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Trayvon Martin (2 Viewers)

soloooooo

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This does raise an interesting point about how in Australia you are not allowed to carry a concealed firearm (exception being police/security). Many people (including women) would feel safer to do so. If it was a chose between a citizen having to shoot someone if someone trys to stab or seriously injure/kill them, then it would be an easy decision that the citizen has the need and equipment to protect themself.
 

Lolsmith

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Until I can carry biological weapons around with me, on my person, the State will always be oppressive
 

SylviaB

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I don't think I've particularly disagreed with any of this,
can you stop being a lying idiot for one minute?

"If you think that shooting a man dead for what was it, looking suspicious, isn't overzealous"




and then doing the same thing.
Fuck off, it's not the same thing.

The media/anti-racists were certain that it was shot-for-being-black depsite a lack of and contrary evidence.

It's overwhelmingly clear that there was a fight, basically all evidence supports this, and I pointed it out.

What I didn't do is pretend that I know exactly what happened. I said that the issue is mainly about why there was a fight, which won't be known until more evidence surfaces.

this white rallying cry shit is absurd
I'd hardly call it that, but it's in response to what is the anti-white campaign launched by the left after the incident, about how they made it white-man-kills-black-boy, even though he is clearly not white, and certainly wouldn't be identified as such if he were a victim.
 

funkshen

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i never said there hasn't been/is currently a racially charged campaign, because it's quite clear there is
and i agreed that the certain media actors are running with this and are manipulating the issue (what's new)
most of the facts you raised are pertinent, and anyone who wants to actually be informed about this event would be a whole lot better off if they understood them

but it's very easy to cherry pick the loudest voices (amplified by the technologies of modern communication) and decry their message, which is what you and your ideological opposites are doing. everyone is pointing out the actions of a few extreme individuals on the margin and then extrapolating, whether the individual is george zimmerman and the simmering racial tensions latent in america's racial underbelly™, or spike lee and the black panthers who are violating zimmerman's personal security, or your tirade about treyvon martin as a Great Black Victim and "the left" and "the media" who are actively conspiring to perpetrate some anti-white injustice. it's very easy to point out the actions of fuckwit celebrities, or the shitty reporting by "progressive" news media like dailykos, huffington or certain individuals.

i'd wager that the vast majority of the reporting on this event has been quite bland, absent of a conceivable agenda. if i recall correctly, the impetus for this issue exploding into the mainstream media was actually bringing to attention the perceived miscarriage of justice. It is protocol to detain individuals involved in ‘stand your ground’ or castle law murders, for thorough interrogation and followup investigation. the law was not followed with due diligence in this case, and this is vital in determining the jurisprudential outcomes. that’s what the issue for the majority of people is. the radical views then follow and crowd everything else out

it doesn't matter whether you are right or wrong, or anyone else is. as you said in your original post, "Quite simply, we don't have the facts and can't know what happened or who provoked whom." it should end there. but what you're doing the exact same thing as "the left" - making rushed and partisan apologies for a persecuted subject, whether it is treyvon martin, or the white race, or whoever. trying to reconstruct this issue in your image. this shit is nothing new - this kind of "live analysis" of current investigations happens all the time (e.g. gordon wood) and is always dumb as hell

tl;dr the media/personality/cultural critic/ideology circus around this shit is fucking absurd, does't matter what angle you're coming at it from. the reasonable thing would be to ignore it, if most people were reasonable. given that isn't the case, treat each side of the circus with equal suspicion, especially the ones weaving grand, self-pitying victim narratives. wait for the facts. if you buy into the circus shit you'll just 'prove' yourself right anyways (if the white man goes free, america is as racist as you pressupposed it to be; if the white man goes to jail, america is as anti-white as you presupposed it to be)

if this goes to trial it will be fascinating. an incredibly difficult task for the defence, do they try and apply the letter of the law to this case and face a jury that might nullify?
 
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SylviaB

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i'd wager that the vast majority of the reporting on this event has been quite bland, absent of a conceivable agenda.
The fact that it is reported so heavily speaks volumes in itself.

