Take undergraduate medicine or aim for postgraduate? (2 Viewers)

[vatafix]

I’m in a bit of an uncertain situation and confused state of mind. I’ve finished 2 out of 3 years of a science degree and I received a bonded offer to University of Newcastle. As happy as I am to get in (and would’ve jumped at this opportunity last year), I’m more interested in going to USYD postgraduate medicine. The following are the reasons I’ve come up with for either option.

Reasons for Newcastle:
- I get to do the degree I want (i.e. medicine, not science) right now and not later
- The experience of living away from home and the life experiences and lessons that come with that
- Opportunity to meet new people, make new friends
- Don’t have to study for GAMSAT and go through the related stresses
- I’ve heard the USYD medicine course has a greater anatomy focus than other unis which I’ve been told is unnecessary and not something I’m a fan of or looking forward to

Reasons for Sydney:
- Financially cheaper. My parents would be funding me going to Newcastle though they don’t seem to bothered by it, in fact, they’d prefer I go to Newcastle now instead of deferring (i.e. potentially finishing medicine a year later if I don’t get postgraduate)
- Potentially get into USYD medicine and be with friends
- Potentially do med at a more prestigious university, i.e. USYD, and in theory be with a more capable cohort of students (or would I be wrong in saying that?)
- Potentially get an unbonded place at some uni
- Could do TSP (USYD program) and get some papers published (I’ve heard this is important when applying to the increasingly competitive specialisation places, thoughts?)
- Could do a Masters of Public Health alongside my med degree at USYD, or possibly at Newcastle once I’ve completed my science degree (if I don’t get USYD med)

I would like to hear your opinions on this list and if you have anything to add or any advice to give. (hopefully the lists made sense)

Also, would I have any issuing with deferring or is it a simple process? If I can’t defer, I’d rather just take it than risk never getting into medicine.

Last thing I wanted to ask was if there was really any difference between med students graduating from undergraduate vs graduate med programs (other than maturity which seems linked more to age than the courses themselves).

 

[Schmeag]

Observations re: undergraduate vs postgraduate:
- having an extra degree under your belt counts for career pathway
- any research that might come with doing another degree will count
- if the undergraduate degree is related to the specialisation you want to do, it may help (radiography and radiology, paramedicine and critical care)
- the more work experience in your undergraduate degree you have, the more capable you seem

From a work perspective, I find the difference slim between undergraduates and postgraduates who have transitioned directly from an undergraduate course. Without knowing your situation fully, I would go for Newscastle, unless you feel confident about your other options. However, I am not one who would turn down an opportunity due to prestige. Anyway - moving out of home FTW!

I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

 

[Medman]

There's no point having an undergraduate degree unless it will give you plenty more research opportunities but even then I would just do research during your medicine degree.

GAMSAT is insanely hard. Harder than UMAT.

Interview at USYD is not easy either.

I would pick Newcastle if medicine is what you want.

 

[vikavish]

Pick Newcastle medicine.

Go to USYD and be with friends? more prestigious university? Dont think like that

 

[vatafix]

Thanks guys for your responses.

Go to USYD and be with friends? more prestigious university? Dont think like that

Agree on the prestige point but I think it would be an advantage to complete medicine with friends - I wasn't referring to friends in other courses in USYD who I'd probably see as often as I would if I was at Newcastle.

Anyway - moving out of home FTW!

I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

Agreed, this is why I originally wanted JMP straight out of school (but alas ACER thought I didn't have enough empathy to get over 50 in S2 , was very disappointed), and is actually a major reason for me wanting to take the offer.

Thanks

There's no point having an undergraduate degree unless it will give you plenty more research opportunities but even then I would just do research during your medicine degree.

GAMSAT is insanely hard. Harder than UMAT.

Interview at USYD is not easy either.

I would pick Newcastle if medicine is what you want.

I've talked to people since posting and from my understanding, the TSP is some research experience but you're unlikely to get a published paper. Also, I'm not even sure I'll be allowed in since they seem to have increased the WAM cutoff. So I'd list this as a very minor to stay at USYD.

Having done GAMSAT last year, I definitely agree that it's significantly harder (mentally and physically) than the UMAT which is why I'm not looking forward to studying for it and sitting it again. However I ended up doing quite well in it (better than my UMAT percentiles) so I'm very likely to get a USYD interview offer (assuming no large jump in cutoffs) and definitely get a GEMSAS interview. The interview is of course a hurdle that would need to be overcome.

