2007 Federal Election - Coalition or Labor/Howard or Rudd? (2 Viewers)

[atreus]

Gooo Johny, the Best PM ever.... the IR reforms is a good thing, it improves the economy, whats the point of getting a few extra bucks a week when our economy slumps thus our currency goes down... most of our products are from overseas and if our dollar goes down, prices goes up thus those extra bucks means nothing.... howard is the one thats thinking about the future.... his the only primeminister with the guts to say whats benifical to the economy instead of rudd, only doing what ever to please us, despite the consequences.

it's not as simple as saying the currency "goes down" means higher costing imports. a higher dollar also means less exports. using your simple logic: higher dollar leads to less exports thus decreasing jobs.

also, workchoices is not the best policy for continuing the boom. i hate it when i hear people say that this way we can compete with China and India. PEOPLE WORKING FOR $20 LESS A WEEK WILL NOT HELP US COMPETE WITH CHINA AND INDIA. there are people in China moving from the countryside where they are earning nothing, to the city where they are willing to earn very little (i dont know exact figures, but they will probably be happy to work for the $20 we had to give up). Also, groups of Chinese workers for the beijing olympics are 'renovating' beijing by platning trees landsapcing, fixing roads, etc. ONE group can renovate ONE neighbourhood in ONE day. do u know anyone who is willing to do such physical work all day for $5 and few working rights?

the way to compete internationally is through EDUCATION. the problem isnt unions, it's the skills shortage that the government noticed, but has ignored.

I agree with LCollins- it is in the unions' best interests to have business up and running. many people seem to forget that unions are businesses too.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/23/2067711.htm

Explosive $4bn Pensioner, carers plan.
Shoring up the conservative grey vote
Havent heard Labor say much about the elderly - the focus has been the future. Could be a good wedge/chink he's found?

Surely the parties cant keep up these lavish promises

[on the increase from $107 to $500 per week utility allowances)

"Paul Versteege from the Combined Pensioners and Superannuants Association says while any extra money is welcomed, it is still not enough.

"We welcome Mr Howard's commitment to a pensioner's standard of living but we stress what the 1 million Australians living on a pension of just $250 a week need is $4000 more, not 400 which is what Mr Howard has offered," he said."

is he serious?

 

[Iron]

haha that's what I thought. Bit of a Simpsons '150 BILLION' moment.
I think the better question is why it has taken so long.

 

[Calculon]

it's not as simple as saying the currency "goes down" means higher costing imports. a higher dollar also means less exports. using your simple logic: higher dollar leads to less exports thus decreasing jobs.

also, workchoices is not the best policy for continuing the boom. i hate it when i hear people say that this way we can compete with China and India. PEOPLE WORKING FOR $20 LESS A WEEK WILL NOT HELP US COMPETE WITH CHINA AND INDIA. there are people in China moving from the countryside where they are earning nothing, to the city where they are willing to earn very little (i dont know exact figures, but they will probably be happy to work for the $20 we had to give up). Also, groups of Chinese workers for the beijing olympics are 'renovating' beijing by platning trees landsapcing, fixing roads, etc. ONE group can renovate ONE neighbourhood in ONE day. do u know anyone who is willing to do such physical work all day for $5 and few working rights?

the way to compete internationally is through EDUCATION. the problem isnt unions, it's the skills shortage that the government noticed, but has ignored.

I agree with LCollins- it is in the unions' best interests to have business up and running. many people seem to forget that unions are businesses too.

We can compete with China and India, because we will always have industries where we have a comparative advatage, irrespective of the level of education.

 

[Calculon]

False. Although its unlikely to happen, it could if our education system erroded enough. At the same time India and China's is improving, hence we would eventually loose our comparative advantage in key exports like financial services.

Do you not understand economics? Even if they're better than us at everything, we still won't be unemployed because we'll still have a comparative advantage...

 

[volition]

Now I'm not entirely sure whether your talking about private contractors working in Iraq, or a privatised army invading another country, but both present greater problems to a country than a government doing the dirty work.

I think you're missing my actual underlying point here. I'm speaking more in moral terms: Why are men who wear green costumes allowed to kill Iraqis and not all men? The only logical solution is that nobody is allowed to.