In the same time period that the shooting ocurred:

In Kansas City, a 13-year-old white boy named Allen Coon was doused with gasoline and set on fire by two older blacks saying, “This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.” [Was Boy in K.C. Fire Attack a Victim of His School's Racist Teaching?, By Selwyn Duke, American Thinker, March 7, 2012 ]

A white Tulsa couple who had recently celebrated their 65th wedding anniversary was attacked last week in their house by a 20-year-old black man named Tyrone Dale David Woodfork. Nancy Strait, 85, was sexually assaulted and battered to death while her husband, 90-year-old WWII vet Bob Strait, was shot in the face with a BB gun and was left in serious condition. [Couple met and married within a month and stayed together for 65 years... only to be parted after home invader beat wife to death, Daily Mail, March 20, 2012]

Haley Pettersen, a 15-year-old white girl in a leg cast in O’Fallon, Illinois was out walking her dog when she was attacked by two black girls who said, ‘this is our territory white girl.” One girl grabbed Haley by the hair, and the other one started hitting her in the face. The blacks ran off only when some neighbors came out but the attack left Haley with a swollen left eye. [O’Fallon teen attacked near her home, By Jamie Forsythe, BND.com, March 19, 2012]

In Kansas City, an unnamed 50-year-old white man was left with a fractured hip and other injuries after being beaten by a group of blacks shouting racial epithets. [Man Says Youths Beat Him as Part of Racially Motivated Attack, kctv5.com, March 16, 2012]

Gary Allder, a white man in San Antonio, came home to find that his house had been burglarized, ransacked and tagged with racial slurs such as “Die Whitey.” Home tagged with racial slurs, profanity; victim offers reward, by Mayra Moreno, KENS 5, March 7, 2012

Travis Eugene Winemiller, 16, a white Polk County, Florida inmate, was beaten, choked and strangled until he was unconscious by three black inmates. They then hogtied Winemiller and said, “this is how you slave a real cracker” and threatened to kill him. 3 teens charged in jailhouse inmate attack , WTSP.com, February 29, 2012

Jacob Appel, a 15-year-old autistic white boy, was attacked by three blacks at his bus stop in Palm Bay, Florida. The blacks taunted, used racial slurs, and chased the victim into the street where he was nearly struck by a car. The only reason the blacks were caught is that one of the attackers posted the video on his Facebook page. Police: 3 charged with hate crime after video shows bullying of autistic teen, wftv.com, February 12, 2012



All examples of explicit racist attacks, and these were barely reported on. THIS is absurd, not my "rallying cry" or whatever teh fuck you want to call it.
 
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mirakon

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The fact that it is reported so heavily speaks volumes in itself.

In the same time period that the shooting ocurred:

In Kansas City, a 13-year-old white boy named Allen Coon was doused with gasoline and set on fire by two older blacks saying, “This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.” [Was Boy in K.C. Fire Attack a Victim of His School's Racist Teaching?, By Selwyn Duke, American Thinker, March 7, 2012 ]

A white Tulsa couple who had recently celebrated their 65th wedding anniversary was attacked last week in their house by a 20-year-old black man named Tyrone Dale David Woodfork. Nancy Strait, 85, was sexually assaulted and battered to death while her husband, 90-year-old WWII vet Bob Strait, was shot in the face with a BB gun and was left in serious condition. [Couple met and married within a month and stayed together for 65 years... only to be parted after home invader beat wife to death, Daily Mail, March 20, 2012]

Haley Pettersen, a 15-year-old white girl in a leg cast in O’Fallon, Illinois was out walking her dog when she was attacked by two black girls who said, ‘this is our territory white girl.” One girl grabbed Haley by the hair, and the other one started hitting her in the face. The blacks ran off only when some neighbors came out but the attack left Haley with a swollen left eye. [O’Fallon teen attacked near her home, By Jamie Forsythe, BND.com, March 19, 2012]

In Kansas City, an unnamed 50-year-old white man was left with a fractured hip and other injuries after being beaten by a group of blacks shouting racial epithets. [Man Says Youths Beat Him as Part of Racially Motivated Attack, kctv5.com, March 16, 2012]

Gary Allder, a white man in San Antonio, came home to find that his house had been burglarized, ransacked and tagged with racial slurs such as “Die Whitey.” Home tagged with racial slurs, profanity; victim offers reward, by Mayra Moreno, KENS 5, March 7, 2012

Travis Eugene Winemiller, 16, a white Polk County, Florida inmate, was beaten, choked and strangled until he was unconscious by three black inmates. They then hogtied Winemiller and said, “this is how you slave a real cracker” and threatened to kill him. 3 teens charged in jailhouse inmate attack , WTSP.com, February 29, 2012

Jacob Appel, a 15-year-old autistic white boy, was attacked by three blacks at his bus stop in Palm Bay, Florida. The blacks taunted, used racial slurs, and chased the victim into the street where he was nearly struck by a car. The only reason the blacks were caught is that one of the attackers posted the video on his Facebook page. Police: 3 charged with hate crime after video shows bullying of autistic teen, wftv.com, February 12, 2012



All examples of explicit racist attacks, and these were barely reported on. THIS is absurd, not my "rallying cry" or whatever teh fuck you want to call it.
Your example with the 65th anniversary couple doesn't seem like an explicitly racial attack. Its a home invasion that just happenned to be done by a black man
 

SylviaB

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Your example with the 65th anniversary couple doesn't seem like an explicitly racial attack.
You're right, but of course if races were reversed there literally would have been international outrage over it.
 

funkshen

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the media doesn't give equal coverage to every example of "explicit racial attacks"? certain examples come to dominate the media's attention, particularly ones that expose uncomfortable truths or controversial behaviours, and are amenable to passionate national discussion? how very incisive

a conspiracy is afoot!
 

