Advice (1 Viewer)

[murthyakshtih]

Hey guys i have currently finished my hsc this year, and i have a few questions to current business as well past business students at uts, the main questions are based around employment perspectives as well as worthwhile and overall course difficulty in undertaking double degrees

Business/law, a lot of people have stated to me in the past that a lot of big 4 banks and top tier positions within investment banking and asset management heavily consist of business/law (com/law) students, will a straight degree with honours be enough to get into higher positions within banks

Business/international studies, i find this as an interesting double degree as it still allows an individual to undertake two majors within the business component,whilst learning discluding engineering need advice on this

Business/biotechnology i know i should probably post this on the Uts science forum, but i thought i might as well include it here i am also interested in this however am concerned as i only undertook physics up to the 2 term of hsc before i dropped it, could any current students undertaking this degree please give me some insight into if it diffcult to undertake without prior science knowledge. when i contacted the uni in regards to this they stated it was not needed however i was just curious as to the level of difficulty involved

As a final question, i have a heavy focus and interest in finance which i chose as my primary major, if aplicable to the degrees above including straight business, what type of jobs will a major in economics with finance or accounting with finance provide thanks in advance to those who respond,I'm more the less in search for some advice for not only myself but others thanks again

 

[RivalryofTroll]

First of all, getting into IB is ridiculously and insanely difficult (you'll need a HD average, the positions are usually for students from Go8 universities such as USYD, UNSW, etc.).

Yes, Commerce/Law students (law students in general) tend to be the most capable, driven and competitive and this would explain why they are successful in getting positions in IB. But examples such as Commerce students (with Honours in Finance) and Commerce/Engineering students are just as competitive if they have strong grades + experience + extra curricular activities as well.

Here's a somewhat relevant thread about combined degrees.
http://community.boredofstudies.org/115/university-new-south-wales/330955/commerce-law-vs-commerce-engineering.html

I've just completed my 1st year of Business/Law at UTS and in terms of overall course difficulty, there's nothing beyond comprehension.

You'll most likely find your 1st year law subjects harder than your 1st year business/commerce subjects.

In your first year, as a Business/Law student, you would do 6 business/commerce subjects and 2 law subjects across 2 semesters.

 

[Chronost]

As RoT said, if you're wanting to get into an IB position at an IB from UTS...goodluck, you'll need HD average in Comm/LAW (which itself is quite hard), plus some pre-good extra-cirrculars, unfortunately something which UTS lacks in terms of IB relevant ECs (alot of the bank competitions and events happen more at UNSW and USYD then UTS). Don't think so much about what people have at the top-tier, once you're in anyone who works hard can get a top-tier position,think more entry-level first which is the hardest part to do. Retail Banks (e.g) Big 4 you'll have a better chance to get into, just keep good grades and ECs, they are easier but still quite hard to get into(and is managable at UTS).

Business/International Studies will not increase your employment(unless you're doing a language, and they'll only look at your language ability then, not the degree itself), the international studies part is just a bunch of theory which isn't that relevant to application to commerce jobs, or rather alot of is common sense when you start a job in the sector. They'll mostly look into the business degree part of it.

Not too sure about biotechonlogy, but not exactly a complimentary degree, that being said allows you more of a choice between going into two different industries, however if you're set about finance it's not exactly the most relevant degree to have (and not as prized in commerce as an engineering degree which gives you a more analytical and quantative skillset,unless your major is quite quantative).