Also, question regarding doing a masters of public health. Is there much point of me completing this? Would it help when I'm applying for specialisations? Right now I'm leaning towards completing my bachelor of science and then completing this part-time online (I can take up to 6 years to complete it) at the same time as my med degree, whether that be at Newcastle or at USYD. If there is not much point of me completing it, I'd lean towards accepting the offer.

Final question: JMP is switching to MD in 2016 (pending approval), is there any difference later on whether I've graduated with a BMed vs an MD. From what I've read and been told, there is no difference for doctors but would there be any difference if I wanted a job in the health-field but not as a doctor (hope I've worded that correctly)?

 

[Medman]

Unless you're published or presenting (there are cutoffs for speciality applications) at a conference doing research probably won't mean much at this stage.

Masters are essential for specialisation now in urban areas. Not sure about regional or rural areas but big centres like Orange might be the same story. There's plenty of masters out there so choose a masters that will help you into the specialty of interest. Doing a masters of surgery then deciding to go become a physician won't help you much etc.

If you want to practice in Australia BMED and MD makes no difference. With a MD you might have had the opportunity to make publication albeit slightly.

 

[vatafix]

Thanks medman and everyone for your replies

After thinking about it, I ended up accepting the offer (and as someone I talked to today said, if you're having such a hard time deciding between the two, there's probably not much difference). Will be a massive relief to not have to do the GAMSAT again! And exciting to move out and start medicine!

 

[thedemonpk3r]

Hey guys, i have the same future motive, perhaps one of you could help me out... I wanna end up transferring from B of Sci at Usyd to either med at UWS or Newcastle while still in perhaps undergrad after two or so years. How can i go about doing this to recieve an offer like Vatafix Did? What GPA am i supposedly looking at, with also umat percentile cut off? What majors should i take?

 

[bangladesh]

Hey guys, i have the same future motive, perhaps one of you could help me out... I wanna end up transferring from B of Sci at Usyd to either med at UWS or Newcastle while still in perhaps undergrad after two or so years. How can i go about doing this to recieve an offer like Vatafix Did? What GPA am i supposedly looking at, with also umat percentile cut off? What majors should i take?

maintain high gpa, ace umat, ace interview and you'll get in

 

[Medman]

Hey guys, i have the same future motive, perhaps one of you could help me out... I wanna end up transferring from B of Sci at Usyd to either med at UWS or Newcastle while still in perhaps undergrad after two or so years. How can i go about doing this to recieve an offer like Vatafix Did? What GPA am i supposedly looking at, with also umat percentile cut off? What majors should i take?

Take majors that are easy so you'll get a high GPA. I.e instead of just normal maths take maths foundations. I would probably aim at 6.5+ GPA but I think for UWS and Newcastle you'll be able to get in with a lower GPA.

 

[madijd]

Did you redo the UMAT in your 2nd year to get an offer at Newcastle?

Im looking to do the same thing but I haven't done the UMAT so I will need to do it this year (1st year uni).

 

[strawberrye]

I really don't think there is a concept of 'more prestigious' uni to do med in. Medicine is one of those courses which is viewed equally high regardless of what uni you get into because of its strict entry requirements and limited positions. Just because the university is younger doesn't mean it is less 'prestigious' for med. Ultimately, to do well in med, or indeed any uni course, you shouldn't really rely on having a more competitive cohort in pushing you along, you should instead aspire to push yourself in the first place. This mentality of independent motivation and self-learning is critical to academic success, as you probably may have realised by now. I am not saying you are relying on a competitive cohort to push yourself to study, but I am warning you of the potential shortfalls/danger of thinking along such a path. Best wishes for your decision

 

[thedemonpk3r]

Medman, i have done up to 4 unit maths in hsc, ive pciked maths 1001,1002,1003 and 1004 for first year, which is basically for people with just 3 unit level maths background as advised on usyds website... ive also looked up that having a bit harder maths will give you a better gpa?? correct me if im wrong?

 

[RishBonjour99]

I’m in a bit of an uncertain situation and confused state of mind. I’ve finished 2 out of 3 years of a science degree and I received a bonded offer to University of Newcastle. As happy as I am to get in (and would’ve jumped at this opportunity last year), I’m more interested in going to USYD postgraduate medicine. The following are the reasons I’ve come up with for either option.