My actual point was not that we should have private armies in Iraq, but that there should be no armies in Iraq. If its unacceptable for a private army, then it must also be so for a govt one.

As for accountability, good luck with that. Do you know they can barely even count what assets they have in the Australian Defence force?

also, workchoices is not the best policy for continuing the boom. i hate it when i hear people say that this way we can compete with China and India. PEOPLE WORKING FOR $20 LESS A WEEK WILL NOT HELP US COMPETE WITH CHINA AND INDIA.

I think people need to understand that there can be no 'right' to work, there can be no 'right' to work for a certain wage. The sooner people realise that you only have a job if people want your services, the better. Mutual self-interest is what gives you a job, not the unions ramming themselves down other peoples' throats.

 

[Triangulum]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/economy/swan-agrees-to-debate/2007/10/23/1192941031596.html

Next debate next week

I believe for Labor it was suicide, Costello is the liberals best debater and indeed the most funniest

Swans an idiot and we all know that

Costello, funny? Yeah, good one. He attempts to emulate Keating, but he has neither Keating's wit nor his passion.

 

[Iron]

I hope Rudd takes him on.
Costello's definitely the government’s best debater, but he very rarely comes across as likable in the end - in that way, he's like Keating. There's an overkill problem which makes him look like a complete arsehole.

 

[chicky_pie]

Reason why Labor shouldn't have control of this country, because silly laws are being passed by state Labor Premiers

example:

http://community.boredofstudies.org...s/156672/why-criminals-vote-morris-iemma.html

 

[chicky_pie]

A VOTER’S GUIDE TO RUDDSPEAK (Part 1)
What does our eloquent Prime Minister-in-Waiting really mean?
Kevin Says:
Let me tell you this…
Means:
I’m TELLING you, Stupid! There’ll be absolutely NO argument!
Kevin Says:
I’m an Economic Conservative
Means:
I’m an Economic Illiterate, without one scintilla of economic experience, understanding or background - but I’m hoping people won’t notice!
Kevin Says:
I am the Future!
Means:
I’m younger than Mr Howard.
Kevin Says:
John Howard is the Past.
Means:
I’m younger than Mr Howard.
Kevin Says:
If John Howard wins nothing changes.
Means:
We’ll have to put up with another 3 years of record growth, low unemployment, choice, opportunity and prosperity for all Australians.
Kevin Says:
John Howard says working Australians have never had it so good!
Means:
You can’t argue with the facts, but I’m trying to beat up a case that appeals to those who laughingly think I could do any better!
Kevin Says:
I’m going to tear up Work Choices!
Means:
The Unions are marching back into every workplace!
Kevin Says:
I’m going to restore balance and fairness to the workplace.
Means:
The Unions are marching back into every workplace!
Kevin Says:
Every Australian deserves a fair go!
Means:
The Unions are marching back into every workplace!
Kevin Says:
Labor will keep Australia’s economy strong without throwing fairness out the back door.
Means:
The Unions will be marching in through the FRONT door!



VoterVOX - Peter Costello responds
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...ph/comments/votervox_peter_costello_responds/

 

[iEdd]

lol oh n0es not fair workplaces. Those heartless union bastards!

 

[williams180]

unions are a joke. they shouldnt be near a workplace

 

[Muz4PM]

It is so much more heartening knowing that Luddite form the West Joe MacDonald declares that "he is back." A man of his record would only prove to be a hinderence on the continued growth of Australia. To think that he, and those like him, that motley crew of unionists such as Mighell and Harkins will have control of the government if Rudd is elected is enough to scare most reasonable Australians. I believe that a vote for John Howard is a vote for a continually prosperous Australia, independant of union power.

 

[Triangulum]

It is so much more heartening knowing that Luddite form the West Joe MacDonald declares that "he is back." A man of his record would only prove to be a hinderence on the continued growth of Australia. To think that he, and those like him, that motley crew of unionists such as Mighell and Harkins will have control of the government if Rudd is elected is enough to scare most reasonable Australians. I believe that a vote for John Howard is a vote for a continually prosperous Australia, independant of union power.

...Luddite? I think you may have the wrong word there.

 

[lala2]

Re: 2007 Federal Election - Coalition or Labor/Howard or Beazley?

I would vote Liberal. To invest in anything we need money, and the Liberals can guarantee a healthy economy that will generate money. I also live in the seat of Bradfield, which is heavily Liberal.

