Highly intelligent animals in captivity - yes/no? (2 Viewers)

[tiggaman]

Dubbo is way better than Taronga for the animals, but both do really good conservation work

 

[Kwayera]

Dubbo is way better than Taronga for the animals, but both do really good conservation work

Again, that depends on whether or not captive conservation is actually of any real benefit.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Not too keen on the typical enclosure you see at the zoo, for any animal really, I mean even the dumbest animal would probably appreciate a change of scenery from time to time (unless by nature the animal likes to stay under the same rock it's whole life or whatever)

Then again my cat has never seen the great outdoors apart from through the windows of our house and she doesn't seem to mind.

Then again, that's not the same kind of captivity as I think we're talking about, and she's used to it, gets plenty of play and for a cat she's a bit dopey anyway. So this is probably irrelevant.

Leaning towards no unless it's for research, in a large enough area to provide mental stimulation etc etc (like that thing someone said about the people who study one animal in a big reserve type thing)...and I would probably say that under these circumstances the captivity shouldn't need to be a permanent arrangement? (yes/no) edit: and also like, is this really necessary anyway, is there a way to just do the research with the animals doing their thing freely?

I don't really know much about animal behaviour but yeah in general I would think the smarter the animal -> the more stimulation it needs -> the less boredom/lack of freedom it can tolerate -> the less likely it is to be happy in your usual zoo scenario.

 

[HumanDichotomy]

I agree with captivity but only for the sake of breeding to get the numbers up...or for the public to learn more about the animal if it can benefit the animal in some way.

 

[Iheartgays]

I agree with captivity but only for the sake of breeding to get the numbers up...or for the public to learn more about the animal if it can benefit the animal in some way.

The idea is that captivity in zoos etc benefits the animal due to tourists funding the researchers ability to 'benefit the animal in some way.'

 

[spyro14]

Cephalopods are deceivingly intelligent, it freaks me out that an octopus can work out how to open a jar with a screw off lid. Or suffocate a human 0.0 .....they're coming for us

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Or cows...has anyone seen this vid?

YouTube - Cows with guns

 

[Kwayera]

The idea is that captivity in zoos etc benefits the animal due to tourists funding the researchers ability to 'benefit the animal in some way.'

Unfortunately captive breeding tends to select for traits that encourage it, i.e. friendliness towards humans, easy temperament, etc, which aren't necessarily genetic traits necessary for life in the wild.

 

[Strawbaby]

I'd contrast metropolitan zoos to places like Werribee Open Range Zoo.

It depends wholly on the circumstances. If you can provide a safe, interesting and healthy environment that is big enough for the animal and potentially allows the species a better chance at survival overall, I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

[Kwayera]

I'd contrast metropolitan zoos to places like Werribee Open Range Zoo.

It depends wholly on the circumstances. If you can provide a safe, interesting and healthy environment that is big enough for the animal and potentially allows the species a better chance at survival overall, I don't think that's a bad thing.

Oh yes, places like Werribee are great, especially for intelligents like elephants and carnivores because they have enrichment and, more importantly, space. But those places are few and far inbetween purely because of the space required.

 

[HumanDichotomy]

What about those breeding programs to get the numbers up?

 

[Kwayera]

What about those breeding programs to get the numbers up?

Yeah but that's the point. Captive breeding programs inherently select for traits that make captivity, and therefore captive breeding, easier. These traits are often incompatible with those that are required for life in the wild. Getting the numbers up is useless unless you can release them into the wild (the whole point of captive breeding programs).

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Captive breeding programs inherently select for traits that make captivity, and therefore captive breeding, easier.

How?

 

[Iheartgays]

How?

Imagine a group of 4 people in a room. You wanted to breed the best child possible out of all of them. One of the people has cerebral palsy, one has severe diorrhoea, one is a guy in perfect physical health and one is a chick with blonde hair and blue eyes. Using this example, you segregate or annihilate the broken people and breed the healthy ones to make sure that the species has a better chance for survival.

 

[Enteebee]

It's always odd to me when people try to make distinctions between the 'intelligent' and 'unintelligent' animals as they look at all different sorts of studies, few of which even really try to deal with things like 'recursion' which probably gets closer to the key idea of 'how similar are they to us'.

The problem is in part that we don't really understand... that well... what it is about or thoughts which leads to this thing we call consciousness, or what that even necessarily means - Not to say there aren't some good attempts at it. So to then extend that problem to ethical questions in regards to animals, becomes a fairly difficult task...

I think, if intelligence is really the reason we want to protect creatures (Idk if it is), then you can choose the safe option... being that we no longer harm any or the ignorant opinion, that maybe since we don't KNOW they're "like us" we should just treat them like they're not.

 

[spyro14]

Well...there are some animals or creatures that I consider to be intelligent that I would still eat. If you ask me why I wouldn't eat a dolphin my instinctive response would be,"just because". Same with dogs, but as I said before I consider octopodes to be highly intelligent but i'll still eat them. Perhaps it's the appearance.