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the arts faculty :/ + further questions on b international studies (2 Viewers)

gouge.away

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popular belief says that it's shit.

as someone whose course is run by the arts faculty, i'd like some reassurance that i am not making a huge mistake and should bugger off to usyd asap. i'm going to be doing international studies, btw.
______________________

Actually, in all seriousness, I would like to know why exactly it has this reputation (other than "it's fucking shit" and the funding cuts). I've done sufficient research (info days, website stalking, looking up various rankings, perusing BOS), but in these parts I've never really read anything written about the faculty by someone other than a commerce/engineering/science/economics/etc student.

Thanks
 

Thecorey0

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The person who interviewed me for my accomodation, who was a lecturer in the arts department, said that if it wasn't for the arts/law students, the uni would get rid of the whole faculty. Not sure how truthful that is.
 

KFunk

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popular belief says that it's shit.

as someone whose course is run by the arts faculty, i'd like some reassurance that i am not making a huge mistake and should bugger off to usyd asap. i'm going to be doing international studies, btw.
______________________

Actually, in all seriousness, I would like to know why exactly it has this reputation (other than "it's fucking shit" and the funding cuts). I've done sufficient research (info days, website stalking, looking up various rankings, perusing BOS), but in these parts I've never really read anything written about the faculty by someone other than a commerce/engineering/science/economics/etc student.

Thanks
It depends on your area of interest. In some areas UNSW is competent. For example, I have been quite satisfied with what they offer in the way of philosophy, in particular UNSW is strong in certain areas of continental philosophy (of the 20th Century European variety) which are of great interest to me. Compare this to, say, non-classical systems of formal logic or American pragmatism of which UNSW offers little. On the other hand, I just made a post in response to a student interested in political economy (PECO) saying that while I thoroughly enjoyed the PECO units on offer I would recommend any student seeking a thorough education in heterodox (read: alternative) approaches to economics/policy to consider USyd which is much stronger in this area (i.e. they actually have a PECO department).

In general Sydney University is much stronger in arts. They have more faculty members and, as far as I can tell, generally have more diverse course offerings and more areas of study (and more potential supervisors for a broader range of honours projects!). My personal feeling is that an arts hopeful who is unsure about the direction of their degree would be better off at USyd which offers much more choice. People may joke around and refer to UNSW as 'Kenso Tech', but the grain of truth is that the position of the arts faculty in the university reflects UNSW's history as a technical college.

As far as I know - from BoS, anecdotally, and from experience - intelligent, high performing students wanting to pursue studies or a career in the humanities typically opt to study at USyd unless UNSW offers a combined degree in an area of strength, e.g. law, commerce, medicine, engineering, and certain areas of science (though of course there are other reasons which I assume are statistically less important such as geography, family, etc). This is likely what the interviewer you mentioned meant about arts/law students. A high proportion of the high performing students which bolster the arts faculty are provided by combined degree programs, notably BA/LLB (BA/MBBS, on the other hand, is negligible in terms of size). While I cannot fully substantiate this claim, I would predict that you will find more high performing arts students at USyds, which in my experience amounts to more stimulating tutorials and learning in general. Irrespective, both universities will always have their share of passionate geeks and dummies looking for a three year holding-pen.

In short, arts at UNSW cannot fully compete with the likes of USyd, UMelb, Monash, etc... but it is certainly stronger than non-Go8 (UWS, Notre-Dame, Newcastle) universities and is perhaps moderately competitive within the Go8 (say versus UWA or Adelaide). At the level of Australia UNSW is a good place to study arts.

I know a number of people in the international studies program at UNSW, almost all of them in development studies, who have given it a positive review. It would seem that UNSW int. studies is somewhat in vogue (and so is perhaps less plagued by the above problems?) but nonetheless is dependent on arts faculty teaching and candidature across languages, politics, sociology, and so on. To a certain extent the teaching in politics at UNSW receives a boost from its strengths in commerce, law and medicine (think things like policy, international law, HIV and human rights). Do you have any particular interests within international studies?

My two cents.
 
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gouge.away

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The person who interviewed me for my accomodation, who was a lecturer in the arts department, said that if it wasn't for the arts/law students, the uni would get rid of the whole faculty. Not sure how truthful that is.
oh dear.

