How does HSC Beginners/Continuers roughly align with HSK levels? & Taking this subject as a non-heritage speaker? (1 Viewer)

[Duskheaven]

1. How does HSC Beginners/Continuers HSC bands roughly align with HSK levels for these subjects?

2. If someone takes Chienese as a non-heritage speaker are they basically screwing their ATAR due to the shear amount of heritage speakers taking the subject ? I, also, imagine that students from non-heritage speaker background's parents may be less willing, on average, to pay for Chinese weekend school / cram school.

Asking out of pure interest as I've been in China/Taiwan/Hong Kong for the last year and I'm deeply interested in language pedagogy.

My guess is that the vast majority of Chinese continuers are HSK2.5-3.3 equivalent (2021 course). However, the listening section is a lot slower than what I would expect at HSK3. This is just my guess.

btw. check bio for free resources

 

[...xD]

1. How does HSC Beginners/Continuers roughly align with HSC bands for these subjects?

2. If someone takes Chienese as a non-heritage speaker are they basically screwing their ATAR due to the shear amount of heritage speakers taking the subject ? I, also, imagine that students from non-heritage speaker background's parents may be less willing, on average, to pay for Chinese weekend school / cram school.

Asking out of pure interest as I've been in China/Taiwan/Hong Kong for the last year and I'm deeply interested in language pedagogy.

My guess is that the vast majority of Chinese continuers are HSK2.5-3.3 equivalent. However, the listening section is a lot slower than what I would expect at HSK3. This is just my guess.

btw. check bio for free resources

1. In the past chinese continuers has scaled decently well (and beginners in comparison a bit worse ofc), although recently the papers has been getting harder in difficulty (maybe to account for the increase in heritage ppl)

2. Not sure about the atar screwing part, but all I can say is, non heritage speakers do need to put in much more effort to get similar grades to heritage speakers (probably 1.5x ish) - from what I've seen though, the average heritage student has an advantage in speaking and listening (like ofc right), but reading and writing capabilities still stay kinda minimal unless they went to saturday school (even then though most ppl dont improve like too much- talking from personal experience here)

But tbh, at this point I feel like unless you're quite certain you are passionate about the subject and ready to put in lots of effort daily, it'll be quite hard to get a band 6 for non heritage.

The subject is unfair. They need to open up a separate continuers course for non heritage people too.

The old regulations made it hard for heritage students, and the new regulations have made it hard for non- heritage students. Still kinda mad at my old teacher for recommending me to do context, like even though in year 3 I spent 2 months in China studying nothing, and spoke chinese at home, I am not and will not catch up to my peers who had lived in china till they were like 9 years old with 2 months to spare before they turned 10 (the cut off for in context)

 

[Duskheaven]

1. In the past chinese continuers has scaled decently well (and beginners in comparison a bit worse ofc), although recently the papers has been getting harder in difficulty (maybe to account for the increase in heritage ppl)

2. Not sure about the atar screwing part, but all I can say is, non heritage speakers do need to put in much more effort to get similar grades to heritage speakers (probably 1.5x ish) - from what I've seen though, the average heritage student has an advantage in speaking and listening (like ofc right), but reading and writing capabilities still stay kinda minimal unless they went to saturday school (even then though most ppl dont improve like too much- talking from personal experience here)

But tbh, at this point I feel like unless you're quite certain you are passionate about the subject and ready to put in lots of effort daily, it'll be quite hard to get a band 6 for non heritage.

The subject is unfair. They need to open up a separate continuers course for non heritage people too.

The old regulations made it hard for heritage students, and the new regulations have made it hard for non- heritage students. Still kinda mad at my old teacher for recommending me to do context, like even though in year 3 I spent 2 months in China studying nothing, and spoke chinese at home, I am not and will not catch up to my peers who had lived in china till they were like 9 years old with 2 months to spare before they turned 10 (the cut off for in context)

Sorry, it was extremely late at night when I posted this and I originally wrote HSC instead of HSK. Edited!

 

[Duskheaven]

1. In the past chinese continuers has scaled decently well (and beginners in comparison a bit worse ofc), although recently the papers has been getting harder in difficulty (maybe to account for the increase in heritage ppl)

2. Not sure about the atar screwing part, but all I can say is, non heritage speakers do need to put in much more effort to get similar grades to heritage speakers (probably 1.5x ish) - from what I've seen though, the average heritage student has an advantage in speaking and listening (like ofc right), but reading and writing capabilities still stay kinda minimal unless they went to saturday school (even then though most ppl dont improve like too much- talking from personal experience here)

But tbh, at this point I feel like unless you're quite certain you are passionate about the subject and ready to put in lots of effort daily, it'll be quite hard to get a band 6 for non heritage.

