Why are people choosing to pursue a career in medicine? (2 Viewers)

[PatHummels]

first post i've seen where you are actually positive about your work
Everytime someone sees you post about something medicine related, it's always about how shit and negative it is (except for your latest one about how you're very popular with your patients). Therefore it is no surprise that everyone's perception of you is basically; 'the guy that complains about medicine' which is why everyone here is wondering why you still even do medicine.

 

[Futuremedstudent]

It's clear that you know nothing about me. Patients love me and I have great rapport with all my patients. The only downside to medicine for me is the research and need to memorise so much content.



Once you already have a job it's easy. The Government increased consultancy places 20 years ago so people back then found it easier to find a job. If you have done a PHD or Masters in the last 10 years it would also not have been difficult to find a job. If you're talking about BPT registrars jobs are more widely available but I still have seen people go unaccredited, if you're talking advanced trainees there's a steep decline. If you're talking about surgical registrars there are still people missing out and doing unaccredited years. I think because medicine has always been easy to find a job the relative difficulty nowadays is much worse but comparatively to other careers may not be that bad.

Ok I agree with this but with med literally anyone who wants a job after their internship and residency gets one. Even a person who works at kfc after they finish med school can get a job and even myself I don't do much (only study) and I know I can get job. I know finding a job won't be hard and it will stay the same for at least another 100 years. So, I think the whole idea of false insecurity and competition is wrong and probs steers away people.

 

[Futuremedstudent]

first post i've seen where you are actually positive about your work
Everytime someone sees you post about something medicine related, it's always about how shit and negative it is (except for your latest one about how you're very popular with your patients). Therefore it is no surprise that everyone's perception of you is basically; 'the guy that complains about medicine' which is why everyone here is wondering why you still even do medicine.

Mate, he's probs an intern now and if he hated his job then he would've quit in the first 2 years of med school. It's not an easy task being a doctor and he has the right to complain about the difficulty of his job.

 

[emilios]

inb4 secret ploy to discourage people from doing medicine so it's less competitive and Medman can find a job easier lol.

Just kidding. But yeah, I have a question. Instead of me asking why you want out - why do you still stay in? What's actually keeping you in the course, because I feel like there's a lot of unsaid things you might actually enjoy in your job e.g. patient interactions. Or is it just a matter of fulfilling an obligation (esp if you're asian lol).

Also Medman, you raise some genuine points e.g. how being a doctor is more of a lifestyle than a career and I'm starting to believe that if you really don't love what you do you'll grow to despise it.

However the argument of the poor job market is pretty weak considering (and I am not exaggerating here) that every uni student has discouraged me from entering their course because of the poor job market i.e. it's a pretty universal thing. With the exception of engineers flying over to WA, I've been told the same thing by people in courses ranging from Commerce, Actuarial Studies, Medical Science (hell most sciences), Finance, Engineering (biomed, electrical, civil), Pharmacy, Law, Teaching, etc. I'm not implying what they're saying is true, just that everybody is saying the same exact thing, so I really don't know if your argument holds up. With so many specialties out there, not getting into your no. 1 dream field sounds like a first world problem.

 

[emilios]

Mate, he's probs an intern now and if he hated his job then he would've quit in the first 2 years of med school. It's not an easy task being a doctor and he has the right to complain about the difficulty of his job.

Kid's got a point. To an extent, most people go through phases of hating their job and almost everyone complains about their job to a degree. Pretty sure even male 'adult' actors will sigh and force themselves to get out of bed some mornings.

 

[Futuremedstudent]

inb4 secret ploy to discourage people from doing medicine so it's less competitive and Medman can find a job easier lol.

Just kidding. But yeah, I have a question. Instead of me asking why you want out - why do you still stay in? What's actually keeping you in the course, because I feel like there's a lot of unsaid things you might actually enjoy in your job e.g. patient interactions. Or is it just a matter of fulfilling an obligation (esp if you're asian lol).

Also Medman, you raise some genuine points e.g. how being a doctor is more of a lifestyle than a career and I'm starting to believe that if you really don't love what you do you'll grow to despise it.

However the argument of the poor job market is pretty weak considering (and I am not exaggerating here) that every uni student has discouraged me from entering their course because of the poor job market i.e. it's a pretty universal thing. With the exception of engineers flying over to WA, I've been told the same thing by people in courses ranging from Commerce, Actuarial Studies, Medical Science (hell most sciences), Finance, Engineering (biomed, electrical, civil), Pharmacy, Law, Teaching, etc. I'm not implying what they're saying is true, just that everybody is saying the same exact thing, so I really don't know if your argument holds up. With so many specialties out there, not getting into your no. 1 dream field sounds like a first world problem.

ok, i fully agree with you. I'm not joking, there are soo many fields out there is med it's not even funny. I mean there's enough that everyone can at least 1 (even 2 depending on your location). Just cos one doesn't get there first choice doesn't mean it's the end of the world. I mean you are still a doctor and helping people, so just chill.

