Tables for Science (2 Viewers)

[Samarth shah]

I heard that if you dont rule and close of your table the markers are not allowed to read your table is that true, and for chemistry would you need to close of and rule every ice table?

 

[hiiitsme]

is this true for punnett squares too?

 

[specificagent1]

what??? since when???? shit all my rice tables dont count then

 

[jazz519]

No this is a myth. Why would a student be penalised for a minor formatting issue? The purpose of the exam is to check you understand the content not to be marking people for such a small thing

These are band 5-6 responses for questions to the HSC 2019 Chemistry Exam as determined by the people marking the exam:

https://educationstandards.nsw.edu.au/wps/wcm/connect/4e4f53a4-fe6b-4c67-be06-1efe61dc9153/2019+HSC+-+Chemistry+++-+2019+HSC+-+Chemistry+Section+2+Q21-34+Band+5-6+Sample+1.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=ROOTWORKSPACE-4e4f53a4-fe6b-4c67-be06-1efe61dc9153-nxnY81X

Go to page 25 you can clearly see a table without closed boxes for a RICE table.

 

[specificagent1]

No this is a myth. Why would a student be penalised for a minor formatting issue? The purpose of the exam is to check you understand the content not to be marking people for such a small thing

cause of dick head teachers

 

[jazz519]

cause of dick head teachers

This may happen in an individual school. However the teachers who are hired to mark the exams have to follow very strict guidelines for how they mark things so it is consistent. This is will not be a problem in the actual hsc

 

[YourLocalDumbAss]

I heard that if you dont rule and close of your table the markers are not allowed to read your table is that true, and for chemistry would you need to close of and rule every ice table?

this is what my science teacher has a ptsd on. he always tells us to close our tables

 

[yanujw]

No this is a myth. Why would a student be penalised for a minor formatting issue? The purpose of the exam is to check you understand the content not to be marking people for such a small thing

These are band 5-6 responses for questions to the HSC 2019 Chemistry Exam as determined by the people marking the exam:

https://educationstandards.nsw.edu.au/wps/wcm/connect/4e4f53a4-fe6b-4c67-be06-1efe61dc9153/2019+HSC+-+Chemistry+++-+2019+HSC+-+Chemistry+Section+2+Q21-34+Band+5-6+Sample+1.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=ROOTWORKSPACE-4e4f53a4-fe6b-4c67-be06-1efe61dc9153-nxnY81X

Go to page 25 you can clearly see a table without closed boxes for a RICE table.

Where do they publish examples of Band 5/6 Work? Do you have a link for other subjects' exams?

 

[jazz519]

Where do they publish examples of Band 5/6 Work? Do you have a link?

Not sure sorry. I just have that link for the chemistry because I tutor for the subject and a student sent that to me before

 

[someth1ng]

Not sure sorry. I just have that link for the chemistry because I tutor for the subject and a student sent that to me before

Are they supposed to be full mark answers? The Q26b (3 marks) question about identifying the compound...the student said MS and IR for spectroscopy which is incorrect IMO because MS is not spectroscopy (it's spectrometry).

 

[CM_Tutor]

@someth1ng, when the Board of Studies released sample answers many years ago, the bands were borders. That is, the Band 5/6 examples were on the border of band 5 and band 6. They have, occasionally, also given actual exemplar answers. What I noticed in those cases, where they also gave examples of Band 1/2, Band 2/3, Band 3/4, Band 4/5, and Band 5/6, was that some answers classed in the same border region appeared significantly different in quality to me.

So, these answers may be examples that are classified at high Band 5 or low Band 6 level, or somewhere in between, if they are following the previous practice.

 

[CM_Tutor]

Also, @someth1ng, I suspect that there are plenty of teachers that don't appreciate the distinction between spectroscopy and spectrometry, not to mention their students.

How many presentations have you seen where the term "spectrum" is applied to a variety of results that are not spectra - GC or HPLC chromatographs, for instance? Careless use of scientific terminology is distressingly common.

 

[specificagent1]

don't appreciate the distinction between spectroscopy and spectrometry, not to mention their students.

what's the difference?

 

[CM_Tutor]

what's the difference?

A spectroscopic technique involves shining light onto or through a sample and observing changes in intensity. The sample is usually intact at the end. Mass spectrometry involves destroying the sample and then detecting the fragments, with no measurements of light intensity involved.

 

[jazz519]

Are they supposed to be full mark answers? The Q26b (3 marks) question about identifying the compound...the student said MS and IR for spectroscopy which is incorrect IMO because MS is not spectroscopy (it's spectrometry).

Not all of them are full marks. It says band 5-6 so there will be some that will lose some marks. Although incorrect terminology as outlined by CM_Tutor, you probably wouldn't lose a mark for something minor like that.

 

[someth1ng]

So, these answers may be examples that are classified at high Band 5 or low Band 6 level, or somewhere in between, if they are following the previous practice.

Right, got it. They generally seemed like reasonably good answers but generally less than I'd expect from a top-level student.

Not all of them are full marks. It says band 5-6 so there will be some that will lose some marks. Although incorrect terminology as outlined by CM_Tutor, you probably wouldn't lose a mark for something minor like that.

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if it was accepted. However, it's effectively not answering the question because it's equivalent to suggesting a pH test. The real difference is how similar the words are: spectrometry and spectroscopy sound the same but pH test and spectroscopy sound...very different.

 

[CM_Tutor]

The full set of materials from the 2019 Chemistry HSC is available at https://educationstandards.nsw.edu....4-2019/standards-chemistry-sect-2-q21-34-2019

 

[CM_Tutor]

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if it was accepted. However, it's effectively not answering the question because it's equivalent to suggesting a pH test. The real difference is how similar the words are: spectrometry and spectroscopy sound the same but pH test and spectroscopy sound...very different.

The syllabus lumps NMR, MS, and IR together under the inquiry question "How is information about the reactivity and structure of organic compounds obtained?" Students are required to:

• conduct qualitative investigations to test for the presence in organic molecules of the following functional groups:
  • carbon–carbon double bonds
  • hydroxyl groups
  • carboxylic acids
• investigate the processes used to analyse the structure of simple organic compounds addressed in the course, including but not limited to:
  • proton and carbon-13 NMR
  • mass spectrometry
  • infrared spectroscopy

Looking at the question for 26(b), it has a general focus and I think most students would see MS as a spectroscopic technique - it is provided alongside the IR and NMR spectra shown in the question, after all, and all are labeled using the term "spectrum". The annotation from the markers says that the response "demonstrates extensive knowledge and understanding of spectroscopy", so it appears they have lumped MS in with IR and NMR too. Everything about the way these three are presented in teaching and textbooks and exams has them lumped into a single category.

Looking at the other band 5/6 answer, it addresses IR and NMR (so stays properly spectroscopic) but speaks in much more general terms. Clearly a broad range of possible responses was considered, as is appropriate with a question of this nature.

 

[CM_Tutor]

Are they supposed to be full mark answers? The Q26b (3 marks) question about identifying the compound...the student said MS and IR for spectroscopy which is incorrect IMO because MS is not spectroscopy (it's spectrometry).

@someth1ng, a 6 mark question that I have found from a 2020 Trial that you might like...

 

[idkkdi]

@someth1ng, a 6 mark question that I have found from a 2020 Trial that you might like...

View attachment 32991

what is actually different between uv-vis and colourimetry other than the light source?

chem in focus seems to want to say uv-vis is the one with chromophores absorbing light.
aren't chromophores also the one absorbing the light in colourimetry.