It depends on your area of interest. In some areas UNSW is competent. For example, I have been quite satisfied with what they offer in the way of philosophy, in particular UNSW is strong in certain areas of continental philosophy (of the 20th Century European variety) which are of great interest to me. Compare this to, say, non-classical systems of formal logic or American pragmatism of which UNSW offers little. On the other hand, I just made a post in response to a student interested in political economy (PECO) saying that while I thoroughly enjoyed the PECO units on offer I would recommend any student seeking a thorough education in heterodox (read: alternative) approaches to economics/policy to consider USyd which is much stronger in this area (i.e. they actually have a PECO department).

In general Sydney University is much stronger in arts. They have more faculty members and, as far as I can tell, generally have more diverse course offerings and more areas of study (and more potential supervisors for a broader range of honours projects!). My personal feeling is that an arts hopeful who is unsure about the direction of their degree would be better off at USyd which offers much more choice. People may joke around and refer to UNSW as 'Kenso Tech', but the grain of truth is that the position of the arts faculty in the university reflects UNSW's history as a technical college.

As far as I know - from BoS, anecdotally, and from experience - intelligent, high performing students wanting to pursue studies or a career in the humanities typically opt to study at USyd unless UNSW offers a combined degree in an area of strength, e.g. law, commerce, medicine, engineering, and certain areas of science (though of course there are other reasons which I assume are statistically less important such as geography, family, etc). This is likely what the interviewer you mentioned meant about arts/law students. A high proportion of the high performing students which bolster the arts faculty are provided by combined degree programs, notably BA/LLB (BA/MBBS, on the other hand, is negligible in terms of size). While I cannot fully substantiate this claim, I would predict that you will find more high performing arts students at USyds, which in my experience amounts to more stimulating tutorials and learning in general. Irrespective, both universities will always have their share of passionate geeks and dummies looking for a three year holding-pen.

In short, arts at UNSW cannot fully compete with the likes of USyd, UMelb, Monash, etc... but it is certainly stronger than non-Go8 (UWS, Notre-Dame, Newcastle) universities and is perhaps moderately competitive within the Go8 (say versus UWA or Adelaide). At the level of Australia UNSW is a good place to study arts.

I know a number of people in the international studies program at UNSW, almost all of them in development studies, who have given it a positive review. It would seem that UNSW int. studies is somewhat in vogue (and so is perhaps less plagued by the above problems?) but nonetheless is dependent on arts faculty teaching and candidature across languages, politics, sociology, and so on. To a certain extent the teaching in politics at UNSW receives a boost from its strengths in commerce, law and medicine (think things like policy, international law, HIV and human rights). Do you have any particular interests within international studies?

My two cents.
i think i love you.

my main interests are in humanitarian/human rights law, but considering how i might not be able to readily transfer into combined law, the development studies major covers pretty much everything i like that isn't law-related. afaik, usyd doesn't have this sort of program, at least at undergraduate level - i was looking at international and global studies and political, economic and social sciences, but the course outlines seemed kind of vague, really.

if you don't mind me asking, did those in development studies single out any particular strengths of the course?
 

KFunk

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Development studies is definitely a good reason to go to UNSW. I know a number of bright, keen students who chose UNSW on account of that program. As to strengths, the general vibe is that the core dev. stud. curriculum is very enjoyable and well taught - note that it tends to be a fairly passionate, high performing group consisting of students and lecturers that want to be there. Most people also seem to dig the int. stud. core units, e.g. international law, international security and so on. Unfortunately I can't be more specific. Usually I just hear people rave about how much they enjoy certain courses without providing a systematic breakdown :).

If you are keen on humanitarian/human rights law then you should keep in mind (in particular for honours level research), or even interact with, the following research groups which represent real areas of strength at UNSW:

- Australian Human Rights Centre
- Initiative for Health and Human Rights

The former is more closely allied to the law faculty but is nonetheless broad in focus (security and terrorism, economic and social rights, etc) while the latter has close ties with the faculty of medicine, and the school of public health in particular, with a focus on health (infectious disease, mental health, stigmatised disease) and the conditions which cultivate poor health outcomes such as disasters, poverty, violence, and exploitation (an important question --> can these then be corrected through human rights or other institutional means?).

Also, on combined law, assuming that you received an ATAR of 96+ or thereabouts a first year university average of mid-upper Distinction to High Distinction (78+ maybe?) should suffice to get you a place in UNSW combined law second year intake (that is, unless the situation has changed drastically from when I was last familiar with it).
 
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likes this thread a good lot.

i'm well on your boat - am pretty much enrolled into intl studies @ unsw (and it was the development studies program which drew me in most) but have been having second thoughts about switching to usyd too (which i very well may, if i receive a later round offer)

kfunk is brilliant. thank you.
 

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