University of Sydney Medicine undergraduate (2 Viewers)

[Glittery Chicken]

Hey guys I wanted to ask if I have to sit for ucat if I want to do medicine at usyd. and is it a must to get a 99.95 to get in or is there a certain range which u can get in between? Thanks

 

[dasfas]

You need 99.95 ATAR, no exceptions unless applying through the E12 scheme, whereby it's 99.5. No UCAT is required, it's purely ATAR.

 

[Glittery Chicken]

You need 99.95 ATAR, no exceptions unless applying through the E12 scheme, whereby it's 99.5. No UCAT is required, it's purely ATAR.

So there’s no assignment or interview and just your ATAR? So if I get 99.95 and have usyd as my first preference it’s a straight entry?

 

[Qeru]

So there’s no assignment or interview and just your ATAR? So if I get 99.95 and have usyd as my first preference it’s a straight entry?

No there is still an interview just no ucat.

 

[Beyblader]

if you need 99.95 how do they get enough students to fill the course considering only a small number of people actually get 99.95 and not all of them want to do med?

 

[totally_screwed]

if you need 99.95 how do they get enough students to fill the course considering only a small number of people actually get 99.95 and not all of them want to do med?

E12 scheme lowers the atar requirement to 99.5 which makes the pool of med applicants a lot bigger

 

[Vaibhav123456]

Most people apply as a graduate, so they complete the GAMSAT instead. Meaning that, an atar is not required, and you apply after completing any undergraduate course.

 

[edds7575]

if you need 99.95 how do they get enough students to fill the course considering only a small number of people actually get 99.95 and not all of them want to do med?

The course only has 30 places. NSW alone has 48 people who get 99.95, so counting people from all over Australia, there's way more than enough students to fill the course.

 

[Eagle Mum]

if you need 99.95 how do they get enough students to fill the course considering only a small number of people actually get 99.95 and not all of them want to do med?

It’s not a specific course tailored just for students who achieve an ATAR of 99.95. Those who achieve that ATAR can accept a guaranteed place in the postgrad course but they still have to complete an undergrad degree, just like others who become their med ‘classmates’ by getting in with their GPA, GAMSAT & interview.

 

[Beyblader]

It’s not a specific course tailored just for students who achieve an ATAR of 99.95. Those who achieve that ATAR can accept a guaranteed place in the postgrad course but they still have to complete an undergrad degree, just like others who become their med ‘classmates’ by getting in with their GPA, GAMSAT & interview.

what? I thought the whole point of getting 99.95 was to get into Usyd Med as an undergraduate and avoid needing to do a degree beforehand thus saving a few years- is that wrong? If so it seems like a total waste of time/life to get 99.95?

 

[Beyblader]

The course only has 30 places. NSW alone has 48 people who get 99.95, so counting people from all over Australia, there's way more than enough students to fill the course.

So you’re saying there’s a Med class that has a group of 30 kids that scored 99.95? There must be some crazy competition and intellect in that class.

is there any data available on what ultimately happens to all these 99.95 scorers ie what specialties do they end up doing and how do they perform in medicine Exams compared to there lower scoring postgraduate colleagues?

 

[Eagle Mum]

what? I thought the whole point of getting 99.95 was to get into Usyd Med as an undergraduate and avoid needing to do a degree beforehand thus saving a few years- is that wrong? If so it seems like a total waste of time/life to get 99.95?

It’s a double degree - Bachelor of Science or Bachelor of Arts/Doctor of Medicine. The BSc/BA is an undergrad course and the MD is the same postgrad course as for anyone else. It’s still seven years of university studies. The difference is not having to compete with the thousands of applicants who have to sit the GAMSAT. It would be interesting to know if these students also apply to other med schools which offer undergrad med courses, how many get offered places at other med schools (since others use UMAT/UCAT & selection interviews) and whether they choose a shorter undergrad med course over this double degree.
UAC link - https://www.uac.edu.au/undergraduate/courses/usyd/513715.shtml

ETA: These students would be automatically eligible for the Dalyell Scholars program for their undergrad degree. If it’s like its predecessor, Science Talented Students course, students can replace forty percent of the usual coursework subjects with research of their choice, so are able to do interesting research and start publishing research papers as an undergraduate.