 

[Medman]

However the argument of the poor job market is pretty weak considering (and I am not exaggerating here) that every uni student has discouraged me from entering their course because of the poor job market i.e. it's a pretty universal thing. With the exception of engineers flying over to WA, I've been told the same thing by people in courses ranging from Commerce, Actuarial Studies, Medical Science (hell most sciences), Finance, Engineering (biomed, electrical, civil), Pharmacy, Law, Teaching, etc. I'm not implying what they're saying is true, just that everybody is saying the same exact thing, so I really don't know if your argument holds up. With so many specialties out there, not getting into your no. 1 dream field sounds like a first world problem.

My problem is students wanting to do medicine without knowing the some aspects of what is going to happen in the near future. Many students believe what their parents say, job market is fine in medicine you will be guaranteed a job. Yes that rang true 20 years ago but no longer. Like I mentioned earlier comparatively it is not as difficult to find a job compared to other fields. The reason why I raised the specialty training issue is training is conducted almost purely in the public system. Meaning if you do not find a public position as a junior doctor you are pretty screwed. Currently, the system is reaching almost maximum capacity at least in Westmead for junior doctors waiting to get onto training programs. If you continually fail to get onto a training program, eventually the hospital may choose to end your contract.

Also not getting your specialty of choice is almost like your comparison to not getting into medicine for you at least for some people. Specialties are extremely niche areas and even within specialties there are subspecialties and if you are intent to pursue one area and get told you can't, there will always be a niggling feeling.

Ok I agree with this but with med literally anyone who wants a job after their internship and residency gets one. Even a person who works at kfc after they finish med school can get a job and even myself I don't do much (only study) and I know I can get job. I know finding a job won't be hard and it will stay the same for at least another 100 years. So, I think the whole idea of false insecurity and competition is wrong and probs steers away people.

That is a false assumption that everyone can get a job after your first 2 years of medicine. The problem with the medicine job market is that it is publicly funded and if there are more applications than positions available for specialty training you basically are out of a job as the private sector opportunities are almost nil (There are some avenues around it that I have heard but am not 100% sure about). If you haven't realised the number of medical places almost doubled in the last few years with few increases in the progressive training of doctors. This results in doctors working in hospitals who are not under any training program. Eventually it will be limited due to funding and the backlog of doctors waiting to get onto programs increases. In the next 5-10 years unless something is changed you will start to see an increasing difficulty finding jobs for further training for doctors. I don't know where you get your information regarding not worrying for 100 years but you seem ignorant to the current problem which has been published in newspapers nation wide about lack of internship places? Now I already said further training positions are lower than the number of internship places in addition you will be competing with overseas doctors to get on those training programs.

 

[Medman]

Kid's got a point. To an extent, most people go through phases of hating their job and almost everyone complains about their job to a degree. Pretty sure even male 'adult' actors will sigh and force themselves to get out of bed some mornings.

Don't get me wrong, I think medicine is an extremely rewarding career and to those patients that you can affect you do feel a great sense of gratification. I am not passionate in some areas which consultants favourably consider to progress your career so therefore, I am thinking of doing something else I am interested in along with medicine or related to the health industry. I am not someone who has chosen a set path for myself and I want to keep my eyes open for other opportunities also I enjoy teaching so hopefully, that is something I can incorporate into my career.

 

[ninetypercent]

Bottom line - doing anything is hard.

I also think people wanting to do Medicine for prestige, money & to help people will be in for a rude shock when they actually become doctors. With the Medical Student Tsunami, getting into the specialty of your choice is extremely competitive with many drs in the future to be stuck in limbo waiting to get into specialty training. Hours are also long and gruelling and on top of that, there comes specialty exams so you must attend tutorials and lectures whilst working & also a heap of responsibility when you are a registrar.
Recently there has been a growing number of fully trained anaesthetists who haven't been able to find consultancy posts after completing training. This is bound to get harder in future years due to the glut of doctors in the system and limited consultant positions. Many doctors will have to move to the rural areas or outer city regions to find employment. At the moment, there is political pressure on govt to provide all local students with an internship but beyond that, the govt doesn't guarantee registrar or residency positions. It will be all about supply and demand and as supply of non fully trained doctors outstrips demand, there may be drs finding themselves unemployed or stuck in limbo for a few years. This is not hard to manage. The hospital can't just create extra positions because there is a limited amount of beds and patients in the hospital.

