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Refugees, Migrants and the fear of the un-"Australian" (2 Viewers)

smeethaj

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I'm surprised nobody has already started this thread before me given that this is such a current and delicate issue in modern politics. Before i say anything though i request that people refrain from making racist, offensive or discriminatory statements.

With the PM's decision to bring Asian migrants to Australia to work in the WA mines we have seen the resurfacing of the age old cries of unionists and conservatives alike fearing the threat these migrants might pose to Australian jobs and employment opportunities alike. It seems a vast majority of Australians are quick to go up in arms about this supposed threat without taking into account the reluctance of much of the unemployed east-coasters to move to WA and take up mining jobs.

This comes at a time in which one of Australia's central political issues of the day (weather it deserves to be or otherwise) is the 'crisis' of illegal refugees. Since the 90s we have seen the development of hysteria within the community intensified my dramatic claims as in the 'children overboard affair' which proved itself to be false entirely. Breeding from this fear we have seen the increase in policies such as the oppositions (and lets face it - future governments) central policy to "stop the boats" as well as the questionable 'Malaysia solution' despite the law which makes it explicitly clear that migrants can only be deported to a nation which has and maintains a basic standard of refugee treatment (Malaysia does not). Australia ranks 46th in the annual refugee intake despite its national prosperity. We are also the only nation to force mandatory detention on refugees irrespective of age unconcerned of the questionable ethical standards behind this.

I appreciate that it is only human to fear the 'unknown', but have we taken it too far? If we're a nation that's willing to compromise both its economic welfare and its intrinsic social and ethical principles of human rights then where do we draw the line? Do we really even have a line? How far can we be manipulated before we realize it (if at all)?
 

Lolsmith

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First up, your sensibilities are irrelevant. If you want to have a discussion, have a discussion about something and those who can't stick to the topic in any intelligent manner will be treated with rightful ignorance. It's stupid to plead to people about not making racist or discriminatory comments when you're discussing policy that is exactly of that nature.

"our" "social and ethical principles of human rights" are not intrinsic at all and I don't think that word means what you think it means. How are we compromising these so called values if we've been doing this for years? They're already compromised if they ever existed in the first place. How are we compromising economic welfare (I'm not sure entirely what you meant by this, but I'm taking a stab at you using 'welfare' to mean 'health' or 'stability') if Australia *doesn't* accept refugees? From what I gather, they're often unskilled, have degrees and/or training in fields that require domestic accreditation and are thereby useless or require being taken care of by the government via welfare in order to be in stable enough conditions to obtain employment and an income.

When did Gillard specifically make a policy or judgement that brought "asian" migrants to work in the mines in Western Australia? Are you talking about the Roy Hill agreement where 6700 of the (construction) workers *must* be Australian and the final 1700 can be whatever they want, not specifically designated to foreign workers? Because quite frankly, I find that to be centred around Australian workers, not "asian" ones and any serious attention given to that is plain ol' dumb.

If anything this sort of deal just highlights the xenophobia and protectionist idiocy of both the Liberal and Labor party. The labour movement is fraught with racism, it has been for generations and if this sort of shit carries on, it will be for the foreseeable future.
 

soloooooo

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It is absolutely terrible. Australia must put Australians first.

There are plenty of people who actually DO want to go work in WA and in the mines. Those Australians must be given every opportunity first before any overseas Asian workers are bought into the mines.
 

soloooooo

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fearing the threat these migrants might pose to Australian jobs and employment opportunities alike.
and what a very real threat it is.

It seems a vast majority of Australians are quick to go up in arms about this supposed threat
Indeed, a vast majority of Australians do oppose the border policies, immigration and multiculturalism that is forced upon us. If people want to move immigrate to Australia then they adapt into Australian culture - they should not then yell and shout about how Australians must then bow to their culture demands. A bit of international culture is good, although it shouldn't be at the expense of Australian culture and heritage. It is nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture.

Breeding from this fear we have seen the increase in policies such as the oppositions (and lets face it - future governments) central policy to "stop the boats" as well as the questionable 'Malaysia solution' despite the law which makes it explicitly clear that migrants can only be deported to a nation which has and maintains a basic standard of refugee treatment (Malaysia does not). Australia ranks 46th in the annual refugee intake despite its national prosperity. We are also the only nation to force mandatory detention on refugees irrespective of age unconcerned of the questionable ethical standards behind this.
'Stop the boats' is a valid slogan and one that both sides of politics in Australia acknowledge as something that must be done. The Malaysia 'solution' was downright stupid.

I would think that most Australians don't have a problem with Australia accepting genuine refugees through the proper channels. However when we see Captain Emad esque 'refugees' and asylum seekers paying money to get on a bot to skip the que to get to Australia then that is a farce and a disgrace.