The subject is unfair. They need to open up a separate continuers course for non heritage people too.

The old regulations made it hard for heritage students, and the new regulations have made it hard for non- heritage students. Still kinda mad at my old teacher for recommending me to do context, like even though in year 3 I spent 2 months in China studying nothing, and spoke chinese at home, I am not and will not catch up to my peers who had lived in china till they were like 9 years old with 2 months to spare before they turned 10 (the cut off for in context)

It's a huge shame that the system disincentives learning chinese for non-heritage speakers. Not just on an individual level, but, also on a societal level encouraging non-heritage speakers to learn Chinese would go a long way in promoting cultural understanding.

 

[Duskheaven]

1. In the past chinese continuers has scaled decently well (and beginners in comparison a bit worse ofc), although recently the papers has been getting harder in difficulty (maybe to account for the increase in heritage ppl)

2. Not sure about the atar screwing part, but all I can say is, non heritage speakers do need to put in much more effort to get similar grades to heritage speakers (probably 1.5x ish) - from what I've seen though, the average heritage student has an advantage in speaking and listening (like ofc right), but reading and writing capabilities still stay kinda minimal unless they went to saturday school (even then though most ppl dont improve like too much- talking from personal experience here)

But tbh, at this point I feel like unless you're quite certain you are passionate about the subject and ready to put in lots of effort daily, it'll be quite hard to get a band 6 for non heritage.

The subject is unfair. They need to open up a separate continuers course for non heritage people too.

The old regulations made it hard for heritage students, and the new regulations have made it hard for non- heritage students. Still kinda mad at my old teacher for recommending me to do context, like even though in year 3 I spent 2 months in China studying nothing, and spoke chinese at home, I am not and will not catch up to my peers who had lived in china till they were like 9 years old with 2 months to spare before they turned 10 (the cut off for in context)

It's a shame that saturday school doesn't seem to be paying off but it also makes perfect sense. I can imagine how bad and boring that is. If you have any reflections on the expected progress, tell me.

For what it's worth, I was in Chinese language schools for about 4 months in China - 20hrs a week class, expectation of perhaps another 10-20hrs a week of self study at one school / 10-20hrs of speaking Chinese with Chinese friends at the other school. Everyone loved it and had rapid progress. (I'd guess HSK 0 to HSK3 for non-heritage speakers in ~3.5months). 30RMB an hour. No one was especially smart, it's just a reflection on the learning environment.

 

[Duskheaven]

if someone finds this post in 5yrs time, please still respond. I check boardofstudies at least biannually.

 

[evchai]

1. How does HSC Beginners/Continuers HSC bands roughly align with HSK levels for these subjects?

2. If someone takes Chienese as a non-heritage speaker are they basically screwing their ATAR due to the shear amount of heritage speakers taking the subject ? I, also, imagine that students from non-heritage speaker background's parents may be less willing, on average, to pay for Chinese weekend school / cram school.

Asking out of pure interest as I've been in China/Taiwan/Hong Kong for the last year and I'm deeply interested in language pedagogy.

My guess is that the vast majority of Chinese continuers are HSK2.5-3.3 equivalent (2021 course). However, the listening section is a lot slower than what I would expect at HSK3. This is just my guess.

btw. check bio for free resources

1. im taking hsc chinese continuers now as a non native and i feel the level is roughly 3, maybe 4 (i completed hsk4 with an average score without directly studying for hsk), although in reading and listening I tend to find 1, maybe 2 characters I may not understand, but definitely not to the extent where i can't understand the general texts.
2. I dont think it screws ur atar, especially as if you have a geniuene interest in the language/subject and have performed decently well, e.g. my 7/9 heritage speakers class (top 3). There are many schools who I have seen only have non-natives and will probably do veyr well, the only thing that is imbalanced now is that the stae ranks will mot likely be all heritage speakers. + I dont do any sunday schools for chinese
3. Listening is slower and you here the text twice, but hsk is multi choice which tbh I find musch easier than short answer quesitons in hsc which have longer texts

Hope this helps

 

