Accounting vs Investment Banking (2 Viewers)

[Conspirocy]

Re: Accounting Cadetships

I personally didn't choose to do Commerce to trade for some rich , I think of it as a viable avenue to contribute to society and improve the structure and efficacy of our capitalist system.

Agreed!

 

[ND]

Re: Accounting Cadetships

All this talk about business, enterpreneurship, aligning yourself with the right people, sucking up, investing, creating wealth is nauseating to me. It reminds me too much of the arse sucker contestants on the apprentice.

That's gotta be the first thing you've posted that i agree with.

 

[seremify007]

Ah well it looks like you've all beaten me to a pulp. Well done. I guess that's what I get for not having any backup dudes on here. I shall argue no further. But I never implied I was better than anyone. Quite the opposite really.

Well now that you know you give off that impression, maybe you should reconsider your subconscious aggressiveness in your posts?

I bring my own world of experiences to the table

You mean like how you know exactly what jobs juniors do in accounting firms, how useless their skills are, etc...? You've posted a lot of presumptions and stereotypes which you have yet to experience.

when it comes to myself having no direct association with a Big 4/IB or being a uni noob I get somehow shot down personally by the masses.

When you showed clear signs of disrespect and rudeness to people here who either aspire or already work in firms/IBs which you consider "below" your standards, that's what gets you shot down.

As for my real identity seremify007, I really don't see the need to parade myself and my efforts, as you keenly do. I think employers will take me for what I am in person and my track record, not by the harshness/niceness of posts I make at a school fan club or by the number of business friends at that corp.

It wasn't the harshness/niceness of the posts which was of concern, it was your blunt dismissal of other firms/companies as being below your standards. Despite all the rivalry which may be perceived between firms and companies in the profession, there's an unwritten rule of not badmouthing other companies. To add to this, unless you turn out to be some kick-ass candidate, I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up applying for positions at these businesses which you currently think are far below your standards- hence why I think it would be interesting if you showed prospectful employers what you really thought of them.

As redruM mentioned, you probably have excellent skills and experience in trading from a personal/individual perspective, but unless you get over your ego a bit and learn to respect not only others within the industry, but people who do not share the same beliefs or goals/ambitions are you, I think you'll have difficulty fitting in with a lot of businesses out there. Maybe this is all just a joke to you now, but I'd hate to see someone who might have skill, never get a chance to demonstrate it just because they were too cocky.

If you can't handle the unplesantries of doing business with people, then sorry you're not cut for it. An employer would rather take up someone whose decisive and instinctful than some preppy who just knows what to say at the right time, just to get browny points.

There's a definite distinction between being preppy who only says what people want to hear, and plain simple respect for others. The first one may get you a job, the second one could probably stop you getting one at all.

I couldn't resist to rebut this little gem one last time
"Attend recruitment events at our respective firms/IBs?" Show me the document that says you are an employee of these corps, and I'll give you my soul. Are you a recruiter?

Refer to PM.

 

[seremify007]

Seremify007, you speak like you hold yourself in such high authority... This is what I mean by these 'cadetships' going to your heads.

You mean because we do real work as opposed to just hearing about real work?

Just because you have a nice academic record, and are able to tag along at these nice shiny corporations, it is alright to talk down on people like myself.

People like yourself? I try my best to not talk down on people- and whilst I admit my post to you might have come off as a bit harsh, it was you who brought it on yourself purely by dissing other peoples' career choices, where they work, and what (you perceive) they actually do.

If I go by your sig correctly you were still a scrawny year 12 stressing about exams just last year? Heck last year, I chose to learn from real investors/traders who have gone beyond the corporate world and are doing so much better managing their own financial livelihoods.

Some of us appreciate getting into a respectable university. Whether I was stressing or not is another matter (go ask anyone who knew me last year and compare that to the rest of my school)- but I think that has to be one of the most pointless arguments you've raised thus far. If you were going to work off the fact that I only graduated from high school last year, you could have at least said I've only done 1 semester of uni and worked less than a year and thus haven't really gotten in deep in the corporate world. But hey, like you said, you're different to the "average punk 1st year".

Personally to me, you seem like the typical spoilt brat mummies boys, who wet themselves when they get into the real world. Like I've said, it's not just book smarts, but street smarts are also attractive to employers. I like to call myself a user of both.

Now you're getting personal.

It's good to hear that people realise the importance of both book and street smarts.