Reasons for Newcastle:
- I get to do the degree I want (i.e. medicine, not science) right now and not later
- The experience of living away from home and the life experiences and lessons that come with that
- Opportunity to meet new people, make new friends
- Don’t have to study for GAMSAT and go through the related stresses
- I’ve heard the USYD medicine course has a greater anatomy focus than other unis which I’ve been told is unnecessary and not something I’m a fan of or looking forward to

Reasons for Sydney:
- Financially cheaper. My parents would be funding me going to Newcastle though they don’t seem to bothered by it, in fact, they’d prefer I go to Newcastle now instead of deferring (i.e. potentially finishing medicine a year later if I don’t get postgraduate)
- Potentially get into USYD medicine and be with friends
- Potentially do med at a more prestigious university, i.e. USYD, and in theory be with a more capable cohort of students (or would I be wrong in saying that?)
- Potentially get an unbonded place at some uni
- Could do TSP (USYD program) and get some papers published (I’ve heard this is important when applying to the increasingly competitive specialisation places, thoughts?)
- Could do a Masters of Public Health alongside my med degree at USYD, or possibly at Newcastle once I’ve completed my science degree (if I don’t get USYD med)

I would like to hear your opinions on this list and if you have anything to add or any advice to give. (hopefully the lists made sense)

Also, would I have any issuing with deferring or is it a simple process? If I can’t defer, I’d rather just take it than risk never getting into medicine.

Last thing I wanted to ask was if there was really any difference between med students graduating from undergraduate vs graduate med programs (other than maturity which seems linked more to age than the courses themselves).

Congrats on your decision!!!

This is most likely to be true. You're cohort in usyd MD will generally be 'brighter'. Some people I know who entered as undergrads have already published papers as 3rd years. But it doesn't really matter that much for med (unless you plan on studying overseas later - I assume Go8 is then preferable).

 

[vatafix]

Hey guys, i have the same future motive, perhaps one of you could help me out... I wanna end up transferring from B of Sci at Usyd to either med at UWS or Newcastle while still in perhaps undergrad after two or so years. How can i go about doing this to recieve an offer like Vatafix Did? What GPA am i supposedly looking at, with also umat percentile cut off? What majors should i take?

Did you redo the UMAT in your 2nd year to get an offer at Newcastle?

Im looking to do the same thing but I haven't done the UMAT so I will need to do it this year (1st year uni).

Yes I redid the UMAT last year (during 2nd year of my degree),

Do the UMAT. For JMP/Newcastle/New England, get S1 score of 60+ and 50+ in section 2 and 3, then do the interview. For UWS, it's a bit unclear now but 3rd section WAS weighted half, have a look around at the forum, it's been discussed here and on www.medstudentsonline.com.au. If you live in GWS, cutoff is a bit lower.
GPA-wise, JMP requires 4.7 GPA for an incomplete degree, 4.0 GPA for complete, and UWS is outlined here: http://www.uws.edu.au/medicine/som/applying_to_medicine/mbbs and is different for GWS and non-GWS applicants. Both of them are just cut-offs, they don't care how high it is. For UWS, if your ATAR meets the cutoff, they don't look at GPA.

Looking at majors, just do what you end up doing well in during your first year and don't mind studying/are interested in. Chem gives out more Ds and HDs than other subjects which seem to mostly follow the old scaled bell-curve so in theory higher chance of getting good grades. Of course don't do it if you don't enjoy chem at all or if you got poor marks in first year. Same goes for all subjects.

Medman, i have done up to 4 unit maths in hsc, ive pciked maths 1001,1002,1003 and 1004 for first year, which is basically for people with just 3 unit level maths background as advised on usyds website... ive also looked up that having a bit harder maths will give you a better gpa?? correct me if im wrong?

Consider doing the fundamental level units of these subjects unless you might do 2nd year maths, and there are many med hopefuls who do. In fact, if you want to do 2nd year equivalent of any subject, chose normal or advanced level of the first year, not fundamental. Now that there is no longer scaling at USYD, there is less reason to do the advanced versions of subjects, so no harder maths will not give you a better GPA, possibly the opposite. Warning: there is the chance of getting lazy, complacent and/or bored by doing the easier subjects.

Congrats on your decision!!!

This is most likely to be true. You're cohort in usyd MD will generally be 'brighter'. Some people I know who entered as undergrads have already published papers as 3rd years. But it doesn't really matter that much for med (unless you plan on studying overseas later - I assume Go8 is then preferable).