[Duskheaven]

1. im taking hsc chinese continuers now as a non native and i feel the level is roughly 3, maybe 4 (i completed hsk4 with an average score without directly studying for hsk), although in reading and listening I tend to find 1, maybe 2 characters I may not understand, but definitely not to the extent where i can't understand the general texts.
2. I dont think it screws ur atar, especially as if you have a geniuene interest in the language/subject and have performed decently well, e.g. my 7/9 heritage speakers class (top 3). There are many schools who I have seen only have non-natives and will probably do veyr well, the only thing that is imbalanced now is that the stae ranks will mot likely be all heritage speakers. + I dont do any sunday schools for chinese
3. Listening is slower and you here the text twice, but hsk is multi choice which tbh I find musch easier than short answer quesitons in hsc which have longer texts

Hope this helps

Thank you so much. Honestly, higher than I expected. Completing HSK4 with an average score without directly studying for the HSC seems pretty wild to me honestly. It is 4 years but still, HSK4 is quite a good foundation - especially if you'd consider yourself HSK4 equivalant at speaking. 加油.

BTW, for maintance & improvement I reccomend hellotalk (or tandem). I did french continuers and wish I knew about this sooner.

 

[fromthethickofit]

Having studied both Chinese Continuers and Chinese Extension while also exploring the HSK system, I’ve developed a general sense of how the HSC bands align with the various HSK levels in terms of vocabulary, grammar, and performance expectations.

In my experience, Chinese Continuers aligns roughly with HSK Levels 1 to 4. HSK 1 introduces around 150 characters, HSK 2 expands that to 300, HSK 3 to 600, and HSK 4 to approximately 1200 characters in total. A student with a solid grasp of HSK 4-level vocabulary and grammar, particularly in reading comprehension and listening, would be well-positioned to achieve a Band 6 in Continuers, provided they can also meet the demands of writing and speaking tasks. Someone with HSK 3 proficiency could still perform quite well, potentially reaching a Band 5, though they may struggle slightly with complex written expression and subtle nuances in comprehension.

In contrast, Chinese Extension demands significantly more advanced understanding. The course revolves around responding to contemporary global issues and requires strong analytical, persuasive, and expressive skills. To perform at a high level in Extension, particularly to achieve a Band 6, students generally need to operate at around HSK 5 to HSK 6 level. HSK 5 introduces around 2500 characters, while HSK 6 covers 5000 or more. This level of fluency is necessary not just for comprehension but also for producing sophisticated and structured arguments in writing and monologues. Essentially, the Extension course expects near-native proficiency in both receptive and productive skills.

I’ve also reviewed Chinese Beginners materials and exam papers and would estimate that the course corresponds roughly to HSK Levels 1 through early HSK 3. Since HSK 3 includes up to 600 characters, and Beginners is far less demanding in terms of vocabulary and grammar, a student with HSK 2 proficiency, around 300 characters, would likely do quite well. From what I’ve observed, the reading sections contain very few unfamiliar words, often just two or three, which students are permitted to look up using a dictionary during the exam. This allowance, combined with the relatively basic sentence structures and predictable context of questions, makes the exam very manageable for non-heritage learners with foundational skills.

 

[truesigma]

It's a shame that saturday school doesn't seem to be paying off but it also makes perfect sense. I can imagine how bad and boring that is. If you have any reflections on the expected progress, tell me.

For what it's worth, I was in Chinese language schools for about 4 months in China - 20hrs a week class, expectation of perhaps another 10-20hrs a week of self study at one school / 10-20hrs of speaking Chinese with Chinese friends at the other school. Everyone loved it and had rapid progress. (I'd guess HSK 0 to HSK3 for non-heritage speakers in ~3.5months). 30RMB an hour. No one was especially smart, it's just a reflection on the learning environment.

Hey what language school in China did you go to? Im thinking about going to one too but theres so many to choose from

 

[xyyvii]

Hey same here! Does anyone know if NSL or Secondary college of languages is better for Chinese cont + ext?

