than a 20-something straight out of their no doubt demanding degree and into their no doubt challenging position, which they no doubt care deeply about because theyre not essentially failures or anything

Having said this, nuns should always be the teachers

 

[loquasagacious]

Lol I dont know what kind of teachers you had, but I certainly never had one smarter than my father. Most of teaching is surely about an ability to get through to children and who is better qualified to do this than the parent? Given a syllabus, textbooks and willpower, i'd say that parents would generally always be able to instruct children better than a 20-something straight out of their no doubt demanding degree and into their no doubt challenging position, which they no doubt care deeply about because theyre not essentially failures or anything

Having said this, nuns should always be the teachers

I'm not saying that there aren't some parents who could do it. But if we strip away anecdotes about our specific parents/teachers then we can see that parenting requires no specific qualification. Teaching in schools does. Thus a teacher has the qualifications to teach in schools and raise children, a higher level of qualification than someone who is 'just' a parent.

Can we expect all parents to have a strong understanding of calculus, metalwork, PE, ancient history, creative writing and biology?

Also Iron while your father may have been better than your teachers was your mother? After all in the world you espouse where family values, as you see them, are respected clearly she would be your teacher as your father would be the breadwinner of the family. Would a mother in that world have even gone to university?

 

[Iron]

No I would follow my father to work and observe his shady business dealings, then learn the basics on the side...

But you ignore my points anyway, in that teaching isnt about slapping some technical jargon on the board and walking out - it requires a unique social skill which, ironically, you probably cant teach. Very few teachers have this, most parents do.

 

[*TRUE*]

I'm not saying that there aren't some parents who could do it. But if we strip away anecdotes about our specific parents/teachers then we can see that parenting requires no specific qualification. Teaching in schools does. Thus a teacher has the qualifications to teach in schools and raise children, a higher level of qualification than someone who is 'just' a parent.

Can we expect all parents to have a strong understanding of calculus, metalwork, PE, ancient history, creative writing and biology?

Also Iron while your father may have been better than your teachers was your mother? After all in the world you espouse where family values, as you see them, are respected clearly she would be your teacher as your father would be the breadwinner of the family. Would a mother in that world have even gone to university?

It ought to be pointed out that homeschooled children are not always taught exclusively by parents. There are those who complete distance education /have tutors for some or all subjects - even some who alternate between school and homeschool.
My father and mother were the ones that rescued my math education after primary school had done a terrific job screwing it up - so often teachers are superior only on paper. A uni degree will not necessarily mean a thing, especially in primary education.

 

[loquasagacious]

But you ignore my points anyway, in that teaching isnt about slapping some technical jargon on the board and walking out - it requires a unique social skill which, ironically, you probably cant teach. Very few teachers have this, most parents do.

Most teachers are parents. Your logic is flawed.

 

[Iron]

Biological parents of the actual children, I mean (and yeah?)

 

[*TRUE*]

Most teachers are parents. Your logic is flawed.

Yes, but teachers in a school system do not teach only their own children. A parent has a close relationship with a child that enables him/her to construct an approach to teaching that is especially effective and efficient with relation to his/her child.

 

[Riet]

My mother was a teacher...
Wasn't home schooled though.

I'd say its fine, if they go about it the right way. I was eavesdropping on this conversation on the bus where this girl was telling her friend how she was homeschooled for a half year in year 5 because it was between intakes for a good school or something, which is fair enough I suppose (what is wrong with a local public school, I don't know). She seemed relatively normal and I'm pretty sure most parents would be able to effectively teach at a primary school level.

As for highschool and that... well they have OTEN and corrospondence teaching, where the students are pretty much left to their own devices. If the parents were proactive in this learning and used self-assessment guides to mark and critique their kids, I'm sure it could work effectively.

 

[loquasagacious]

Biological parents of the actual children, I mean (and yeah?)

I will conceede that parents should be able to connect with their children better than school teachers can. It's still a jump to say that they can grasp the subject matter sufficiently...

But more importantly it doesn't address the need for children to be exposed to diverse view points and socialised...

 

[Iron]

I will conceede that parents should be able to connect with their children better than school teachers can. It's still a jump to say that they can grasp the subject matter sufficiently...

But more importantly it doesn't address the need for children to be exposed to diverse view points and socialised...

This is why Church is important. But ill admit that the knowledge base seems like a hurdle, but, idk, something that can be overcome by limiting this option to university graduates or something. Again, to fall back on my own experience, I really cant say that any of the teachers had an amazing grasp of the material. When I went to uni, they all seemed very laughable in hindsight. Having said that, sure, they would acquire a familiarity and experience with the material and known areas which students find difficult. But I cant help but think that their advantage here is neutralized by the one-on-one time and superior personal connection that a parent offers. Teachers need to stretch their experience and skills over 20+ unique students in blocks of half an hour/an hour over various different classes, levels, social dynamics per day. Call me cynical, but I dont think that our teachers are that amazing

 

[xeuyrawp]

Acknowledged that parents teach children many things. The point is that they aren't qualified teachers, in schools we don't let unqualified people teach in schools, why should home-schooling be different?

You're clearly confusing why teachers are qualified. They're not qualified to 'teach'; I can go up to someone on the street and teach anything. I've gone to schools and taught, and I'm not qualified. 'qualified teachers' are qualified effectively to look after a room full of children.

The NSW government rightly recognises that if you want to be able to call yourself a teacher of someone else's children, you need to be qualified.

 

[danal353]

i think social skills are better learnt in a school environment, you meet all sorts of people and learn things like how to share and tolerate other people's opinions

you don't want to be 18, go to uni, and then realise there are other people in the world who are different to you

but then again, i think it's the parents' right to decided whether to home school or not

 

[*TRUE*]

I will conceede that parents should be able to connect with their children better than school teachers can. It's still a jump to say that they can grasp the subject matter sufficiently...

But more importantly it doesn't address the need for children to be exposed to diverse view points and socialised...

In reply to your second point :
How is it that a homeschooled child is not able to be exposed to diverse viewpoints or be socialised?
Socialisation at school is not all that broad in actual fact. Nor is it likely that a diligent and responsible homeschooled parent would not consider the need for socialisation and make lifestyle adjustments accordingly.

 

[loquasagacious]

i think social skills are better learnt in a school environment, you meet all sorts of people and learn things like how to share and tolerate other people's opinions

you don't want to be 18, go to uni, and then realise there are other people in the world who are different to you

but then again, i think it's the parents' right to decided whether to home school or not

Distance learning for university. No need to interact with people outside your family for another 3-4 years.

 

[danal353]

Distance learning for university. No need to interact with people outside your family for another 3-4 years.

yes but i suppose after that, unless you wanted to be a hermit for the rest of your life, you would need to deal with the people you work with

and you go to ANU, I'm going next year people keep on telling me it's a hole - what's it like?