Reflections of a 4th yr pharm student--pls read if you're considering pharm (3 Viewers)

[Darian]

wont working in a pharmaceutical company in R&D, marketing of drugs, etc. be better/more enjoyable/less boring/more money?

 

[lala2]

^^Maybe, but industry isn't something I've really considered just because I'm not sure how to get in. I think the most important thing is to survive the next year, and you can only do your prereg year in one of two places--community or hospital. I might see about industry after though, don't want to cut out my chances.

If anyone was wondering how saturated the market is getting, this year in NSW, there's 500 prereg pharmacists, double the previous year, and the number of places have actually decreased, as the hospitals' funding have been cut and I'm sure a number of community pharmacies are going too due to the GFC.

 

[Tim035]

wont working in a pharmaceutical company in R&D, marketing of drugs, etc. be better/more enjoyable/less boring/more money?

Yes, but it is a very difficult industry to get in to. Most big pharma companies never put out adds, they just head hunt the best in the field for the disease they are trying to target. Also most of what is done in industry is very systematic:

1 - Identify target (e.g. receptor, enzyme, ion channel etc..) they want to target / intervene
2 - Screen the 500'000 compounds they have in their combinatorial chemistry register till they find some with high affinity (this is mainly robotics)
3- Screen the 5 or so hit compounds to find the one with the highest potency
4- Push this compound through pre clinical and clinical trials as fast as possible

This is grossly simplified, to the point where it is largely inaccurate, but it highlights the point. Industry is about making money, not about understanding the fine details by which the drug achieves its mode of action or binds to its target.

If you want to put in to action all the extensive details you learn about modes of drug action on a molecular scale etc... Then Academia laboratory's would be the place to go.

 

[lala2]

Wow thanks for that Tim035. Seems like industry may not be for me then, though I'm not the type to burn bridges, esp so early in my career. I'm pretty set on hospital jobs though, for the next year anyway.

 

[sydneyphoenix]

If anyone was wondering how saturated the market is getting, this year in NSW, there's 500 prereg pharmacists, double the previous year, and the number of places have actually decreased, as the hospitals' funding have been cut and I'm sure a number of community pharmacies are going too due to the GFC.

Huh? how did it double over the last year? I know CSU-Orange has first turned loose the first graduating class, so that's extra 40 or so, but there doesn't seem to be any (significant) number in Pharmacy graduates from any uni. Or has there been a huge influx from Interstate or Internationally-trained people?

It does seem that Hospital Pharmacy is becoming a common choice for internship, whether by choice or due to saturation in Community Pharmacy sector-I think both. Good thing is that unlike professions such as law or medicine, it appears going "rural" for a few years doesn't seem to adversely affect one's long-term career prospects...just my 2 cents.

 

[extensorindicis]

is it the master of pharm people from usyd? canbera uni? maybe newcastles MPharm etc?

 

[Darian]

If you want to put in to action all the extensive details you learn about modes of drug action on a molecular scale etc... Then Academia laboratory's would be the place to go.

academia laboratory = crap money right?

 

[danz90]

Woot I might be able to get involved in Pharma Industry fieldwork if I get accepted into the faculty's talented student's program!

Lala, do you know anything about the talented students program??

 

[lala2]

Huh? how did it double over the last year? I know CSU-Orange has first turned loose the first graduating class, so that's extra 40 or so, but there doesn't seem to be any (significant) number in Pharmacy graduates from any uni. Or has there been a huge influx from Interstate or Internationally-trained people?

It does seem that Hospital Pharmacy is becoming a common choice for internship, whether by choice or due to saturation in Community Pharmacy sector-I think both. Good thing is that unlike professions such as law or medicine, it appears going "rural" for a few years doesn't seem to adversely affect one's long-term career prospects...just my 2 cents.

See below. But yeah, going rural doesn't seem to affect your prospects. I'm curious as to why med? So many things can be done online now or through teleconferencing, so I don't know how continuing education would be that much of an issue.

is it the master of pharm people from usyd? canbera uni? maybe newcastles MPharm etc?

Yep that's right. Newcastle, USYD and Canberra masters had their first lot of grads this year I think. Let's say about 30 each, so 90. Then you've got people from interstate, and probably overseas as well. I'm guessing the cohort for the bachelors at CSU and USYD increased significantly too.

Woot I might be able to get involved in Pharma Industry fieldwork if I get accepted into the faculty's talented student's program!

Lala, do you know anything about the talented students program??

Congrats on being nominated It's a great honour. As far as I know, only the top 4 students are accepted (or that was for my year anyway). Your grades are very worthy, I don't think you'd have any trouble getting in...unless you know 4 other people with a higher average? You get to do some individual projects I think, with a supervisor (not sure if the supervisor's of your choice though, but I'd assume so). Yes, there's plenty of industrial work, in fact, it might actually be most of the work, in which case, lucky for you I don't know what the time commitments are like, but there is holiday work involved I'm pretty sure. Good luck, when will you know? Let us know how you go

 

[danz90]

Congrats on being nominated It's a great honour. As far as I know, only the top 4 students are accepted (or that was for my year anyway). Your grades are very worthy, I don't think you'd have any trouble getting in...unless you know 4 other people with a higher average? You get to do some individual projects I think, with a supervisor (not sure if the supervisor's of your choice though, but I'd assume so). Yes, there's plenty of industrial work, in fact, it might actually be most of the work, in which case, lucky for you I don't know what the time commitments are like, but there is holiday work involved I'm pretty sure. Good luck, when will you know? Let us know how you go

Thanks!
I have to do an interview next week with a panel of 3 academics (oh goshhhh!)
from the faculty. They say that 4-8 are gonna be picked, although I don't know if the WAM plays any role in selection, I have a feeling it might just be interview performance?