 

[truesigma]

Im gonna be honest, I'm at NSL for Chinese continuers and it takes alot of self study as well as external speaking practice. If you are a native speaker then its not much of an issue but you only get 30mins or less per week to speak with your language teacher making it very hard to excel in mandarin speaking. NSL provides lesson days which is a full day off school once a week to visit NSL in Petersham to do some cultural activity and just more language practice. If you're looking to excel in Chinese, I'm not sure how far NSL can take you as there are almost 0 band 6 Chinese continuers or in Context, (you can check on HSC ninja honour roll). I do enjoy learning Chinese as we work through Canvas and can go ahead through material but I wouldn't say its very easy to self learn. Most people doing Chinese are native speakers and have no struggles with speaking or listening meaning they can pretty much take the HSC and do quite well. The only difficulty would be writing and a bit of reading so the course itself is definitely quite competitive.

As for the Secondary college of languages, from what I know it is based in Strathfield and has Saturday school, which definitely has alot more potential for speaking practice.

Don't get me wrong, Im still having lots of fun learning Chinese as there is some structure to what we learn which helps more than self study but honestly learning a new language takes immersion and if its not offered at school like a normal class, spoken continuously, it would be harder to learn, speak, etc.

If you have any other questions Im happy to help

 

[xyyvii]

Im gonna be honest, I'm at NSL for Chinese continuers and it takes alot of self study as well as external speaking practice. If you are a native speaker then its not much of an issue but you only get 30mins or less per week to speak with your language teacher making it very hard to excel in mandarin speaking. NSL provides lesson days which is a full day off school once a week to visit NSL in Petersham to do some cultural activity and just more language practice. If you're looking to excel in Chinese, I'm not sure how far NSL can take you as there are almost 0 band 6 Chinese continuers or in Context, (you can check on HSC ninja honour roll). I do enjoy learning Chinese as we work through Canvas and can go ahead through material but I wouldn't say its very easy to self learn. Most people doing Chinese are native speakers and have no struggles with speaking or listening meaning they can pretty much take the HSC and do quite well. The only difficulty would be writing and a bit of reading so the course itself is definitely quite competitive.

As for the Secondary college of languages, from what I know it is based in Strathfield and has Saturday school, which definitely has alot more potential for speaking practice.

Don't get me wrong, Im still having lots of fun learning Chinese as there is some structure to what we learn which helps more than self study but honestly learning a new language takes immersion and if its not offered at school like a normal class, spoken continuously, it would be harder to learn, speak, etc.

If you have any other questions Im happy to help

Thanks for the insight! I’m a native speaker but kinda struggle with speaking since I chuck in a few words from my parents‘s native dialect. I just have some questions I would like to ask:

1. Is the 30 mins per week with a language teacher just one class period or spread out across multiple free periods per week?
2. My mum prefers me going to SCL Saturday school (Kogarah campus) since she says that an in person class with (probably mostly Chinese) classmates and teacher could help me excel as she said that it is easier to improve my writing, reading and speaking skills. However, i would to learn ahead of time since im not too sure whether the class pace will be too slow for me. Do you think self studying/learning could be better at NSL if I put the work in?
3. I believe that NSL hsc data only showcases their state ranks and do you know anyone who didn’t state rank but got a band 6 at NSL for any languages since SCL has like 230~ bands 6 for non ext languages and 50~ for language ext because my mum is kinda turned off by supposed lack of band 6s NSL has?
4. How much hours per day or week would you say needs to be put into learning from NSL to achieve a high band 6 since some of my skills are really rusty?
5. For the lessons days, can you be there for speaking or do you have to participate in cultural activities since I‘m hoping to maximise the time I have on a physical campus to improve speaking
6. I’m not too sure whether you take Chinese ext or know anyone who does but do you think NSL is also good for Chinese ext?

so sorry for the yap

 

[truesigma]

sorry i saw this but forgot to reply.
1. It is in one period per week. You will have a dedicated subject time or 'study' period and you can organise from there
2. I think if you are proficient in self study it could be beneficial. However, you could always find NSL material and work on it yourself. For example I have an anki deck of Year 11 chinese continuers which I could share
3. I actually didn't know about the NSL state ranks but it does make sense.
4. Im still in my hsc year so I'm not too sure. It seems like chinese continuers has around a 40-50% band 6 percentage from what I can infer from NESA stats. Probably not too much though, sadly I wont recieve my results in time to allow you to choose respectively.
5. The lesson day has a general guideline usually with 3 sessions. If the assessment task will be on speaking and writing you will practice speaking and writing on that day so forth. For continuers, most kids will be speaking in Chinese inside the classroom towards the teacher but revert to English at lunch break and so forth, if thats what you are asking. Cultural activities is just a small fun activity of making 饺子 or 汤圆
6. I can't really help you on this because I don't take ext.