Medman is absolutely correct and it is naive to think otherwise. There are many doctors who quit after a few years of medicine. Medical School and TV dramas do not provide the most accurate depiction of what it is like to be a doctor.

 

[Queenroot]

Bottom line - doing anything is hard.

I also think people wanting to do Medicine for prestige, money & to help people will be in for a rude shock when they actually become doctors. With the Medical Student Tsunami, getting into the specialty of your choice is extremely competitive with many drs in the future to be stuck in limbo waiting to get into specialty training. Hours are also long and gruelling and on top of that, there comes specialty exams so you must attend tutorials and lectures whilst working & also a heap of responsibility when you are a registrar.
Recently there has been a growing number of fully trained anaesthetists who haven't been able to find consultancy posts after completing training. This is bound to get harder in future years due to the glut of doctors in the system and limited consultant positions. Many doctors will have to move to the rural areas or outer city regions to find employment. At the moment, there is political pressure on govt to provide all local students with an internship but beyond that, the govt doesn't guarantee registrar or residency positions. It will be all about supply and demand and as supply of non fully trained doctors outstrips demand, there may be drs finding themselves unemployed or stuck in limbo for a few years. This is not hard to manage. The hospital can't just create extra positions because there is a limited amount of beds and patients in the hospital.

Medman is absolutely correct and it is naive to think otherwise. There are many doctors who quit after a few years of medicine. Medical School and TV dramas do not provide the most accurate depiction of what it is like to be a doctor.

But that's the thing right? Most people want to work in the metropolitan. I probably wouldn't have a problem going to rural areas and such where there are shortages.

 

[Medman]

^Thank you ninetypercent. Yes you are definitely right with the bottom line. Succeeding in anything is hard but medicine will start to get progressively more difficult as people you're competing with are extremely talented and hard working individuals. To differentiate yourself, you will be required to be inputting more time and effort into other areas such as volunteering, research etc. This is like ninetypercent said on top of study (both textbook and clinical studies), attendance of learning sessions, long hours (evening shifts and on call nights), research commitments and other commitments you have in your life.

There is huge issues with funding especially since Tony Abbott wants to cut more from public health system. There is already issues with Westmead not paying their doctors overtime which is also a problem with the culture. Some people believe you shouldn't be demanding more money as a doctor but it's rather the principle. In every other job if you're working overtime more likely than not you will be paid overtime. The hospital is already overburdened with patients and most doctors work more than their rostered hours just to sort things out. Unless you are one of those very unique individuals, anyone working 7am-8pm everyday without the extra 5 hour pay will feel devalued and fatigued.

As you can guys can see someone in medicine right now is more aware of the currently situation as we will be in a precarious position in a few years time. Like I said earlier I don't want to discourage the students only set on medicine but it may help people who are sitting on the fence regarding medicine make a more informed decision about their future.

 

[ninetypercent]

^Thank you ninetypercent. Yes you are definitely right with the bottom line. Succeeding in anything is hard but medicine will start to get progressively more difficult as people you're competing with are extremely talented and hard working individuals. To differentiate yourself, you will be required to be inputting more time and effort into other areas such as volunteering, research etc. This is like ninetypercent said on top of study (both textbook and clinical studies), attendance of learning sessions, long hours (evening shifts and on call nights), research commitments and other commitments you have in your life.

There is huge issues with funding especially since Tony Abbott wants to cut more from public health system. There is already issues with Westmead not paying their doctors overtime which is also a problem with the culture. Some people believe you shouldn't be demanding more money as a doctor but it's rather the principle. In every other job if you're working overtime more likely than not you will be paid overtime. The hospital is already overburdened with patients and most doctors work more than their rostered hours just to things sorted.

As you can guys can see someone in medicine right now is more aware of the currently situation as we will be in a precarious position in a few years time. Like I said earlier I don't want ti discourage the genuine students wanting to study medicine but it may help people who are sitting on the fence regarding medicine make a more informed decision about their future.