The question which really must be asked is what have you got to prove for having either (let alone both) of these "smarts"?

My main point is that, it really is pointless to judge me without even knowing...you really have no idea of the various ways to get industry exposure/knowledge beyond the Big 4/ Big IB world you only know about.

Like I said before, we don't judge you based on knowing you, but I'm sure I speak on alot of people here when I say that from what we've seen in your posts on BoS, serious or not, you come across as being disrespectful towards others. It's absolutely nothing to do with your skills-

I'm not trying to sound like I have a grudge against the corporate world... I do wish to get to the corporate level in the future. Perhaps even a cadetship god forbid. But I will not seem like I'm better than everyone or talk down to others who have taken other unique paths.

Bit late- you already have.

If you actually look beyond your fat cranium, I was including the accounting vs. IB banter to talk you stale people up. Because all the threads I've read on here are as pink as an ass kissers bottom. I'm sorry if I rained in on your tea party forum. But you have to learn how to deal with people like me. I believe my style is a leg up on the usual bulldust you hear from ponces with impeccable uni marks.

I don't know about the other people here but my uni marks aren't that hot.

Don't accuse me of having no morals, manners or integrity

... being raised in a business environment, and liasing with customers in the IT industry has taught me a lot about mutual relationships in business.

Openly admitting your support for and consideration of insider trading is a question of integrity or a question of stupidity- perhaps even both.

And lack of manners... I don't think I need to elaborate on this one.

It really is only an agression I have towards stiff lips like you.

But when it comes to being professional, I like to think I have some idea. I love it that you judge my personal traits, and potential failure with recruiters on a few posts I've made at a forum packed with teenyboppers...

Stiff lips because I don't badmouth other firms and companies?

Maybe you do know alot about being professional from your experience with the IT industry- but it definitely doesn't show here. Maybe because you think everybody else here is a 'teenybopper'- but amongst all the other great business beliefs and morals you have ascertained over the years from TV, media, friends, movies, etc... I'm sure you've heard this one:

First impressions last.

I've only joined in the last couple days, yet you seem to post like Ian Macfarlane and Peter Costello combs these forums every day.

Do you really think I hate CPA/CA's with a passion? My dad and I deal with them occasionally. And they certainly don't hate me. It's a business relationship. I don't kiss their ass.

Considering you are their client, why would you need to 'kiss their ass'?

I said, I don't really see the point in advertising myself

, but if you must perhaps try and compare 'my penis with your fat large corporatised one with massive authority' then: The ex IB'ers I associate with; some are heads of trading floors at broking houses, but the particular one I was talking about was a 28yo ex Mac bank dude, who has his own successful investment company, managing quite large portfolios - of which me and my father currently have some investments in . These guys aren't the juniors or recruitment agents you like to rub shoulders with. They have been there working hard and have used their experience there as a launching board into a sucessful independent financial career.

Simple question: Name?

I go to a uni in Melbourne, majoring in Finance and like I've said a million times, I don't think I'm gods gift. It is very much the opposite, as you speak like you own me just coz I'm different to your average punk 1st year. I really don't think you guys are so special or see why you think this forum is so special, but the way you talk to each other is hilarious. Spot a little game of croquet at the country club, old chap?

It's funny how you perceive me the same way we perceive you.

I've actually taken the effort to shy away from a lot of the corporate BSer's who think they're top because they are up there with the 'big boys' - but instead aligned myself with those members of the community who have successfully built up themselves up. Not ride on the coattails of corporate utopia.

Cheers.

You mean instead of actually working for/with the 'big boys', you just hang out with them and brag to people that you're connected?

Maybe that's not what you intended it- but that's how it was perceived.

All this talk about business, enterpreneurship, aligning yourself with the right people, sucking up, investing, creating wealth is nauseating to me. It reminds me too much of the arse sucker contestants on the apprentice.

Agreed.

I don't know why accounting is so shit to some people. I've come to realise it doesn't really matter what other people think. If they think accountants are too shit for IB, who cares? if they think lawyers get paid more than accountants, who cares? if they think the the big 4 are backwater institutes for investment banking, management consulting and law firm rejects (who are in turn medicine rejects), who cares?

Good point. But as this thread is meant to be a comparison between the two, I think it's fair game to rebutt some of these points when they are nothing more than stereotypes.

EDIT: This was more in relation to the big4 = IB rejects. I'm not sure about you but some people (myself included) take this as a bit of a personal knock/dismissal of what we do.