Straight Business is still a very good degree,if you can get some good ECs and use your spare time productively you can still land a bank job as comm/law, but just makes it harder since you'll have to work harder on your ECs in less time, the pay off is if you get in you have a 2 year headstart on someone doing comm/law and 2 years worth of salary and experience vs 2 years uni debt and less exp(comm/law student would do another internship or two by then, so they will still gather experience). That said for an IB position you'll definitely need honours or basically deans list merit (at a Go8 uni,as mentioned before you'll have to smash ECs at UTS to get considered even, they still discriminate unfortunately)

 

[Utseconfin]

All nonsense by people who don't know what they're talking about. There is no need for a hd average lols and don't worry about this g08 crap. I wouldn't advise you to do international studies as it neither useful nor interesting. Bus/law is very common but law requires a fair amount of motivation. Bus/bio would be quite interesting esp if you're interested in bio stuff. In term of employability, getting a job is not too difficult if you're half decent. Companies care about the skills of their prospective employees not the university they came from. Just be good at what you do and that's all you need to worry about.

 

[Chronost]

All nonsense by people who don't know what they're talking about. There is no need for a hd average lols and don't worry about this g08 crap. I wouldn't advise you to do international studies as it neither useful nor interesting. Bus/law is very common but law requires a fair amount of motivation. Bus/bio would be quite interesting esp if you're interested in bio stuff. In term of employability, getting a job is not too difficult if you're half decent. Companies care about the skills of their prospective employees not the university they came from. Just be good at what you do and that's all you need to worry about.

Yes we do know what we're talking about. You're talking about getting a job in general, which is fine. OP specifically mentioned IB, which we commented about to shed some light about getting a job there.

 

[Utseconfin]

Yes we do know what we're talking about. You're talking about getting a job in general, which is fine. OP specifically mentioned IB, which we commented about to shed some light about getting a job there.

lols you did your hsc in 2013 and you think you know the job market?
Real life experience, common sense and economic theory tells me you're wrong. OP people who don't get into IB always need to find an excuse. Of these excuses the most popular is 'it's because i didn't go to USYD or UNSW.' It's all bs. In general, the only reason i would advise you to go to UNSW/USYD is because the students there have much more drive and so you'll be much more aware of opportunities that come up etc. That being said, let me assure you that you don't know what you want to go into. Saying you want to get into IB is something kids finishing the HSC just say. As such, don't choose the uni because you think you want to get into IB. Uni is 3/4/5 years of your life, you do not want to be miserable throughout it.

 

[Chronost]

lols you did your hsc in 2013 and you think you know the job market?
Real life experience, common sense and economic theory tells me you're wrong. OP people who don't get into IB always need to find an excuse. Of these excuses the most popular is 'it's because i didn't go to USYD or UNSW.' It's all bs. In general, the only reason i would advise you to go to UNSW/USYD is because the students there have much more drive and so you'll be much more aware of opportunities that come up etc. That being said, let me assure you that you don't know what you want to go into. Saying you want to get into IB is something kids finishing the HSC just say. As such, don't choose the uni because you think you want to get into IB. Uni is 3/4/5 years of your life, you do not want to be miserable throughout it.

Yes I do, because i work full-time in the commerce industry and networked with many people who work at IBs so I think i know a bit about what I'm talking about.Real life experience? You work at an IB? No cause then you wouldn't be so bored as to stumble on a student forum. Common sense...right so basically the facts and statistics which links back to majority of grads being USYD/UNSW compared to UTS and lastly economic theory which has absolutely nothing to do with this. Link me half a dozen people that graduated from UTS (that aren't on the B.Accounting scholarship(even then)) which have an investment banker position. You'll be hard pressed to find maybe one or two at most, reality is they much rather take a graduate from UNSW/USYD. Further evidence? You see all those seminars/events/competitions which the investment banks hold? Yeah it's usually at USYD and UNSW only. Not UTS, because they rather focus on getting graduates from Go8. In addition you're at much better steed to go to UNSW/USYD as their commerce clubs are much bigger and there is more relevant clubs there then at UTS, which gives alot more extra-circculars you can do, networking chances and also competitions.

They don't mention it, but they certainly have preferences.

