Australian economy completely avoids recession (2 Viewers)

[murphyad]

Why is it so frowned upon to reward those who work hard and not reward those who don't.

If we reward everyone, the vast majority will work harder. Scientifically proven.

Noone can say accurately 100% of the time but I would put my money on it not being that much for a lot of people. More cost effective to keep rewarding productivity until the cost of sustaining the conditions begins closing in on the increasing productivity. It's a business, not a playschool.

Idle speculation and irrelevant until proven correct. Sorry.

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Does this mean that Rudd will finally stop putting us into debt? Atleast scale it down from the projected $300bn.

Unlikely but we can hope...

I would argue that it wasn't Rudd who put us into debt, it was the circumstances he had/has to deal with that put us into debt.

 

[justanotherposter]

I would argue that it wasn't Rudd who put us into debt, it was the circumstances he had/has to deal with that put us into debt.

The circumstances do not/did not call for a projected $300bn peak debt + interest.

 

[spyro14]

If we reward everyone, the vast majority will work harder. Scientifically proven.

Working harder has to cover the cost of better conditions, do you have any scientific studies that prove it will in all cases?

 

[murphyad]

Working harder has to cover the cost of better conditions, do you have any scientific studies that prove it will in all cases?

No scientific studies prove it in all cases, but many prove it in specific cases. A good example is the Hawthorne Study.

When we analyse these studies, we see a general trend. Furthermore, the phenomenon is the foundation of a popular managerial theory for business, behavioural management (good ol' Business Studies!).

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

That's correct. Tech companies take it to heart. Apparently Google, IBM, Microsoft, and Yahoo are neat places to work.

On the other hand I read one study showing that employees generally responded to punishment by working harder, but responded to rewards by slacking off somewhat. Interesting finding.

Give employees great working conditions but don't be afraid to chastise them I guess.

Another boon of good working conditions is that it differentiates you to prospective employees - you're more likely to attract the employees you want.

 

[spyro14]

Don't get me wrong, I completely support Behavioural management system and set minimum conditions. My point is merely that they shouldn't be increased anymore from where they are now through the government, it should up to the owner of the business to do what he or she likes within reason for the simple reason that they own it.

 

[spyro14]

On the other hand I read one study showing that employees generally responded to punishment by working harder, but responded to rewards by slacking off somewhat. Interesting finding.

Finally my idle speculation has some support.

 

[murphyad]

Don't get me wrong, I completely support Behavioural management system and set minimum conditions. My point is merely that they shouldn't be increased anymore from where they are now through the government, it should up to the owner of the business to do what he or she likes within reason for the simple reason that they own it.

With sole regards to the profit motive, perhaps. But don't forget about more altruistic goals, such as a minimum standard of living.

The case of affairs you described (where business is the sole arbiter of wages) did exist in the early stage of the Industrial Revolution. It was quite the nightmare for your average proletariat and it is dangerous to advocate the removal of some of these workers' rights (not that I think you are necessarily doing this) because we may face a return to these times; I'm sure some business leaders may even support it. Analysts talk about China or India as being a step ahead of Australia with their low-cost labour, that we have to "catch up" to them - this was similar wording to what Howard used to justify WorkChoices. However, the truth is that in terms of working conditions, they are light years behind, and we should not forget all bar the desire for economic growth when we approach these countries.

I notice that you use the stipulation 'within reason'. I agree, which only serves to underline the subjectivity of this clarification.

 

[kaz1]

How much shit would we be in if Turnbull was PM?

 

[spyro14]

Less?

 

[kaz1]

Less?

Yeah man since he seemed so keen on the stimulus.

 

[spyro14]

Regardless of who got in, an expansionary fiscal stance would have been taken. Whilst anyone who knows anything about economics(I just barely squeeze into that category) would know that a budget deficit is not an inherently bad thing, especially in the circumstances we were in during the time it was decided, the size of the deficit is just unnecessarily large and will surely have negative effects in the future, maybe not as bad as some people think, then again maybe worse.

 

[Garygaz]

I lol at all of you who think the havoc that the stock market bubble and real estate bubble created can be swept away by the Fed in a year through massive injections into the shadow banking system. The storm has only begun.

 

[murphyad]

Regardless of who got in, an expansionary fiscal stance would have been taken. Whilst anyone who knows anything about economics(I just barely squeeze into that category) would know that a budget deficit is not an inherently bad thing, especially in the circumstances we were in during the time it was decided, the size of the deficit is just unnecessarily large and will surely have negative effects in the future, maybe not as bad as some people think, then again maybe worse.

I agree with you in principle on this one.

EDIT: Except that I think for now, the jury is still out on the necessary size of the stimulus and ensuing budget deficits.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Regardless of who got in, an expansionary fiscal stance would have been taken. Whilst anyone who knows anything about economics(I just barely squeeze into that category) would know that a budget deficit is not an inherently bad thing, especially in the circumstances we were in during the time it was decided, the size of the deficit is just unnecessarily large and will surely have negative effects in the future, maybe not as bad as some people think, then again maybe worse.

Solid points. It's worth pointing out though that even after all possible debt Rudd will have undertaken at the end of this is factored in, I believe we still have the lowest debt level as a percentage of GDP of all OECD countries. Debt that will have been paid off before Rudd leaves office, assuming average fiscal responsibility (i.e. not American style) and that Rudd will be in power for two terms after this one (he'd have to fuck something up very badly not to).

And that's a worst case scenario - in reality parts of the stimulus won't be needed, while things like the NBN aren't as big as some people think (for instance only $21 billion comes from government, the other half from industry).

And moreover, the stimulus itself wasn't exactly wasted - some fell into a black hole, but by and large it went to areas of need: infrastructure, education, and healthcare.

The cash handout portion I'm more critical of but they've obviously contributed strongly to a massive increase in consumer confidence.

 

[Garygaz]

You can have all the stimulus you want but in the end it's gonna be China buying our iron ore, uranium and natural gas that will keep us going.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

You can have all the stimulus you want but in the end it's gonna be China buying our iron ore, uranium and natural gas that will keep us going.

False. Japan is our biggest trading partner. China sure helps but don't make the mistake of assuming they're the be all, end all.

Also, those GDP growth figures were in SPITE of a large drop in exports, causing an unexpected trade deficit blowout.

 

[DavidBenGurion]

Time to scale back the stimulus. Or at least take a moment to pause and make sure it is spent wisely. The wastage is a disgrace. There's no rush now.

shuttup rafy you partisan scumbag. bite the bullet and realise that kevin rudd's heroic spending has saved us the large inconvinience of a mega-recission. sound economic management has pulled us through a tough time - the liberal party's great lie of being the better economists is out the door and almost off the leash...to people that aren't partisan scumbags like yourself anyway.

 

[Riet]

shuttup rafy you partisan scumbag. bite the bullet and realise that kevin rudd's heroic spending has saved us the large inconvinience of a mega-recission. sound economic management has pulled us through a tough time - the liberal party's great lie of being the better economists is out the door and almost off the leash...to people that aren't partisan scumbags like yourself anyway.

Yeah massive debt is great fiscal management.