I think its like this. 1st year accounting/VCE is like learning what 1 + 1 is.

When you are working in accounting, you don't actually do 1 + 1 but in order to understand how to do anything else you have to know what 1 + 1 equals.

I'm under the impression that 1st year accounting is more book keeping (debits/credits) and understanding the fundamentals, whereas 2nd/3rd year is more specialised and learning how to do professional services as opposed to just the "accounts".

But like turtleface said, you need to know your basics as when you work, it's expected to be second nature. A lot of the time you'll see not only other people at your level, but all the way up, whereby people have to pause and think back to Debits and Credits to understand how something works.

Nice anlaogy to chem btw. I don't know anything about chem (never studied it) but it sounds pretty similar to the analogy of school/uni where you learn communication protocols from the 80s/90s, but out in the real world, noone really uses them anymore. (NB. I didn't study computing/programming/software development in uni so this analogy probably isn't very accurate either).

 

[seremify007]

Re: Accounting Cadetships

an irrevelant question, but i hope u guys dont mind.. but...

Is 1st Year Accounting (similar to VCE accounting) in action in a accounting job (auditing), coz its veeryy tedious and frustrating haha

Also forgot to add, in audit, you'll sometimes need to document the journal entries in the audit file not only for your own interest, but so that others in the future who look back on your work will understand it too.

 

[frinkanator]

Serimify007, once again you're are just a bag full of assumptions and rhetorical questions. You take me for what I post on a forum. God help you if you actually meet someone that you perceive to be better than you.

Getting 'paid' to 'work' at a Big 4 during holidays really constitutes for real work doesn't it? Did they actually let you near any offical financial documents? Or maybe studying past case studies in the board room, gives you big balls now. Perhaps wearing a nice suit to blend in with the employees gives you the authority eh? And the complementary refreshments were nice too?

Again, you're atttitude is typical of the cookie cutter spolied ponce who does not want to have regard for anyone outside the corporate world. Of course there are many in the corporate land who humbly use their instincts to advance. and they survive. I have little regard for uni-goers who think they own everyone below them because of vacation work.

Sorry to rain on your parade but there are many prodigies out there who have paved their own way to hopefully financial success. And probably you ignore them around uni or when you walk down the street.
Fortunately most of them don't billboard, promote and boast themselves on the internet. They actually humbly produce results with their own sweat and blood.

Contrary to what you may 'perceive' I don't walk around with my 'ego' blasting those who aren't like me. I find it futile to advertise myself on a forum populated with school-goers who bitch about exams and boyfriends....in fact this is first time I've expressed my notions after witnessing pitiful individuals like you. I'd rather contribute to forums with real individuals who show results and aren't afraid to share their losses. I just couldn't pass the offer to lay down the law for some of you brats.

And just because I actually bother to post my view on this humble abode of a forum, and agressively comment on your biasness and one sided view of the world, you just regurgitate the same elite attitude and insult those who have worked hard without even comprehending what it really is like or at least respecting the unknown... I'll go back to being 'inferior' if that puts you back into your comfort zone. Good riddance to you.

Cheers.

 

[seremify007]

Serimify007, once again you're are just a bag full of assumptions and rhetorical questions. You take me for what I post on a forum. God help you if you actually meet someone that you perceive to be better than you.

At least it's not based on a stereotype.

Getting 'paid' to 'work' at a Big 4 during holidays really constitutes for real work doesn't it? Did they actually let you near any offical financial documents? Or maybe studying past case studies in the board room, gives you big balls now. Perhaps wearing a nice suit to blend in with the employees gives you the authority eh? And the complementary refreshments were nice too?

So I'm the one full of assumptions am I? Yes that's a rhetoric.

TBH the topic of what work I actually do is no longer worth debating as I really have nothing to gain by proving your misconceptions wrong. If you think we sit around doing case studies and never go near finstats let alone clients, so be it.

Again, you're atttitude is typical of the cookie cutter spolied ponce who does not want to have regard for anyone outside the corporate world. Of course there are many in the corporate land who humbly use their instincts to advance. and they survive. I have little regard for uni-goers who think they own everyone below them because of vacation work.

And this is coming from the person who not only is fresh out of high school but has little regard for anyone outside of top-tierred IBs?

Not quite sure where you got this 'vacation work' thing from...

Sorry to rain on your parade but there are many prodigies out there who have paved their own way to hopefully financial success. And probably you ignore them around uni or when you walk down the street.
Fortunately most of them don't billboard, promote and boast themselves on the internet. They actually humbly produce results with their own sweat and blood.

