Less maths makes HSC physics 'dumb' (1 Viewer)

flashyGoldFish

Active Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
465
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Less maths makes HSC physics 'dumb'
Date
January 4, 2014
90 reading nowRead later
Amy McNeilage
Amy McNeilage
Reporter
View more articles from Amy McNeilage
Follow Amy on Twitter Follow Amy on Google+ Email Amy
Tweet
Pin Itsubmit to redditEmail articlePrintReprints & permissions

"There are a substantial number of marks assigned to answering what I think are frequently Mickey Mouse questions": Richard Hunstead.
"There are a substantial number of marks assigned to answering what I think are frequently Mickey Mouse questions": Richard Hunstead. Photo: Cathryn Tremain
The Board of Studies will review the HSC Physics syllabus this year to assess whether a move away from mathematical content had weakened the subject.

University lecturers said high school physics had been ''dumbed down'' and focused on the history of physics at the expense of rigorous mathematical analysis and problem-solving. As a result, they said, students often arrive at university with a distorted view of what physics is and whether they are good at it.

There are a substantial number of marks assigned to answering what I think are frequently Mickey Mouse questions

The debate adds to concerns raised by Australia's chief scientist, Professor Ian Chubb, about the national shortage of science, technology, engineering and maths skills. In 2012 he released a report saying it was in the national interest to strengthen the science and maths supply line as a matter of urgency.

Yet HSC enrolments show students increasingly opt for general mathematics instead of the more challenging 2-unit maths. And the proportion of students studying physics is sliding.

Advertisement
The associate head of teaching and learning in physics at the University of Sydney, Associate Professor John O'Byrne, said the ''crashing numbers'' in physics were part of the reason the mathematical content of the subject was reduced when the syllabus was restructured about a decade ago.

''They're trying to present a physics course that will attract a range of people,'' he said. ''You don't do that by making an intensely mathematical physics course, unfortunately.''

But Richard Hunstead, who is a physics lecturer at the University of Sydney and assesses HSC exam papers for the Board of Studies, said he is uncomfortable with the ''touchy feely'' questions.

''There are a substantial number of marks assigned to answering what I think are frequently Mickey Mouse questions, which rely on rote learning and parroting back material from the textbook,'' he said.

''This is one of the things that irks me when I review the paper each year. It appears the Board of Studies is quite adamant that they want to make it an all singing and dancing course that has a more wider compass if you like. It touches on more subject areas but it does it in rather superficial ways.'' Consequently, he said, some students arrive at university without the adequate ''mathematical competence or insight''.

''I think the level of maths that is now expected of students in the HSC has actually dumbed down what we are able to offer in first year [university].''

The first-year physics director at the University of NSW, Elizabeth Angstmann, said the HSC course was more of an arts subject than a science.

''About a third of the syllabus is history-based, rather than actually solving physics problems,'' she said.

The president of the Board of Studies, Tom Alegounarias, said it was ''a substantial exaggeration'' to suggest HSC physics was more of a history than a science. But he conceded there was ''more language in it and less scientific and mathematical analysis''.

While he was not certain why the changes to the subject were made, he said that ''I can imagine it was about communication being just as important as the maths''.



Read more: Less maths makes HSC physics 'dumb'
 

LANADELREY

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
36
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
Science is all math when you get down to it, even the social sciences.

Like it or not, there's a huge range of difference between people in math ability. Putting in irrelevant "Mickey Mouse" questions e.g. about the history of physics is just an attempt to get the students with poor math ability but average/above average verbal ability to score higher. It won't help them beyond high school.
 

Drongoski

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,252
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
And we now have Math General 1 and Maths General 2, if I'm not mistaken. They're trying to make Maths more accessible.


The Clever Country.
 
Last edited:

Parvee

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
1,077
Gender
Female
HSC
2012
lol its amy
I wonder if she read it here first and then decided to follow it up
 

anomalousdecay

Premium Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
5,769
Gender
Male
HSC
2013

Carrotsticks

Retired
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
9,494
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Eugh.