 

[Utseconfin]

Yes I do, because i work full-time in the commerce industry and networked with many people who work at IBs so I think i know a bit about what I'm talking about.Real life experience? You work at an IB? No cause then you wouldn't be so bored as to stumble on a student forum. Common sense...right so basically the facts and statistics which links back to majority of grads being USYD/UNSW compared to UTS and lastly economic theory which has absolutely nothing to do with this. Link me half a dozen people that graduated from UTS (that aren't on the B.Accounting scholarship(even then)) which have an investment banker position. You'll be hard pressed to find maybe one or two at most, reality is they much rather take a graduate from UNSW/USYD. Further evidence? You see all those seminars/events/competitions which the investment banks hold? Yeah it's usually at USYD and UNSW only. Not UTS, because they rather focus on getting graduates from Go8. In addition you're at much better steed to go to UNSW/USYD as their commerce clubs are much bigger and there is more relevant clubs there then at UTS, which gives alot more extra-circculars you can do, networking chances and also competitions.

They don't mention it, but they certainly have preferences.

LOL at your networking. No one cares about first year grads in cadet programs. Your post reeks of endogeneity bias (do they teach you this at full-time work in the 'commerce industry'?). People at UNSW don't get jobs because they go to UNSW, they get jobs because on average they are the more motivated students. Economic theory tells me markets are efficient and talent gets sorted accordingly. As such, why would a company care which uni you come from? All they care about is that you're talented enough. You're correct that those seminars are held in UNSW/USYD, but that doesn't indicate what you think it does. Why would a company waste its time and resources advertising to kids in UTS who 'on average' are weaker than UNSW/USYD kids? The crux of the matter is this, 'on average' UNSW and USYD have better students. That is why 'on average' you see more unsw/usyd grads in IBs. Does this mean UTS kids won't get jobs in IB? Absolutely not. If you are talented enough, you will get an IB job if you want. Of course weak students could attend unsw to signal to IB's but they will be caught out in the process. The only advantage unsw/usyd will have is that you will interact with kids who are 'on average' better and more motivated students.
Ultimately, it is your own talent, motivation and drive which will land you a job.

 

[Chronost]

LOL at your networking. No one cares about first year grads in cadet programs. Your post reeks of endogeneity bias (do they teach you this at full-time work in the 'commerce industry'?). People at UNSW don't get jobs because they go to UNSW, they get jobs because on average they are the more motivated students. Economic theory tells me markets are efficient and talent gets sorted accordingly. As such, why would a company care which uni you come from? All they care about is that you're talented enough. You're correct that those seminars are held in UNSW/USYD, but that doesn't indicate what you think it does. Why would a company waste its time and resources advertising to kids in UTS who 'on average' are weaker than UNSW/USYD kids? The crux of the matter is this, 'on average' UNSW and USYD have better students. That is why 'on average' you see more unsw/usyd grads in IBs. Does this mean UTS kids won't get jobs in IB? Absolutely not. If you are talented enough, you will get an IB job if you want. Of course weak students could attend unsw to signal to IB's but they will be caught out in the process. The only advantage unsw/usyd will have is that you will interact with kids who are 'on average' better and more motivated students.
Ultimately, it is your own talent, motivation and drive which will land you a job.

Yes no-ones cares but I still meet the people employed from an IB freqently, so my knowledge is quite fine. Wow and wheres your proof to back up that they're more "motivated"?(saying they get the job more on average doesn't mean they're more motivated, plenty are motivated but cannot find the resources to help them at UTS, whilst it's literally everywhere at UNSW) There is just as many students getting HD in comm at UTS (even if a little less, the amount of people at USYD/UNSW getting the job compared to UTS doesnt compare) as there is at USYD/UNSW, the difference is all the resources are at UNSW/USYD and thus bias towards UNSW/USYD. It's not on average, its literally 85-90% Go8 Uni's with UTS being an exception rather then the rule. Still waiting for you to link me two UTS student who are investment bankers, cause i can definitely link at least 10 for every UTS student you link. If you think talent,motivation and drive will land you the job..alright Mr 3rd year student,especially an at I.B interview level where literally everyone has that and differentiation becomes harder (thus the first thing you do is cut non-Go8 uni kids)


You're pretty much backing my point up anyways that it's better to go to UNSW/USYD, UTS has nothing better then UNSW/USYD if you want to land a job at an I.B.