Thanks

 

[thedemonpk3r]

Yes I redid the UMAT last year (during 2nd year of my degree),

Do the UMAT. For JMP/Newcastle/New England, get S1 score of 60+ and 50+ in section 2 and 3, then do the interview. For UWS, it's a bit unclear now but 3rd section WAS weighted half, have a look around at the forum, it's been discussed here and on www.medstudentsonline.com.au. If you live in GWS, cutoff is a bit lower.
GPA-wise, JMP requires 4.7 GPA for an incomplete degree, 4.0 GPA for complete, and UWS is outlined here: http://www.uws.edu.au/medicine/som/applying_to_medicine/mbbs and is different for GWS and non-GWS applicants. Both of them are just cut-offs, they don't care how high it is. For UWS, if your ATAR meets the cutoff, they don't look at GPA.

Looking at majors, just do what you end up doing well in during your first year and don't mind studying/are interested in. Chem gives out more Ds and HDs than other subjects which seem to mostly follow the old scaled bell-curve so in theory higher chance of getting good grades. Of course don't do it if you don't enjoy chem at all or if you got poor marks in first year. Same goes for all subjects.



Consider doing the fundamental level units of these subjects unless you might do 2nd year maths, and there are many med hopefuls who do. In fact, if you want to do 2nd year equivalent of any subject, chose normal or advanced level of the first year, not fundamental. Now that there is no longer scaling at USYD, there is less reason to do the advanced versions of subjects, so no harder maths will not give you a better GPA, possibly the opposite. Warning: there is the chance of getting lazy, complacent and/or bored by doing the easier subjects.



Thanks

Vatafix, you have completely confuse me now!!! hahahah!! as ive said before, i am taking maths 1001, 102, 1003 and 1004 and i come from a background of 4 unit maths in which ive done very well in.. im not too sure at this point in time if i am to take on further units of math in second or third years.... although i am quiet certain that i can maintain very good marks in the units of maths ive picked, you do put forth a good point... what do you reckon i should do?? also do you think its still possible to maintain a good gpa with higher math units?

 

[vatafix]

Vatafix, you have completely confuse me now!!! hahahah!! as ive said before, i am taking maths 1001, 102, 1003 and 1004 and i come from a background of 4 unit maths in which ive done very well in.. im not too sure at this point in time if i am to take on further units of math in second or third years.... although i am quiet certain that i can maintain very good marks in the units of maths ive picked, you do put forth a good point... what do you reckon i should do?? also do you think its still possible to maintain a good gpa with higher math units?

Apologies for any confusion but I prefer to give recommendations and let others decide. Firstly, you'll need math1005/1015/1905 (statistics) for some 2nd year subjects such as physiology so remember to include that. If you think there is any realistic chance of you doing maths in 2nd year, you need normal or adv (not fundamental, i.e the 101X subjects). So go with 1001, 1002, 1003 and 1005. I have little doubt you can do well in these, especially with a 4U background. Almost everything in 1003 was from 4U. Your ability to maintain a good gpa with higher math units same with any subject depends on how much you enjoy maths, how motivated you are to do it and how good you are at maths.

Any further Qs about your position are probably best discussed via pm instead of on this thread to avoid it going off-topic.

 

[Medman]

Vatafix, you have completely confuse me now!!! hahahah!! as ive said before, i am taking maths 1001, 102, 1003 and 1004 and i come from a background of 4 unit maths in which ive done very well in.. im not too sure at this point in time if i am to take on further units of math in second or third years.... although i am quiet certain that i can maintain very good marks in the units of maths ive picked, you do put forth a good point... what do you reckon i should do?? also do you think its still possible to maintain a good gpa with higher math units?

Doing 4 unit maths does not mean you will do well in those maths subjects you picked. Statistics was hard as crap, I remember completing 1/3 of the final exam and still somehow getting a credit. Unless you want to major in maths there is no point in picking normal or advanced maths. If you want a good GPA for medicine I would definitely pick fundamentals unless you want a challenge.

 

[thedemonpk3r]

Doing 4 unit maths does not mean you will do well in those maths subjects you picked. Statistics was hard as crap, I remember completing 1/3 of the final exam and still somehow getting a credit. Unless you want to major in maths there is no point in picking normal or advanced maths. If you want a good GPA for medicine I would definitely pick fundamentals unless you want a challenge.

Well do I have to do all four maths units from the fundamental section. Can't I do two from normal and two units from fundamentals if I'm still up for somewhat of a challenge

 

[vatafix]

Yes you can and like medman, I'd also recommend doing biostatistics (math1015) instead of math1005. Stats is a pain.