I appreciate that it is only human to fear the 'unknown', but have we taken it too far?
No, we need to get a lot tougher on it. It was only a few months ago that the (then) French President claimed multiculturalism has failed in France with many (not all) immigrants failing to assimilate into France. Australia is next at the rate we are heading currently.
 

smeethaj

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lolsmith - despite your tone appearing somewhat disagreeing i believe we are presenting roughly the same argument. That is the "xenophobic protectionist idiocy of both the Liberal and Labor party" as you so eloquently phrased it. As far as the violation of human rights is concerned thank you so much for explicitly stating the obvious that 'natural rights' do not function in many circumstances. I'm sure none of us would have been aware of it if you hadn't said so. Now that we've finished stating the obvious however i would like to highlight that i was referring to aspects of 'democracy' and 'the rule of law' not natural rights as you seem to be implying. Things like the right to innocence which mandatory detention restricts and for which the government has seen many complaints from the international community but to no avail. As for the economy i was referring to the uproar that erupted over the PM supporting Rineharts decision to bring 1700 foreign workers to Australia, not necessarily the refugees. Though in terms of the refugees i understand that many of them are educated professionals within their own country, yes their qualifications aren't entirely valued, but i am of the personal persuasion that an examination in their field to test their standard and then inducing them into the community to become viable members of society is a better solution then mandatory detention. Naturally, you aren't required to agree with me.

soloooooo - Nowhere will you see me suggesting that Australian workers who are willing to take up those jobs should not be preferenced above foreign applicants. That was not my argument at all. I merely disagree with the idiocy of the suggestion that 'foreign workers are threatening Australian workers by taking their jobs' if it is in relation to jobs that Australian workers either do not want to do, or are not qualified to do. Australia is one of the most successful multicultural communities in the world. A level of induction into the Australian culture is required but this goes too far when a person is restricted cultural freedom going so far as to tell an individual what they should wear in public and to suggest that "if you cant agree with it then you shouldn't be here". "Jump the cue"? What you have to realize is that when its a life or death situation, there is no cue! I'm not saying legal asylum seekers shouldn't be benefited first for waiting. Just that if a person is willing to risk the illegal way, that is going on the boats paying heaps of money with the possibility of dieing on the boats and guaranteed imprisonment on the other side then maybe their threats really are that real. Maybe they should be provided with a chance to, i don't know, stay alive. The suggestion of inducing them into the community would prevent them from being a burden on the system, having taxpayers pay for their food and shelter.
 

Lentern

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First up, your sensibilities are irrelevant. If you want to have a discussion, have a discussion about something and those who can't stick to the topic in any intelligent manner will be treated with rightful ignorance. It's stupid to plead to people about not making racist or discriminatory comments when you're discussing policy that is exactly of that nature.

"our" "social and ethical principles of human rights" are not intrinsic at all and I don't think that word means what you think it means. How are we compromising these so called values if we've been doing this for years? They're already compromised if they ever existed in the first place. How are we compromising economic welfare (I'm not sure entirely what you meant by this, but I'm taking a stab at you using 'welfare' to mean 'health' or 'stability') if Australia *doesn't* accept refugees? From what I gather, they're often unskilled, have degrees and/or training in fields that require domestic accreditation and are thereby useless or require being taken care of by the government via welfare in order to be in stable enough conditions to obtain employment and an income.

When did Gillard specifically make a policy or judgement that brought "asian" migrants to work in the mines in Western Australia? Are you talking about the Roy Hill agreement where 6700 of the (construction) workers *must* be Australian and the final 1700 can be whatever they want, not specifically designated to foreign workers? Because quite frankly, I find that to be centred around Australian workers, not "asian" ones and any serious attention given to that is plain ol' dumb.

If anything this sort of deal just highlights the xenophobia and protectionist idiocy of both the Liberal and Labor party. The labour movement is fraught with racism, it has been for generations and if this sort of shit carries on, it will be for the foreseeable future.
Don't be so tetchy.
 

Lentern

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But you don't need to be so heavy handed about it.
 

funkshen

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australian jobs for australians

if you dont like it leave
 

funkshen

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lentern thinks australian jobs should be exclusively for non australians
 

Lentern

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lentern thinks australian jobs should be exclusively for non australians
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of people bandying the "love it or leave it" phrase before grumbling about the country going to the dogs on the back of horrible migrants and their multiculture.
 
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khorne

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australian jobs for australians

if you dont like it leave
It's not the company's fault if they want to make a quick buck, but can't drag some sorry arsed uni grad to do hardwork, because everyone thinks they're worth their weight in gold when they come out with a degree.

We run by a loosely regulated market, we pay the price. Can't be eating two pies now
 

alstah

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I agree. Australian jobs for Australians, inclusive of migrants.
 

krnofdrg

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People are free to come here legally, but not illegally onto our shores as it is a financial burden to hard working Australians and also a threat to our national security.
 

Lolsmith

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I didn't say 'exclusive'? lol. How is that racist?
Your statement is inherently redundant if you give specific ethnic/national parameters to who can seek work but mean that anyone can work any job in this country, regardless of their nationality or ethnicity. Unless what you meant by migrants is that they are citizens of this country, but were not born here and are therefore still "australians" in "australian jobs" (what does this even mean?), you're bandying the same type of nonsense as: "white jobs for white workers".
People are free to come here legally, but not illegally onto our shores as it is a financial burden to hard working Australians and also a threat to our national security.
Please explain how they are a threat to national security
 

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