Generally the choice is more so between which lifestyle and study style you would prefer. I'm not sure if either would be better if we are comparing them based on teachers or material but generally the actual course of Chinese is straightforward for native speakers and I guess will only need to rely on drilling 听写.

For non native speakers I would suggest an in person Saturday school.
For native speakers, NSL will be fine. (if your grammar is good, speaking good and vocabulary)

This is an example of a year 11 later module from NSL. Hopefully this is helpful

 

[xyyvii]

sorry i saw this but forgot to reply.
1. It is in one period per week. You will have a dedicated subject time or 'study' period and you can organise from there
2. I think if you are proficient in self study it could be beneficial. However, you could always find NSL material and work on it yourself. For example I have an anki deck of Year 11 chinese continuers which I could share
3. I actually didn't know about the NSL state ranks but it does make sense.
4. Im still in my hsc year so I'm not too sure. It seems like chinese continuers has around a 40-50% band 6 percentage from what I can infer from NESA stats. Probably not too much though, sadly I wont recieve my results in time to allow you to choose respectively.
5. The lesson day has a general guideline usually with 3 sessions. If the assessment task will be on speaking and writing you will practice speaking and writing on that day so forth. For continuers, most kids will be speaking in Chinese inside the classroom towards the teacher but revert to English at lunch break and so forth, if thats what you are asking. Cultural activities is just a small fun activity of making 饺子 or 汤圆
6. I can't really help you on this because I don't take ext.

Generally the choice is more so between which lifestyle and study style you would prefer. I'm not sure if either would be better if we are comparing them based on teachers or material but generally the actual course of Chinese is straightforward for native speakers and I guess will only need to rely on drilling 听写.

For non native speakers I would suggest an in person Saturday school.
For native speakers, NSL will be fine. (if your grammar is good, speaking good and vocabulary)

This is an example of a year 11 later module from NSL. Hopefully this is helpful

View attachment 51742

三Q

 

[ventventventent]

sorry i saw this but forgot to reply.
1. It is in one period per week. You will have a dedicated subject time or 'study' period and you can organise from there
2. I think if you are proficient in self study it could be beneficial. However, you could always find NSL material and work on it yourself. For example I have an anki deck of Year 11 chinese continuers which I could share
3. I actually didn't know about the NSL state ranks but it does make sense.
4. Im still in my hsc year so I'm not too sure. It seems like chinese continuers has around a 40-50% band 6 percentage from what I can infer from NESA stats. Probably not too much though, sadly I wont recieve my results in time to allow you to choose respectively.
5. The lesson day has a general guideline usually with 3 sessions. If the assessment task will be on speaking and writing you will practice speaking and writing on that day so forth. For continuers, most kids will be speaking in Chinese inside the classroom towards the teacher but revert to English at lunch break and so forth, if thats what you are asking. Cultural activities is just a small fun activity of making 饺子 or 汤圆
6. I can't really help you on this because I don't take ext.

Generally the choice is more so between which lifestyle and study style you would prefer. I'm not sure if either would be better if we are comparing them based on teachers or material but generally the actual course of Chinese is straightforward for native speakers and I guess will only need to rely on drilling 听写.

For non native speakers I would suggest an in person Saturday school.
For native speakers, NSL will be fine. (if your grammar is good, speaking good and vocabulary)

This is an example of a year 11 later module from NSL. Hopefully this is helpful

View attachment 51742

this was fun, teachers are pretty RNG. MS BI IS TERRIBLE, MS HUANG IS GOATED etc

 

[ventventventent]

Hey same here! Does anyone know if NSL or Secondary college of languages is better for Chinese cont + ext?

probably same. 18/19 people e4d extension chinese at NSL last year and for continuers maybe 25+/40 all i remember was being rlly impressed with the ext marks. i have resources (check profile) for both or tutoring if anyone is interested

 

[xyyvii]

probably same. 18/19 people e4d extension chinese at NSL last year and for continuers maybe 25+/40 all i remember was being rlly impressed with the ext marks. i have resources (check profile) for both or tutoring if anyone is interested

Where did you find these stats from since on hsc ninja they only show the state ranks

 

[ventventventent]

Where did you find these stats from since on hsc ninja they only show the state ranks

cos i was in the cohort and i know everyone by name. priv message if u want more info