$60b wiped off market (2 Viewers)

[Lentern]

You’re kidding right? oh god Keynesian has failed oh god hmmmmm I know I'll just pretend we never followed, seriously why are you defending a theory which does nothing but increase debt, prolong recessions and increase their severity? Surely you must realise the stimulus packages of the world have failed and stagflation is on the horizon?

Really it was followed was it? Governments imposed regimes of austerity and frugality during the boom of the late nineties and most of the 2000's? During this period they hacked away at government spending and hiked up taxes did they? Your thesis is the most unspeakably stupid thing that has ever been uttered on this place, that somehow the inability of Keynesian stimulus to sweep aside the worst economic crisis since the depression disproves it's merit, and that now the undesirable state of affairs is entirely the doing of the stimulus, not the events that preceded. Do you even want to be taken seriously?

 

[mirakon]

why do scubasteve and lentern get into an argument on almost every thread they go to?

 

[Lentern]

why do scubasteve and lentern get into an argument on almost every thread they go to?

Because only one off us is from planet Earth.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

It doesn't matter how little or high highly they spent during the boom, it doesn't matter how little or highly they taxed. You will keep having periodic boom and the busts hat follow until you kill off the the reserve bank system. why can't you see that a stimulus package just prolongs the inevitable bust, making the down turn bigger and bigger with every injection? Why must you fight this at every turn? In this case I'm asking to kill off the reserve bank not kill off the government. we are on the verge of having the worst case of stagflation in history, what would you do about it? spend more? Why can't you see what any rational person can see? We're fucked! So many more people are going to have their lives destroyed than the few that would of suffered had governments around the world just let the bust happen! would of been out of it within A YEAR BUT NO just had to make it worse. At the end of the 1970's everybody said never again would we let this happen! 30 years later and we've all just forgotten the lesson we learnt?

 

[Lentern]

It doesn't matter how little or high highly they spent during the boom, it doesn't matter how little or highly they taxed. You will keep having periodic boom and the busts hat follow until you kill off the the reserve bank system. why can't you see that a stimulus package just prolongs the inevitable bust, making the down turn bigger and bigger with every injection? Why must you fight this at every turn? In this case I'm asking to kill off the reserve bank not kill off the government. we are on the verge of having the worst case of stagflation in history, what would you do about it? spend more? Why can't you see what any rational person can see? We're fucked! So many more people are going to have their lives destroyed than the few that would of suffered had governments around the world just let the bust happen! would of been out of it within A YEAR BUT NO just had to make it worse. At the end of the 1970's everybody said never again would we let this happen! 30 years later and we've all just forgotten the lesson we learnt?

Yeah the 70's stagflation was caused by Keynesian spending and had nothing to do with the arab oil crisis. Next thing you'll be telling me about this guy Lyndon Larouche.

 

[funkshen]

scuba_steve, the only lesson we learned in the 1970s was that oil exporting arabs are cunts and the phillips curve had to be adjusted for expectations and short-term long-term dynamics (dynamics being anathema to Keynesian economics this is hardly surprising)

although the US Federal Reserve system is a truly malignant cancer

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Yeah the 70's stagflation was caused by Keynesian spending and had nothing to do with the arab oil crisis. Next thing you'll be telling me about this guy Lyndon Larouche.

omfg stop looking at the middle of the problem at start looking at the beggining and end. you can blame corporate greed all you want but what allowed them to be greedy? you can look at stimulus packages and say that seems like a great idea but what is the outcome? LOOK AT THE OUTCOMES NOT THE INTENTIONS

And for gods sakes i was referring to how we fixed the stagflation not what caused the stagflation ugh

 

[funkshen]

omfg stop looking at the middle of the problem at start looking at the beggining and end. you can blame corporate greed all you want but what allowed them to be greedy? you can look at stimulus packages and say that seems like a great idea but what is the outcome? LOOK AT THE OUTCOMES NOT THE INTENTIONS

m8 even you can admit that in a Keynesian framework the US stimulus package was pathetically small. it was supposed to plug the output gap but was only a third to a half the size necessary to do so. this isn't a vindication of stimulus spending, rather it is quite obvious that it is incredibly hard to implement a proper stimulus package (especially if you've been in deficit for 8 years already). furthermore, the destruction of so much (fake) housing wealth has imposed saving discipline on many american households at the exact moment they need to be spending, in effect working counter to stimulus.

edit: lol at anyone who saw a financial advisor 6 years ago who told them that zero growth over the minimum 6 year investment period was unheard of

 

[scuba_steve2121]

m8 even you can admit that in a Keynesian framework the US stimulus package was pathetically small. it was supposed to plug the output gap but was only a third to a half the size necessary to do so. this isn't a vindication of stimulus spending, rather it is quite obvious that it is incredibly hard to implement a proper stimulus package (especially if you've been in deficit for 8 years already). furthermore, the destruction of so much (fake) housing wealth has imposed saving discipline on many american households at the exact moment they need to be spending, in effect working counter to stimulus.

which again makes it even more abundantly obvious that prehaps stimulus packages are not the answer.