Those wanting to do Physics, without having the proper Mathematical foundations, should NOT be doing Physics.

Students wanting to study real Physics shouldn't have to suffer the endless "Evaluate the impact of ..." or "Assess X's contribution to ...", just so BOS can cater to those who fit the description of the above line.

Sure, you have a higher number of enrollments, but what exactly is the Board of Studies trying to achieve here? What's the point of having a higher enrollment rate if the students come out knowing little/nothing about real Physics here, then realising that the Board of Studies essentially screwed them over?

If they want to have a rough idea of how things work conceptually (either for self-interest or for showing off their 'Jack of all trades' knowledge) they should be watching YouTube videos, looking around on Wikipedia (quite useful for gaining a rough idea actually) or better yet asking a friend (who knows REAL physics) to explain it to them.

Meanwhile, at the Board of Studies...

 

kaz1

et tu
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
6,960
Location
Vespucci Beach
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2009
Uni Grad
2018
If they make HSC physics "real" physics it would be rival 4unit maths as the hardest course, most teachers wouldn't be qualified to teach it and not many people would do it since the trend is that people are too scared to do 2unit Maths and are moving to General.
 

Carrotsticks

Retired
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
9,494
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
If they make HSC physics "real" physics it would be rival 4unit maths as the hardest course, most teachers wouldn't be qualified to teach it and not many people would do it since the trend is that people are too scared to do 2unit Maths and are moving to General.
Personally, to dig into the subject with any substantial depth, I think the student should have MX2 knowledge. However, this is of course highly impractical.

However, at the very least, the student taking the course should know calculus. But I can imagine that there would be many issues with schools teaching calculus at different times, so they may have to shuffle around their order of topics etc.

I would rather quality over quantity when it comes the the output of students from schools into University, but that is merely my opinion. Clearly, the Board of Studies thinks otherwise.
 

rumbleroar

Survivor of the HSC
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
2,271
Gender
Female
HSC
2014
And we now have Math General 1 and Maths General 2, if I'm not mistaken. They're trying to make Maths more accessible.

The Clever Country.
What??? Is this actually legit?
 

Drongoski

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,252
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
lol its amy
I wonder if she read it here first and then decided to follow it up
I've been thinking the same thing, as many here no doubt have. Bored is a goldmine for education writers, because, here, they can find many issues to follow up on that they themselves are not aware of.
 
Last edited:

study1234

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2011
Messages
181
Gender
Male
HSC
2015
Need more scientific concepts, and less 'Assess the impact of..."
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
2,225
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2012
Yay Dick Hunstead - good man. He came in and complained to us first years last year...and now he's doing it again. Rightly so.

Just had a look at the Phys paper from last year ('13) - so many fluff questions...and the bulk of the calculations were pretty standard. (pretty standard being textbook style questions).

They should revert back to the old syllabus where 3U maths was assumed/expected. Having MX2 expected is unreasonable and probably not needed. Calculus should be assumed, as this is fundamental to most of the projectile motion and electromagnetism done in high school (and first year). General physics + mathematical physics courses could be made I guess...but who knows maybe it'll all go out when the national syllabus comes in (loool nope)
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
2,225
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2012
How would it work? What type of physics would you implement in each of those proposed subjects?
It wouldn't work ==

Two streams of physics would be enough. One more history and philosophy of physics, and one mathematical physics (in the high school sense).
 

brent012

Webmaster
Webmaster
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
5,283
Gender
Male
HSC
2011
They don't have to make a course relying on knowledge of calculus, algebra and trig would be fine. Kind of like the AP Physics B subject in the US which was designed for high school students to study and potentially get credit for a first uni year subject. Could model the subject like the other AP Physics and just make 2u a prereq I guess, subject would probably get a reputation for it's scaling eventually and at least match the current amount of people studying HSC physics.

Engineering Studies HSC students do free body diagrams, even adding them to HSC Physics and focussing a bit more on projectile motion would be a good start.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
2,225
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2012
If they made a hist/phil of science/physics that would most certainly involve essay writing (rote learning of 5-8 markers should also be discouraged..)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top