 

[quickoats]

is there any data available on what ultimately happens to all these 99.95 scorers ie what specialties do they end up doing and how do they perform in medicine Exams compared to there lower scoring postgraduate colleagues?

Im sure it’s a mixed bag. It's definitely NOT the case that the 99.95ers all become neurosurgeons etc and the rest of the grad cohort become GPs. Specialty can be just personal preference not just academic - imo i think GP is one of the most elusive professions (imagine pulling 300k as a 75 year old!) just cos longevity and work-life balance. Written exams are a different story - more rote learning so it suits whoever is disciplined and who isn't there to just pass (which is fine in med tbh). Prac exams probably zero difference cos everyone starts from scratch (there might be dentists or podiatrists etc in the grad cohort who would have better hand skills).

The whole point of grad entry degrees is that is makes for "better" students from a whole variety of walks of life, professions, and ages. grad entry probably makes for students who want to be doctors rather than 17 year olds who don't want to "waste" their marks. To be fair I think undergrad does a pretty good job of screening with UCAT and interviews - I reckon dentistry is the one they need to screen better.

I feel like @idkkdi might have an opinion on this.

It’s a double degree - Bachelor of Science or Bachelor of Arts/Doctor of Medicine. The BSc/BA is an undergrad course and the MD is the same postgrad course as for anyone else. It’s still seven years of university studies. The difference is not having to compete with the thousands of applicants who have to sit the GAMSAT. It would be interesting to know if these students also apply to other med schools which offer undergrad med courses, how many get offered places at other med schools (since others use UMAT/UCAT & selection interviews) and whether they choose a shorter undergrad med course over this double degree.
UAC link - https://www.uac.edu.au/undergraduate/courses/usyd/513715.shtml

ETA: These students would be automatically eligible for the Dalyell Scholars program for their undergrad degree. If it’s like its predecessor, Science Talented Students course, students can replace forty percent of the usual coursework subjects with research of their choice, so are able to do interesting research and start publishing research papers as an undergraduate.

I have heard of people getting multiple offers but choosing USyd since it implies they got 99.95... I was considering Dalyell last year but it didn't seem too extensive - just some extra projects (not 40%) and some extra networking events. Dalyell is anyone who got 98+ so it's not super stringent - I assume the talented student thing is invite only.

 

[Beyblader]

It’s a double degree - Bachelor of Science or Bachelor of Arts/Doctor of Medicine. The BSc/BA is an undergrad course and the MD is the same postgrad course as for anyone else. It’s still seven years of university studies. The difference is not having to compete with the thousands of applicants who have to sit the GAMSAT. It would be interesting to know if these students also apply to other med schools which offer undergrad med courses, how many get offered places at other med schools (since others use UMAT/UCAT & selection interviews) and whether they choose a shorter undergrad med course over this double degree.
UAC link - https://www.uac.edu.au/undergraduate/courses/usyd/513715.shtml

ETA: These students would be automatically eligible for the Dalyell Scholars program for their undergrad degree. If it’s like its predecessor, Science Talented Students course, students can replace forty percent of the usual coursework subjects with research of their choice, so are able to do interesting research and start publishing research papers as an undergraduate.

wow - so there’s actually no benefit of getting 99.95 apart from not having to compete for the Med spot later on??

presumably the kids that are good enough to get 99.95 would easily have gotten into Med later on anyway if haven’t got 99.95

 

[Qeru]

wow - so there’s actually no benefit of getting 99.95 apart from not having to compete for the Med spot later on??

presumably the kids that are good enough to get 99.95 would easily have gotten into Med later on anyway if haven’t got 99.95

Your forgetting scholarships for ANY degree like scientia, AAA etc which is another reason to get a .95. Also you seem to have a misconception that 99.95 are some sort of God like geniuses. In reality they simply studied hard and even had a bit of luck in getting there. Of course it's no easy feat but you are blowing it way out of proportion.