I agree. It's important for people to know what they are getting into when applying for medicine. I've heard and seen of so many doctors drop out in the first few years. The hierarchical structure in medicine means that bullying is rife in medicine.
There are med students now thinking about getting themselves published to increase chances of getting into their specialty in the future but in the past, this wasn't as well heard of. The medical student tsunami has made it much more competitive to get training specialties and the scary bit is because there are too many junior doctors, many may not get enough clinical exposure and experience and as a result I think the training programs might be thinking of extend training for some years. The media and politicians mainly focus on the internship side of things but when it comes down to it, what happens after internship - registrar and training positions and the training bottleneck is much much more serious and harder to resolve.

Also regarding doctors should not care about money, that is just silly. Doctors have mortgages to pay off, families to look after too. Money is important in life, that is a fact. Public system operates on a minimal cost basis so it's incredibly difficult for admin to acknowledge the overtime shifts a doctor has done without them saying 'oh you should have been more efficient'. Doctors often have no control over what time they will work and often where they will work too with moving around hospital networks and rural secondments being common.

It is absolutely naive for someone to go into Medicine without doing research about the lifestyle and what the career entails beforehand.

 

[enoilgam]

Definitely agree with what ninetypercent and medman have said above. I wanted to do Medicine for a long time and in researching it I discovered that it isnt an easy career and certainly not the "guaranteed career" that people think. As I said before, I wouldnt do it solely for the money because there are far better options out there. In saying that though, money should be a factor in any career choice, but if it is your major motivation, I'd consider something else.

I should add that I still wanted to do Medicine even after doing my research.

 

[ninetypercent]

Definitely agree with what ninetypercent and medman have said above. I wanted to do Medicine for a long time and in researching it I discovered that it isnt an easy career and certainly not the "guaranteed career" that people think. As I said before, I wouldnt do it solely for the money because there are far better options out there. In saying that though, money should be a factor in any career choice, but if it is your major motivation, I'd consider something else.

I should add that I still wanted to do Medicine even after doing my research.

Good luck! Great to see you have done your research. Interviewers like seeing applicants with a mature, realistic perspective of what Medicine entails and why they want to do it

 

[Medman]

Definitely agree with what ninetypercent and medman have said above. I wanted to do Medicine for a long time and in researching it I discovered that it isnt an easy career and certainly not the "guaranteed career" that people think. As I said before, I wouldnt do it solely for the money because there are far better options out there. In saying that though, money should be a factor in any career choice, but if it is your major motivation, I'd consider something else.

I should add that I still wanted to do Medicine even after doing my research.

Definitely second this and best of luck! Let me know if you need any help (I do enjoy mentoring). I did not do extensive research and did not have a mentor to warn me about these things. It's hard to say whether I would have changed my mind but dentistry was a possible option given the more flexible work hours. I am doing this so future students can get an idea of what the future currently holds for doctors and make the right decision as once you get in, it is often much harder to come out due to family/peer pressure etc. Even doing medicine you don't need to necessarily stick with it, there are doctors who have went into management consulting or other areas. I am still discovering my interests as I was not one of those kids that had a definitive mindset so although I do enjoy medicine, I will also keep an eye out for other things that interest me.

 

[Schmeag]

Not to mention that physicians don't always get satisfying results for their patients and often it's a case of administering meds to alleviate symptoms or even in some cases just to palliate rather than saving a life.

End of life care, if well managed, can be very satisfying for all involved.

Medman is absolutely correct and it is naive to think otherwise.

I think naivety is good in moderation. The experience of medicine cannot be replicated in words, and there will always be a sense of naivety in any fresh-out-of-high-school student. I went into medicine thinking it was going to be a lot of hard work and responsibility, but without any specific idea of what it would be really like. My only exposure to medicine previously had been trips to the GP. My favoured course at the time was Arts/Law but various factors conspired to alter my course to Medicine and before I knew it, I was in the course, enjoying some parts and not enjoying as parts in equal measure. Most of the time, I studied to pass and didn't do much else. Now I enjoy my job, even despite all its frustrations.

Naivety played a great part in getting me to where I am today.

 

[hayabusaboston]

My reasoning would be MONEY and the fact I really enjoy the intellectual material that goes along with it.

But srsly

Money for me is like hnnnngg

 

[Havox]

My reasoning would be MONEY

Totally should not have picked medicine then. Plenty more money elsewhere.

 

[hayabusaboston]

Totally should not have picked medicine then. Plenty more money elsewhere.

hence 2nd part of my post bro, associated intellectual material Is very enjoyable

 

[Medman]

It's a stable income source which you could invest into other things.

Never knew the cost of living was so bad until I started paying my own bills. My golly you don't think money is important? Yeh if you don't want to enjoy life then that is fine. Money is slowly creeping up on the list of priorities now.