 

[Utseconfin]

Yes no-ones cares but I still meet the people employed from an IB freqently, so my knowledge is quite fine. Wow and wheres your proof to back up that they're more "motivated"?(saying they get the job more on average doesn't mean they're more motivated, plenty are motivated but cannot find the resources to help them at UTS, whilst it's literally everywhere at UNSW) There is just as many students getting HD in comm at UTS (even if a little less, the amount of people at USYD/UNSW getting the job compared to UTS doesnt compare) as there is at USYD/UNSW, the difference is all the resources are at UNSW/USYD and thus bias towards UNSW/USYD. It's not on average, its literally 85-90% Go8 Uni's with UTS being an exception rather then the rule. Still waiting for you to link me two UTS student who are investment bankers, cause i can definitely link at least 10 for every UTS student you link. If you think talent,motivation and drive will land you the job..alright Mr 3rd year student,especially an at I.B interview level where literally everyone has that and differentiation becomes harder (thus the first thing you do is cut non-Go8 uni kids)

I don't think you understand what 'on average' means. You're right in saying that unsw/usyd kids have access to more resources but that detracts from your central thesis that companies are biased towards unsw/usyd grads. Your failure to acknowledge the endogeneity bias in your argument is convincing you to take a position which is false. So i will explain it one last time. Students who go to unsw/usyd are 'on average' (by which i mean, 'all else being equal') more talented/smarter/motivated (however you want to put it) than the average UTS grad. Notice the use of 'average'. If you had a distribution of talent between both uts and unsw grads, the distribution would be shifted to the right for unsw grads. What does this mean? It means that there will be students in the tail of the UTS distribution which will be of higher ability than unsw grads. The probability of this however, is quite low. How do i know this? Because you just argued it for me when you claimed your somewhat dubious statistic of '85-90%.'
Now to the OP
1. You do not know if you want to get into IB, i assure you.
2. Go to uni's and pick the uni you feel most comfortable with
3. Work hard

 

[Chronost]

I don't think you understand what 'on average' means. You're right in saying that unsw/usyd kids have access to more resources but that detracts from your central thesis that companies are biased towards unsw/usyd grads. Your failure to acknowledge the endogeneity bias in your argument is convincing you to take a position which is false. So i will explain it one last time. Students who go to unsw/usyd are 'on average' (by which i mean, 'all else being equal') more talented/smarter/motivated (however you want to put it) than the average UTS grad. Notice the use of 'average'. If you had a distribution of talent between both uts and unsw grads, the distribution would be shifted to the right for unsw grads. What does this mean? It means that there will be students in the tail of the UTS distribution which will be of higher ability than unsw grads. The probability of this however, is quite low. How do i know this? Because you just argued it for me when you claimed your somewhat dubious statistic of '85-90%.'
Now to the OP
1. You do not know if you want to get into IB, i assure you.
2. Go to uni's and pick the uni you feel most comfortable with
3. Work hard

You still dont have any evidence to back up they're more talented/smarter/motivated, you're just saying as if it's a fact, which it isn't. What are you basing it off? What exactly do you mean in terms of talent that is relevant to getting a position in I.B? Please be more specific, such a vague statement. I argued 85-90% of people getting an investment banker positon are go8 i never mentioned it towards them having more "talent" . Again you ignored my request at linking UTS investment bankers, and again you ignored the fact that the point which I'm mentioning that UNSW/USYD is also a much better uni to go to for I.B, you're just affirming my position by not saying anything negative about them and putting down UTS.