 

[Lentern]

omfg stop looking at the middle of the problem at start looking at the beggining and end. you can blame corporate greed all you want but what allowed them to be greedy? you can look at stimulus packages and say that seems like a great idea but what is the outcome? LOOK AT THE OUTCOMES NOT THE INTENTIONS

And for gods sakes i was referring to how we fixed the stagflation not what caused the stagflation ugh

Corporate greed, what the hell are you talking about I never said any of this.

 

[funkshen]

letting creative destruction do its work is a pretty hard platform to push unfortunately

Corporate greed, what the hell are you talking about I never said any of this.

oil

 

[Blastus]

m8 even you can admit that in a Keynesian framework the US stimulus package was pathetically small. it was supposed to plug the output gap but was only a third to a half the size necessary to do so. this isn't a vindication of stimulus spending, rather it is quite obvious that it is incredibly hard to implement a proper stimulus package (especially if you've been in deficit for 8 years already). furthermore, the destruction of so much (fake) housing wealth has imposed saving discipline on many american households at the exact moment they need to be spending, in effect working counter to stimulus.

edit: lol at anyone who saw a financial advisor 6 years ago who told them that zero growth over the minimum 6 year investment period was unheard of

one trillion

not big enough

fucking hell it was considered massive back then - biggest stimulus ever and when actually proven to not gave worked people are like lol 'no we needed much much more'

ugh blunt policy tools.

 

[Lentern]

letting creative destruction do its work is a pretty hard platform to push unfortunately


oil

That wasn't about greed it was about Yom Kippur.

 

[funkshen]

one trillion

not big enough

fucking hell it was considered massive back then - biggest stimulus ever and when actually proven to not gave worked people are like lol 'no we needed much much more'

ugh blunt policy tools.

I'm not saying it would work, or that it's a good idea, or it's not fucking insane. Just saying the US stimulus was Keynesian-lite. I think the actual figure "should have" been like $1.7trn or so. Just goes to show that Keynesian stimulus is not the correct response to massive asset deflation/wealth writedown/pervasive negative equity etc etc, and that it is rapidly becoming an outdated policy prescription.

see: Japan

 

[cosmo kramer]

john maynard grains

in the long run we're all..... bread

 

[Haemolymph]

Why couldn't they just replace the $60 billion that went missing? I mean, it's pretty easy to print some more money.

 

[zombie omie jay]

make gates and buffet 'disappear' and inject their collective fortunes into the market

Problem solved.

are you a fucking moron

 

[abbeyroad]

"in the long run we're all dead"

well in the short run we ain't doing too swell either.

 

[abbeyroad]

these threads always make me lol. thank god for all us teenage and 20 something year old armchair economists giving comprehensive commentary on the intricacies of the 07 market collapse and subsequent recession and what's happening now.

has it ever occurred to you that some of us are actually studying to become an economist?

So what are the consequences of this reduced credit rating?

EDIT: As in would going from AAA to AA+ really change anything?

the cost of borrowing would likely go up leading to blah blah blah.

Really it was followed was it? Governments imposed regimes of austerity and frugality during the boom of the late nineties and most of the 2000's? During this period they hacked away at government spending and hiked up taxes did they? Your thesis is the most unspeakably stupid thing that has ever been uttered on this place, that somehow the inability of Keynesian stimulus to sweep aside the worst economic crisis since the depression disproves it's merit, and that now the undesirable state of affairs is entirely the doing of the stimulus, not the events that preceded. Do you even want to be taken seriously?

hahahahahah in the real world it kinda does. if filling your car with piss doesn't make it run well then you don't fucking fill it up with piss every time you run out of petrol. doing the same thing over and over again when past experience had repeatedly shown that it would not lead to the desired effect is the definition of stupidity.

 

[funkshen]

The perpetual inability of governments to "properly" implement Keynesian economic policies hardly vindicates its practical or theoretical merit.

it is pragmatically disproven post 1973