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A national identity card (1 Viewer)

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MRCUNT said:
and u do realise that technology is improving everyday, tho i doubt ur figures.
But in cost wise, it would save more money in the long run, it would save a lot time, and more efficiency can be achieved. considering 0.5% is pretty low, for a technology that is hardly used. have it developed and it could very well work. but as in any technology there is always going to be problems, its the question of how often, how bad, and how much it will cost to fix it.

but i think u find in the future that one card will hold everything. its simply a lot
more organised. even use the card to start ur car, open ur house etc.
Emphasis on "in the future", I agree that eventually it'll probably be a good idea, that's why I've said multiple times in this thread that I see no need for it AT THE MOMENT, and don't think we're ready to make it work as intended, yet.
 

sam04u

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Hmm... It's dissapointing that i don't have much to add in a discussion which really is of significance.
Privacy being the major issue....

The benefits however... pretty minimal.

What do you do in a situation like this?
Well... here is what i think...

Instead of the idea of this card.. we forget it... so much information is available these days... that it is scary...

The best way this could be done; is if the information "CAN NOT" be accesed remotely; and the "card" could be a personal one; with certain ireplicabal things on it. MANY precautions would need to be taken so that reverse engineering is impossible; highly illegal and detectable.

It would have to be more like a chip...

And if someone needed the information they would read it through the chip. IF the chip was lost or reported stolen; it would beed to be automatically discontinued.

The chips would be optional with benefits such as; "less process time, less fumbling around and waiting @ airports; getting traffic and criminal charges checked... etc.

Each person would have to have VERY limited acces to the chips data. Otherwise all other information would have to be acessed the old way.

Here is an example of how the chip works practically.

Man wakes up;
Eats - whatever...
Goes to the bank - forget about i.d and 200 other things; They scan is N.I.C and boom he does what he needed to; Gets out of there.
He goes to some finance or whatever place; instead of asking to fill out paper work and waiting; zap; they scan his chip; get the info they need. Bang Bang Done. Denied or Approved.

Then he goes to the airport etc;

Perhaps even credit-cards could be stored on it some day.
And also currency; etc etc; (it would need to have a 3D picture;)
[And in the future perhaps even your d.n.a; which could be used to prevent serious fraud and identity stealing.]
 

MRCUNT

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ogmzergrush said:
Emphasis on "in the future", I agree that eventually it'll probably be a good idea, that's why I've said multiple times in this thread that I see no need for it AT THE MOMENT, and don't think we're ready to make it work as intended, yet.
but implementing it in australia and rest of the world, will take a long time anyway, considering they do it for everything.

yeah at the moment it wont happen anyway, in the future maybe. tho now i starting think that if we store all the data on our fingerprints? so just scan one finger on acomputer it comes with all the details. of course that means someone else will be storing all our personal stuff.
 

Nietzsche

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politik said:
I'm more for embedded data chips in the hands of humans than this. That would make it easier to pay for stuff and prove your identity, all you have to do it wave your hand in front of the receiver to identify yourself.
Or we could embed a bullet in your head so you never say that again.
 

Xayma

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Nietzsche said:
Or we could embed a bullet in your head so you never say that again.
What? How is the concept that different from the card?

These would most likely have some form of RFID to "save time". However one would need a cage around the card (possibly in the wallet) to stop others from reading it. May as well implant it. Then it is harder to steal.
 

FuckLiberals

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Xayma said:
What? How is the concept that different from the card?

These would most likely have some form of RFID to "save time". However one would need a cage around the card (possibly in the wallet) to stop others from reading it. May as well implant it. Then it is harder to steal.
I meant kill him. You know, gun to head, bullet comes out, brains spew everywhere.
 

Xayma

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FuckLiberals said:
I meant kill him. You know, gun to head, bullet comes out, brains spew everywhere.
Yes I know what you meant. But his statement (which was "more for" not "I WANT X NOW!!!!!!!1111oneoneone") did not deserve that sort of response.
 
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MRCUNT said:
but implementing it in australia and rest of the world, will take a long time anyway, considering they do it for everything.

yeah at the moment it wont happen anyway, in the future maybe. tho now i starting think that if we store all the data on our fingerprints? so just scan one finger on acomputer it comes with all the details. of course that means someone else will be storing all our personal stuff.
I'd object to any form of embedded technology on the same grounds, I just don't see any justification for it at this stage in the game. Our methods of data management just aren't at a stage yet where I'm comfortable with such a central repository of my personal information, moreso given that nobody can really nail down any advantages in the system aside from not having to carry a few cards with me.
 

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ogmzergrush said:
I'd object to any form of embedded technology on the same grounds, I just don't see any justification for it at this stage in the game. Our methods of data management just aren't at a stage yet where I'm comfortable with such a central repository of my personal information, moreso given that nobody can really nail down any advantages in the system aside from not having to carry a few cards with me.
it will make ur wallet ligher...
 

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ID cards to foil fraud, terrorism
By Louise Dodson, Chief Political Correspondent
April 26, 2006

A SINGLE "smart card" for every Australian adult, providing access to Medicare, welfare and tax benefits - while doubling as a national identity card - will be considered by federal cabinet today.