 

[Utseconfin]

You still dont have any evidence to back up they're more talented/smarter/motivated, you're just saying as if it's a fact, which it isn't. What are you basing it off? What exactly do you mean in terms of talent that is relevant to getting a position in I.B? Please be more specific, such a vague statement. I argued 85-90% of people getting an investment banker positon are go8 i never mentioned it towards them having more "talent" . Again you ignored my request at linking UTS investment bankers, and again you ignored the fact that the point which I'm mentioning that UNSW/USYD is also a much better uni to go to for I.B, you're just affirming my position by not saying anything negative about them and putting down UTS.

lols. I've answered all your questions. The fact that you fail to understand them is no fault of mine. So let me break it down to the simplest possible argument.

What I believe: USYD/UNSW grads have a higher 'ability' and thus get more IB jobs
What you believe: Companies throw UTS applications in the bin because....UTS?

 

[Chronost]

lols. I've answered all your questions. The fact that you fail to understand them is no fault of mine. So let me break it down to the simplest possible argument.

What I believe: USYD/UNSW grads have a higher 'ability' and thus get more IB jobs
What you believe: Companies throw UTS applications in the bin because....UTS?

haha great now you ignored my whole post, congratulations.

So....what you believe is essentially not going against what im mentioning about USYD/UNSW so why argue in the first place?

Never mentioned that? I mentioned preference, the closest i mentioned is cutting non-Go8 when they have to search for a differentiation(meaning similar ECs,Marks,internships etc..)


The minute you said "There is no need for a hd average lols" is the minute you lost any credit you had to say anything about getting a grad position for an investment banker role.

 

[Utseconfin]

haha great now you ignored my whole post, congratulations.

So....what you believe is essentially not going against what im mentioning about USYD/UNSW so why argue in the first place?

Never mentioned that? I mentioned preference, the closest i mentioned is cutting non-Go8 when they have to search for a differentiation(meaning similar ECs,Marks,internships etc..)


The minute you said "There is no need for a hd average lols" is the minute you lost any credit you had to say anything about getting a grad position for an investment banker role.

lol, just lol at auditors.

To OP,
1. Your university does not make a difference
2. Whether you have the required ability specific to IB (whatever that may be) will (mainly) determine your chances
3. Work hard

 

[builder2818]

"Because I work full time in commerce industry". I like that comment. Commerce being a VERY broad term that could relate to anything. But you network so you're on the right path to your career dreams. I am so sick of all these posts people put here and on whirlpool about what they think you need to get into IB (or any other career for that matter), the weighting of them are even more stand outish if you have a friend who's been there, done that. All you kids just out of high school turning up to your career events in your oversized Lowes suits and ugly shoes stand out like fools smelling of the shlt that lingers on your nose from all the arse sniffing you do. It doesn't matter what uni you go to - if you are a ball bag or fresh off the boat and can't speak English properly, you are not going to get a job - period.

If you can't speak at an interview or answer behavioural and analytical questions, you won't get a job.

All this talk of extra-curricular too, it makes all you young people try and join every club at uni or note you are team leader to 14 year olds flipping burgers at Macca's on your CV - how is this impressive?

The sad thing about youth today is they think they will make a mint straight out of uni. Or they expect the top jobs straight out of uni. What happened to working hard to get to where you want to go? These big companies don't even waste their time on a lot of you by just weeding all the dumb asses out through their online testing. So I wouldn't worry about what uni you go to.

I don't know if I am lucky or prove most people wrong - I used to build high rise apartments before making a career change to finance 4 years ago. I got a job in a call centre earning $48,000 p.a which I was promoted after 8 months to a better job. I was made redundant June (with a fat tax free package) this year and walked into a job one week later with the biggest asset management company in the world as a trade analyst only to quit after 5 months because I am back working at my old company in an awesome role alongside someone who has a degree, finished a grad program at this company and is a Level 3 CFA candidate, and here's me, working alongside with half a UTS business degree with 2.5 years left. Glad i'm not doing any sucky grad program learning about marketing and HR and the likes which I am not interested in (just like having to do at uni).