You need to remember that it wasn't just: England arriving, killing heaps of Aborginal people, stealing land etc and then it was over.
Aboriginal children were still stolen from their families in the 1970s. You keep saying stuff like 'get over the past' 'you can't blame the past for the way ppl act now..' 'why should they get advantages like welfare for something in the past...' You need to stop generalising and you really need to remember it isn't just the past. Racism, disadvantages are happening NOW. It wasn't an event in the 18th century and we are still seeing the effects. We are talking about decades of dispossession, segregation, abuse, do you deny all that?
You argue that no matter, what happened in the past, an individual Aboriginal person, could become successful etc. When you are born into a community with high unemployment, few health facilities, no role models, poor education, little money etc - how can you expect them to be any different from their parents? It is a vicious cycle. How can you expect an Aboriginal person born into 3rd world conditions, parents who have alcohol problems, who are poor, who was abused to do as well as the average white person. The situation a person is born into, greatly influences their future. In many Aborigines' cases, the situation they are born into is appalling. (See how I am trying to explain why the current situation is the way that it is)
A person's feeling of self determination is so so important. I read an article the other day where they said a person's feeling of control over their lives is probably the most important factor in their wellbeing/health. Even in the NT intervention, Aborigines are given money in ways that controls the way they spend it. I think this is an inexcusable violation of basic human rights, as though they are a 2nd class. There are many things we can do before we put children in foster care and control Aboriginal people's spending of their own money. We can give them proper resources and housing and other community facilities, mediation when it comes to conflict and much more.
And you disregard the significance of the disconnection from the culture and land, many feel, the loss of spriit that many experience. The land was immensley important to them. The loss of land should not be seen as an event in the past but something that is still happening - Aborigines are still being denied land rights today.
We canot change the past but we can change the current situation.
You are infected with the 'blame the victim' disease.
- Children were stolen. And where did they go? Into slums? Into the same cycle of neglect and abuse that they were removed from? No. Plenty of white kids were removed from their homes too, ultimately for the better. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with forcible removal of children, you can hardly say that these children were put into a situation that was worse than the one they were in. The removal of children
earlier than this, for the purposes of breeding the Aboriginals out was more abhorrant, but considering this happened well before the 1970s, anybody born > 1970 can’t use it as an excuse for their current behaviour.
- There have been examples and countless success stories of people who were born into poverty, or had less than ideal parents, who rose above this. So now by your own admission, you are saying that their communities are a less than ideal place to raise a child? And don’t give me any shit about lack of health facilities. There are plenty of Aboriginal only Medical Centres around, there are countless provisions for Aboriginal only people in Health. There are countless Aboriginal only jobs, scholarships. Shit, they even reserve university positions for them. Don’t tell me the opportunities aren’t out there for them.
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. How can you expect an Aboriginal person born into 3rd world conditions, parents who have alcohol problems, who are poor, who was abused to do as well as the average white person.
- Well this is the crux of the argument
for removal of children. You’re all adamant that children should not be removed from their parents in instances of abuse and neglect, but then you rant about how they cannot possibly remove themselves from the cycle if they’re left in these communities. Unless they live in fucking Arnhem Land, they have no excuse to not access the resources that are available to them. But no, it’s far easier to sit there and collect government money instead of taking some responsibility and raising yourself out of the situation.
Even in the NT intervention, Aborigines are given money in ways that controls the way they spend it. I think this is an inexcusable violation of basic human rights, as though they are a 2nd class.
- They are being told how to spend their money because they’ve done a fantastic job of demonstrating that they cannot be responsible for it. So do you think it’s a violation of a childs basic right for food, shelter and clothing? Because the money sure as shit doesn’t go to that when it’s being spent on the pokies, drugs and alcohol. God, everything you’re saying is contradictory. So far we’ve seen from you that;
- Yes the communities are shit holes, how can you expect kids to break the cycle
- You can’t tell them what they can do with their (i.e. tax payers) money!!!
We can give them proper resources and housing and other community facilities, mediation when it comes to conflict and much more.
- We already do. Have you seen what they do to their Housing Commission places? They have a total disregard for anything that is given to them, because they know people like you will continue to support them receiving hand outs. Explain to me how and where Aboriginals do not have adequate health and community facilities.
And you disregard the significance of the disconnection from the culture and land, many feel, the loss of spriit that many experience. The land was immensley important to them. The loss of land should not be seen as an event in the past but something that is still happening - Aborigines are still being denied land rights today.
- LOL. What? We’ve been through this. There is plenty of land available for them to go back and live the native way, if they so wish. Don’t tell me that they are still being denied land rights today. In my area, I can think of at least 5 instances of where land has been taken back and given to the Aboriginals. Don’t tell me they have no access to their own culture. It’s there waiting for them, but they’ve become too happy with the trappings of modern culture. They want to complain about their loss of culture, but they don’t want to do anything about conserving it themselves.
I don't condone bad things done by people with a terrible history at all. We are trying to explain the current situation. 'I don't buy using the past to excuse current behaviour' will you buy using the past and current to explain the current behaviour?
Explain to be the current circumstances that can ‘explain’ or ‘excuse’ their current behaviour.
Here’s me addressing post 107!
Umm anyway, I think you're ignoring a lot of my previous points and focusing on the idea that I'm not listening and that I'm wrong or not making sense etc. The thing is I understand where you're coming from and there are a lot more indigenous people in gaols etc but obviously there are reasons for this and I don't like it that you're putting the blame on the entire Aboriginal race considering the factors that cause the issue are primarily based on a loss of cultural heritage and identity. Ancestory is extremely important in the Aboriginal culture and it the suffering of past generations has a huge influence on how some Aboriginals view western culture and our laws. I just think we should focus on helping all Australians as opposed to putting them down and focussing on our differences. Of course, this is a two way street and all we can do is offer the help, it is up to each individual wether they want to accept it or not. Or maybe we're offering the wrong help? I don't really know, but either way I'm not going to put an entire cultural group down because they are more disadvantaged than me.
There is no loss of cultural heritage!! For fucks sake, they’re entirely welcome to go back to their native ways. If I had to sit in school and get bombarded with Aboriginal culture and history, how can you sit here and say that they can’t access their own culture?! The fact is, THEY DON’T WANT TO. If it’s so friggin important, explain to me why they aren’t accessing it? And don’t tell me it’s because they can’t. There are countless Aboriginal Culture Centres/Facilities/Elders who would be more than happy to share it with todays generation.