 

[edds7575]

wow - so there’s actually no benefit of getting 99.95 apart from not having to compete for the Med spot later on??

presumably the kids that are good enough to get 99.95 would easily have gotten into Med later on anyway if haven’t got 99.95

There's actually a lot of benefit to getting into this pathway, I think your downplaying provisional medicine quite a bit. Provisional entry places are just as valid as undergraduate places, in that you can get into medicine straight after high school, it's just that you start medicine at different points. With the graduate entry route, you have to do an undergraduate degree without any certainty of getting into medicine later on, and then go through the GAMSAT. Also, simply getting 99.95 doesn't mean that they can easily get into med later on. The combination of GPA and GAMSAT requires a different skillset to ATAR and UCAT, and with how competitive getting into med is in general, obviously someone would rather take a provisional spot than try to get in through graduate entry.

 

[Beyblader]

Also you seem to have a misconception that 99.95 are some sort of God like geniuses. In reality they simply studied hard and even had a bit of luck in getting there. Of course it's no easy feat but you are blowing it way out of proportion.

Yes you are right I do have a concept of 99.95's as being extraordinary and I don't neccessarily agree that I'm blowing it out of proportion - the relevant proportion being that they are the 1 in 1200 to 1 in 1400 people who beat so many others trying extremely hard to attain the same goal. They are at the very extreme end of the bell curve so I do think they are near genius level.

I've never personally knowingly met one of these people so I'm happy to be corrected if wrong

I imagine most of them to be highly intelligent, highly tutored, lacking in social skills/life experiences, naturally gifted at maths, having amazing drive and focus.
Are you implying that most of them are just fairly intelligent kids that worked hard and got lucky?

 

[Beyblader]

The combination of GPA and GAMSAT requires a different skillset to ATAR and UCAT

what are the differences in skillset between the 2 approaches?
Surely the exceptional focus/determination/intelligience of someone capable of 99.95 would transfer over enough to do well in both?

 

[Beyblader]

Prac exams probably zero difference cos everyone starts from scratch (there might be dentists or podiatrists etc in the grad cohort who would have better hand skills).

I would've thought the 99.95ers would be worse at practical exams and surgery in general as they probably have worse hand eye coordination, having missed out on sports/computer gaming etc which their lower ATAR scoring peers were engaging in while the 99.95s were at tutoring?
Also, if prac exams involve taking patient histories/presenting cases/other interpersonal communication methods then the 99.95s would do worse as they likely have less developed social skills than the lower scoring ATAR peers

I also wonder if they end up in more academic /university positions and specialties requiring less interpersonal interaction like pathology/haematology

 

[idkkdi]

I would've thought the 99.95ers would be worse at practical exams and surgery in general as they probably have worse hand eye coordination, having missed out on sports/computer gaming etc which their lower ATAR scoring peers were engaging in while the 99.95s were at tutoring?
Also, if prac exams involve taking patient histories/presenting cases/other interpersonal communication methods then the 99.95s would do worse as they likely have less developed social skills than the lower scoring ATAR peers

I also wonder if they end up in more academic /university positions and specialties requiring less interpersonal interaction like pathology/haematology

you forgot that
a student needs a good English score for 99.95 lol.
so that stereotype isn't the truest.

what are the differences in skillset between the 2 approaches?
Surely the exceptional focus/determination/intelligience of someone capable of 99.95 would transfer over enough to do well in both?

i think it would transfer over well enough.
but, usyd undergrad/post combined has a much higher interview pass rate than the interview pass rate for postgrad.
skipping the more rigorous interview process is a benefit of 99.95ing for the undergrad/postgrad combined.