Lolsmith

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A WORLD WAR 2 VET was beaten in his own home and his wife was sexually assaulted

nothin'

which is what he's trying to get at and I believe he's correct in this regard
 

SylviaB

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the media doesn't give equal coverage to every example of "explicit racial attacks"? certain examples come to dominate the media's attention, particularly ones that expose uncomfortable truths or controversial behaviours, and are amenable to passionate national discussion? how very incisive

a conspiracy is afoot!
No, I clearly don't care about "every example", an innocent white kid younger than martin purposely was set on fire whilst being racially abused, and nothing was made of it

if the races were reversed, it would be the biggest story of the year

THAT is why writing about whiteness is not "absurd"
 

SylviaB

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The only thing I care about this debate anymore is, have you ever identified as being a Libertarian (I think you've said you haven't before), Brett? I don't really care, I just thought you went the whole 9 yards against the state.
I'm an anti-statist (want the state to be abolished entirely), though not entirely of the austro-liberatian variety (Rothbardianism). My views also incorporate elements of radical traditionalism/the alternative right, paleoconservatism, and national anarchism.
 

Lentern

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I'm an anti-statist (want the state to be abolished entirely), though not entirely of the austro-liberatian variety (Rothbardianism). My views also incorporate elements of radical traditionalism/the alternative right, paleoconservatism, and national anarchism.
So broadly speaking, you're a cunt.
 

Sanjeet

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Shockingly, the media has covered up some key information in making Trayvon Martin the latest black martyr. From an Examiner.com article citing eyewitness reports and some pertinent background on the "unarmed black teenager shot to death by a white multiracial Hispanic neighborhood watch captain":

All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911.

1. The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
2. The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
3. Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
4. Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals.

As with all black teenage victims, the media mendaciously refers to Trayvon as an "honor roll student":

In fact, he was under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night. A laywer for Trayvon's family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.

And note that all the news articles contain a picture of a smiling, prepubescent 13 year-old Trayvon, not a fully grown 17 year-old, 6'2'' football player:

The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2” football player.

Do I think that Zimmeran was justified in going the Bernie Goetz route? I doubt it, but from the above details, we surely get a decidedly different picture of the events of that night. First, we note that Zimmerman's vigilantism seems justified given the rash of crime going on in his neighborhood. Second, and most importantly, Zimmerman had a bloody nose, grass on his back, and he's actually the one yelling for help. Plausibly, Zimmerman could have made an aggressive gambit towards Trayvon, something like, "hey punk, what the fuck are you doing here?" Trayvon then attacked him, as blacks often do at the slightest sign of disrespect, and an overpowered Zimmerman, being pummeled by Trayvon on top of him, shot Martin in self-defense.

Plausible? Sure. But I surely wouldn't start a million man march on that gross conjecture. Quite simply, we don't have the facts and can't know what happened or who provoked whom. Am I starting to think this is yet another fabricated black martyr, ironically enough at the hands of a falsely characterized white racist? Yes. But again, I don't have the facts; what I do know though is that the popular narrative, in which an overzealous and racist Zimmerman shot Trayvon in cold blood appears absurd.

I don't find this media circus surprising though, with Trayvon being another in a long list of Great Black Victims (GBV). Parallel to Thomas Wolfe's Great White Defendant, an archetype promulgated in media by shows like Law and Order and CSI, the GBV is a personal reflection of the supposed insidiousness of racist white society. The media promotes a falsely sympathetic black "victim" as if white society still engages in random lynchings of blacks and Latinos. Looking at some of their recent GBV's, leftists have had a rough go at actually finding a respectful one:

Martin Luther King Jr: Plagiarist, Communist, and adulterer. On the night before his death, he had an orgy and exclaimed (recorded on FBI surveillance), "I'm fucking for Jesus" and "I'm not a negro tonight!".

Tawana Brawley: "a 15-year-old African-American girl, was found smeared with feces, lying in a garbage bag, her clothing torn and burned and with various [racial] slurs and epithets written on her body in charcoal. Brawley claimed she had been assaulted and raped by six white men, some of them police officers, in the town of Wappinger, New York." Made up the entire ordeal in order to avoid punishment from her violent stepfather. Her mother was involved in the hoax.

O.J. Simpson: Self-explanatory. Now even most black people think he was guilty. Recently charged with armed robbery.