The card would include a computer chip and photograph, and is designed to reduce welfare and identity fraud, and protect against terrorists.

It would replace up to 19 other cards used by beneficiaries of government payments, including those for pensions, unemployment benefits, child care, Austudy, family tax benefits and concessions for medicines.

Since the London bombings last year the Government had also been considering introducing a separate identity card to fight terrorism and boost national security. But the cost of two cards is regarded as far too high, so cabinet will now look at combining aspects of both.

The plan for the separate security ID card - which is being pushed by the intelligence agencies - is expected to be dropped.

Nevertheless, the Government expects opposition to the smart card from people worried about civil liberties.

When the Hawke Labor government tried to introduce a national ID card in the mid-1980s, known as the Australia Card, it was fiercely opposed by the Liberal Party, including the Prime Minister, John Howard.

But last year Mr Howard said ID cards were back on the agenda because the world was now a very different place.

Concern about individual rights had to be balanced against protecting people from terrorism, he said.

"You have to put that against the right all of us have to expect of our Government that it takes all reasonable measures to protect us against the behaviour of terrorists," Mr Howard said.

"I think when people talk about civil liberties they sometimes forget that action taken to protect the citizen against physical attack is a blow in favour and not a blow against civil liberties."

More recently the Treasurer, Peter Costello, publicly praised the smart card idea, saying people were now more tolerant of intrusions into their privacy because of security threats.

The country's attitude to the cards has also changed. An ACNielsen poll for the Herald last August found that two-thirds of Australians were willing to sacrifice privacy and civil liberties for protection against terrorists. Sixty-one per cent were also in favour of a national identity card.

Cabinet remains concerned about the cost, which would be more $1 billion, but it would also save money by cracking down on people cheating on welfare and other government benefits.

After the Australia Card failed, Labor introduced a tax file system, which has been expanded by the Howard Government. It allows computer cross-checking to discover tax and welfare fraud.

The Government has been watching with interest the experience of the British Government, which this month announced an ID card that will allow holders access to some government services.

A big issue has been the cost of that card, about $13 billion. Britain will start to issue cards from 2008-09, but the task could take 10 years to complete. The Identity and Passport Service says it expects the card to be accepted by the public as part of life within 10 years.

About 100 nations have identity cards of some kind. Smart cards are used in many European countries and Singapore to crack down on identity fraud.


- The new card would be used for social security, Medicare and other government benefits.

- Funding to start in this year's budget.

- Could cost $1 billion.
-SMH
 

gilmoregirl

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I know this is completely unjustified etc. however, I can't help associating scenarios such as those within 1984 (Orwell) and V for Vendetta with identity cards.
 

davin

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the bigger concern is that i don't think they can do fraudproof anything
 

withoutaface

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Hopefully they give the option to either continue using your existing card, or switch to the new system, and maintain that option indefinately. That would strike the right balance.
 

Enlightened_One

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Somehow I don't think so, waf. What I heard on the radio (a couple of hours ago) is that no one is going to be forced to get the new cards, but you're going to need them to access things such as health, etc, that your old cards did. So, in effect, while they're not compulsory it's almost impossible to function in society without them. Catch-22
 
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withoutaface said:
Hopefully they give the option to either continue using your existing card, or switch to the new system, and maintain that option indefinately. That would strike the right balance.
"It will be necessary for everybody who needs the card to apply for one and it will not be compulsory to have the card," he said.
"But by the same token it will not be possible to access many services which are normally accessed by people unless one is in possession of the card."

I think that should answer your concerns.
 

Xayma

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Too much data seems to be on that card, especially in terms of electronic data. While the information may be on that card that is available in that wallet, it requires extra cards to carry around (I don't particularly like carrying more then necessary if I go out drinking due to the risk of theft or loss) and also alot of those are physical information only on the card. I cannot see enough safeguards being built into the system, probably in the name of efficiency, however, each component should requires a completly different set of encryption mechanisms to require something. The computer system at medicare offices shouldn't be able to see how many demerit points I have left on my drivers licence it is irrelevant.

Magnetic strips allows the data to be copied (and with this much data it could become a target) without the person knowing of a physical loss (if I lose my wallet I know identifying information is compromised) an RFID tag is even worse.
 
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I'm struggling to decide which, there is either a lack of uniformity in vision or a tendency for lies in explaining the purpose and nature of the proposed card. In particular, I am troubled by whichever dickhead politician it was that I heard on the radio yesterday who somehow managed to say "The card will help ensure national security" and "There is no reason for concern, the card will hold only basic personal information", in one response to a question, without so much as a chuckle at the stupidity of his own statement.

Once again, I am very unimpressed that this is looking increasingly like it will happen, despite lack of need, despite lack of tangible benefit and despite lack of security.
 
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Given the difficulty in identifying terrorists based on "only basic personal information", I don't imagine that either is a viable means of ensuring national security.

Psst, I don't think anyone has actually given it any thought past the fact that "anti terrorism" is an excellent term for selling the idea of the card to senior citizens and anyone else still buying their bullshit.
 

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