I don't get why this country needs separate federal and state governments--as in, yes you need state governments to make administration easier but why not keep it as a federal government election THEN let the ruling party delegate as needed to each state, so that if it's Labor federal government = Labor state government, and Liberal federal = Liberal state.

The current antagonism between the Liberal federal and Labor state means that nothing will ever get done, and since most infrastructure is on a state-by-state basis, no wonder our houses, education, public transport and what not are all falling apart.

 

[Muz4PM]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

Luddite, group of people who opposed the changes of the industrial revolution. Another who seems to dislike the new industry changes is Mr MacDonald.

I would also find it prudent if Mr MacDonald left his political commentary until after the election, when the final results are tallied, particularly in his native Western Australian seats. This is where the Liberals were leading in a recent Westpoll in the seats of Stirling, Hasluck and Cowan, and have a good chance in the unpolled seat of Swan. A possible gain of two hear could break the back of Mr Rudd and see Mr MacDonald with a giant load of egg on his face.

 

[chicky_pie]

PM's secret weapon - Iemma

THE crisis prone Labor Government of Premier Morris Iemma today will be drawn into the federal election campaign - as a shock weapon for the federal Liberal Party.
Liberal advertising will feature Iemma ministers Reba Meagher and Michael Costa, and accuse them of botching health and transport policies.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22649023-5007132,00.html

 

[Muz4PM]

How will he have egg on his face? So what if the Liberals win a handfull of marginal seats in WA. This hardly shows his comments about the "industrial revolution" were wrong.
quote]

Nor did I suggest that. What my inference was that if the Liberals pick up the two Perth maginals means that Rudd will have to pick up 18 instead of 16 seats. Given how close the election is predicted to be by pundits and politicians alike Rudd may find 18 a bridge too far. Of course, on the same token, the ALP could gaintwenty and two Liberal gains would not mean much. The point I was making is it is a little hard for Mr MacDonald to "be back" if his patsy from Brisbane is not elected.

 

[LCollins]

All this anti-union fervour doesn't make any sense. I'm curious, has any one on this forum that is so anti-unionist, actually had a bad experience with unions? Please post your bad stories. As it seems like everyone on this forum seems to be 21 years or less, I'd be very surprised if you have had a personal bad experience with union.

These anti unionists seem to understand little about businesses. Believe it or not, their primary motivation in the workplace is not to be nice, friendly and employ people - it is to make a profit. To make as large as profit as possible, it is ideal to buy your workers for as cheap as possible. Unions, whilst they are a business, profit from workers achieving better working conditions - notice the alignment of the profit interest and the worker's interest. May I draw your attention to the case of Bernie Banton - an asbestos victim that fought James Hardie in a legal battle for compensation - without the help of the financial power of the union, it is unlikely he would have succeeded. On a much more personal level, both my sister and a close friend of mine have had run ins with bad bosses, who refuse to recognise their legal obligations (eg. being paid during training), purely because they don't have to - they are in a position of having extroadinary bargaining power.

To make this clear, I'm not saying unions are perfect - no organisation is (definately not the Liberals anyway). It is important however to recognise that they are a vital part of the workplace, as they provide the bargaining power balance that is needed for fairness. All of you that are wishing a quick death to the unions, fail to realise this.

All of you that make the argument that economics should just play its course, that people will get paid what they bargain for, are not practising what you preach by supporting John Howard. I say this as John Howard has spent $2 million in advertising to small business, professing the benefits of small businesses collectively bargaining with big businesses. Just to make it clear, John Howard through his WorkChoices, suggests that it is wrong for individuals to collectively bargain, but with small business thats suddenly ok. If you don't believe me, here is an article supporting my claim:

http://jmcdonald.org/opinion/?p=24

 

[Enteebee]

All this anti-union fervour doesn't make any sense. I'm curious, has any one on this forum that is so anti-unionist, actually had a bad experience with unions? Please post your bad stories. As it seems like everyone on this forum seems to be 21 years or less, I'd be very surprised if you have had a personal bad experience with union.

Um... Let's see where this logic takes us. I'm curious, has anyone on this forum that is so upset with the state of our hospitals actually had a bad experience in a hospital? If not, the value of your critique of our hospitals is lessened.