Troy Davis: Executed last year by the state of Georgia. Nicknamed "Rah" for "Rough as Hell". No question he murdered a man in cold blood.

Rodney King: Beating by LAPD cops caught on tape. The cops' acquittal started LA riots of 1992. Two years prior had robbed a California convenience store and served two years in prison. After being pulled over following a lengthy high speed chase, King tested for a BAC of 0.19 - over twice the legal limit. Another drunk driving arrest in 1993, 2003, and 2011. Arrested for trying to run over his wife in 1995.

Crystal Magnum: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse case. Fabricated entire story. Arrested in February 2010 for attempted murder, amongst many other charges, for trying to light her boyfriend on fire. Arrested in April 2011 for stabbing her boyfriend to death.

Jena 6: Six black teenagers beat one white teenager - black community rallies and even gives them a standing ovation at BET Awards. One member had thirteen prior disciplinary actions. One member was arrested for assault within a year of the event. One member was involved in another gang beating, this time with bats, within a year of event. Another member was charged with shoplifting, resisting arrest, and assault about a year after event. This member was also arrested for another assault incident for attacking a man "who ran his mouth."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And yet every so often we get another GBV championed by the media as evidence of racist whitey and his racist racism. Honestly, I think the vast majority of white America rejects this BS (every single white Democrat voter I know was shocked at how blacks reacted to OJ); unfortunately, the masses, even the liberal-leaning masses, can't control the narrative...Still waiting for media reports, marches, rallies, petitions, and demonstrations concerning "Beat Whitey Night" at the Iowa State Fair and the 13 year-old boy lit on fire by two black teens who told him, "You get what you deserve, white boy," amongst countless other undoubtedly random and racist attacks by blacks.
Fucking repped.
 

funkshen

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the point about the zimmerman case is that law enforcement has failed to investigate treyvon martin's death with due diligence, particularly given the circumstances of the killing: zimmerman was informed by law enforcement not to pursue martin, victim was unarmed and apparently called 911 before his death, etc. this doesn't mean that zimmerman is guilty. indeed, a lot of people are simply asking for a rational debate on castle law in florida given the 'tragedy' of this event.

i find it funny, sylvester, that in all the examples you gave of explicity racial attacks: in 3/7 of the cases the perpetrators had been arrested or are being prosecuted, in 5/7 of the cases the perpetrators were youths who are a pain for law enforcement regardless of race, in 3/7 of the cases the perpetrators were unknown, and one case is simply a civil law issue mixed with hate speech. you have successfully made the point that there are racial dimensions to crime in america (particularly youth crime).

however, these crimes all lack the critical elements of treyvon martin's death: the perpetrator is undoubtedly zimmerman, the perpetrator has not been arrested or detained, and the perpetrator is not a youth.

so why the breakdown in proper law enforcement procedure? well, you might say that it's because he's white. i highly doubt this. zimmerman's whiteness has only been brought up through the media trial, and although he is officially a 'white' american or white hispanic, he certainly isn't "white" like other white hispanics (martin sheen or louis c.k.). which is just an indication of the arbitrariness of delimiting whiteness in the middle of an impassioned debate like this. indeed, 100 years ago you would've had people criticising the media for calling an irishman white. so you might say that it is because the victim is black (the al sharpton line etc). the answer doesn't have to be racial; there is a long history of improper investigation of castle law murders.

that first article you linked (american thinker) has a great quote. 'The fact is that, to paraphrase Lincoln, "if you look for the worst in a group, you're sure to find it."' as cosmo err "sandisk" rightly points out, it's inevitable that race trumps the legal intricacies in a high-profile case like this. doesn't meant there's some massive conspiracy being perpetrated. and looking for the worst in a group is exactly what you're doing, that's what "the left" is doing, that's what everyone baying for blood is doing - and it simply isn't about zimmerman or treyvon martin anymore, it's about the rabid prejudices of the crowd. this is a witch hunt, and witch hunts are not about the truth; so staking your claim on some esoteric truth in the middle of a witch hunt is absurd.

just be a bit skeptical folks

edit: just to be clear, it seems quite clear that zimmerman is de jure innocent. only the lunatics are calling for his arrest/death OR reifying him. if you are able to filter out the white noise/loud radical voices, you can see that most of the media and social discussion is about the motivations and circumstances of this crime. zimmerman sees a black kid walking through "his gated community", and follows him in his car. he calls law enforcement and they tell him he should not pursue the kid. zimmerman ignores this and confronts the kid. he is armed with a handgun and willing to use lethal force (castle law vigilantism). the kid is an asshole and attacks him, and unsurprisingly gets shot. this raises questions about racial tensions in florida, and america, and about castle law. that's what this is about, not the violence inherent in the system
 
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