 

[lala2]

I actually wasn't aware there was an interview required. Maybe it's a new thing or maybe because the TSP student I talked to didn't mention it. It could very well be interview performance actually, since I'm assuming that, at that calibre of academic achievement, any differences would be very minor. Just prepare well, be well spoken, and show your motivation. You've got excellent reasons, so make them extremely clear.

And on the topic of good news and interviews, I got my SECOND interview, which is more than I ever dreamed of, especially for such a competitive place. It's Blue Mountains Hospital. Wish me luck, it's next Thursday

 

[lala2]

An update's in order, especially as closing date is tomorrow. The job situation is worse than ever. I've had 3 hospital interviews, no luck. I've literally just had a community interview. The situation is BAD trust me. The community pharmacy's received FIFTY applications for TWO positions. It's as bad as hospital...mmmm maybe not, but with hospital 70:1 and this pharmacy 50:2 (or 25:1) it's still pretty bad.

And let's see, I learnt something else from this interview. The pharmacist, who graduated 4 years ago, said in his time, there were 80 graduates. And only from USYD. Now, there's 500 graduates (as I mentioned earlier) and it's getting more and more competitive.

So, if you're choosing pharmacy for the job prospects, think again. My greatest fear is I've worked my ass off, sacrificed my LIFE for four years just to get a degree that doesn't even guarantee a job. There will be no jobs left in Sydney by the time you finish, and there may not even be any left in NSW....or worse, Australia (apparently it's equally as bad in other states except maybe QLD, and knowing what will happen--they'll open up more schools until there's way too many grads, by which time it'll be too late...)

Seriously, I hate to say this, but with the job prospects being as they are, you'd be better off doing a more relaxing degree because the job prospects are going to be the same either way (i.e. crap).

 

[mixt]

nice post lala.. a similar thing is happening to med graduates.. theres a LOT of schools offering mbbs degrees now but now there's a bottleneck for the training places, internships and paid work.

just wondering about what happens to the other 48 pharm grads that don't make it into the interview? do they end up doing research or something?

 

[lala2]

Thanks. No, this particular community pharmacy I get the feeling is interviewing everyone (or nearly everyone) who's applied. But yeah, the others are simply going to have to find jobs elsewhere, whether that be community or hospital. Correction to my earlier post--in some hospitals (especially rural), it's more like 30:1. So community's not the piss easy backup I thought it would be.

What about you? Are you doing med? I guess it must be even worse, trying to get across to the parentals that no, you're not 100% employable upon graduation.

 

[extensorindicis]

UNE is opening a 4 year pharm course now too thats like 6 courses(Usyd's Mpharm,Bpharm, Ucanbera, Newc, CSU, UNE) in nsw (act is not a state), thats screwed its as if the uni's are just making courses to make $$$ without any regard to preventing oversupply. Even if the uai falls to 80 the places are still going to be filled. Its also happening for physio now UWS is opening it up so its uncle, usyd, uws and csu. Don't know for how much longer they can gaurantee grad hosp places for us its only going to get worse when uni places are deregulated which means any uni could open one up if they wanted too...

solution: the pharm/physio associations need to harden up like the optom associations and prevent new courses!!!

 

[sydneyphoenix]

Gosh, another Pharmacy school? At this rate, 10 years from now we might have more pharmacy graduates than law graduates! While it may be a good thing for people living in UNE (they now have med school and pharm school, any news of dent school for trifecta?), it's going to only get worse for present and future pharm students/graduates. I personally think M.Pharm at USYD is superflous, with B.Pharm intake of 259 (is it still right?). I recognise the need for courses in different regional universities, though numbers could be smaller-doubt Wagga Wagga and surrounding regions can absorb 70-80 new pharmacists every year.

Maybe it's about time the State Government relaxed the regulation regarding the proximity between community pharmacies, though I suspect the PSA and the Guild will strongly protest against it. There's so much that could be squeezed out of Hospital pharmacy departments.

 

[extensorindicis]

perhaps in 5-8 years there will be too many pharm graduates such that to reduce unemployment the government will allow coles/wollies to open instore pharms up. which i guess in that sense would be alright

 

[lala2]

Alright everyone, fortunately, and I mean, fortunately, this has ended well. I got offered Dubbo Hospital just now. But the moral of the story still hasn't changed. It's been a hard, long, road, and even just 2 years ago, you didn't need to hunt for 2 months to get a job. Now I really wish this interview had happened a week earlier, so that I didn't waste my $52 at UAC. Oh well, that's the least of my troubles

 

[ninjapuppet]

LALA,

from what you know, what do you estimate the % of your class to still be employed/ unemployed at this stage? (its still only october )

 

[lala2]

It's hard to know because we don't have as many lectures (i.e. hard to catch up) and because I've deliberately chosen to ignore my competition. It's hard to do well if you keep thinking about your competition. But I know 24 people with jobs, 2 of them interstate. There are at least 220 people finishing this year, and 2 of them want to go straight into med. I guess it's still only October, but we lose 2 weeks at the end (1 week stuvac + 1 week exams) and most community jobs start right away after exams finish, effectively leaving us with 3 weeks to go.