So why are you describing people who are the opposite of you?

Contrary to what you may 'perceive' I don't walk around with my 'ego' blasting those who aren't like me. I find it futile to advertise myself on a forum populated with school-goers who bitch about exams and boyfriends....in fact this is first time I've expressed my notions after witnessing pitiful individuals like you. I'd rather contribute to forums with real individuals who show results and aren't afraid to share their losses. I just couldn't pass the offer to lay down the law for some of you brats.

So if you don't have any respect for BoS to begin with, why waste away your forum-virginity here?

And just because I actually bother to post my view on this humble abode of a forum, and agressively comment on your biasness and one sided view of the world, you just regurgitate the same elite attitude and insult those who have worked hard without even comprehending what it really is like or at least respecting the unknown... I'll go back to being 'inferior' if that puts you back into your comfort zone. Good riddance to you.

I agree that you bothered to post your view, but I'm not quite sure where you're getting my perceived bias from... apart from the bias against elitist 1st year uni students who haven't worked a day in their life (in the industry).

I don't care if you respond to most of this post, but I'm curious to hear this:
What do you expect to do on your first day on the job at a top-tier IB that you want to work at? How do you think this will change over the first 6-12 months?

That reminds me, you never ended up mentioning what fund your friend the 28 yr old ex-MBer manages.

I'm sorry if I come across to you as a snobby elitist because I don't think I'm too bad (anyone else here have any comments?), but as many people here already think and have probably said, for someone who's never worked a day in the industry, you talk big.

 

[ND]

And this is coming from the person who not only is fresh out of high school but has little regard for anyone outside of top-tierred IBs?

I think you misunderstood him; he has little regard for anyone working in any corporation. His posts suggest that he has about as much idea of what goes on in an IB as he does about the work of a Big 4 cadet.

as many people here already think and have probably said, for someone who's never worked a day in the industry, you talk big.

Seremify, have you forgotten? Trading his 2K positions (or maybe 10K with the help of a little leverage) obviously qualifies him as the expert on the entire finance industry.

 

[jpr333]

Ok let me have a jab at this. Blah seremfy beat me to it, whatever... (you bastard *waves fist*)

Serimify007, once again you're are just a bag full of assumptions and rhetorical questions. You take me for what I post on a forum. God help you if you actually meet someone that you perceive to be better than you.

You're definition of 'better' would be somewhat questionable (possibly connected to your delusions of greatness wherea you dont appear to have achieved anything tangibly successful excluding some trading on behalf of the folks.. i dunno..).

Getting 'paid' to 'work' at a Big 4 during holidays really constitutes for real work doesn't it? Did they actually let you near any offical financial documents? Or maybe studying past case studies in the board room, gives you big balls now. Perhaps wearing a nice suit to blend in with the employees gives you the authority eh? And the complementary refreshments were nice too?

Again belittling someone elses achievements for no apparent reason and with no apparent grounds to even make such farcical commentary. You are ripping into someone who has actually worked in a respected firm at the same age as you... something you said you wouldn't mind doing. Again you are not in a position to make these judgements.

Again, you're atttitude is typical of the cookie cutter spolied ponce who does not want to have regard for anyone outside the corporate world. Of course there are many in the corporate land who humbly use their instincts to advance. and they survive. I have little regard for uni-goers who think they own everyone below them because of vacation work.

Putting words into his mouth when he's just analysing ridiculous words out of yours. Note he hasn't attacked where you work, it's one way traffic for verbal barrages coming from your direction.

Sorry to rain on your parade but there are many prodigies out there who have paved their own way to hopefully financial success. And probably you ignore them around uni or when you walk down the street.
Fortunately most of them don't billboard, promote and boast themselves on the internet. They actually humbly produce results with their own sweat and blood.

What the hell does this even mean. Yes people can grind their way to financial success by themselves, heck i know family friends on GOOD 300+k salaries who clean attics for a living... but it's not like you're gonna know every joe blow walking down the street and congratualte them on their successes.

Contrary to what you may 'perceive' I don't walk around with my 'ego' blasting those who aren't like me. I find it futile to advertise myself on a forum populated with school-goers who bitch about exams and boyfriends....in fact this is first time I've expressed my notions after witnessing pitiful individuals like you. I'd rather contribute to forums with real individuals who show results and aren't afraid to share their losses. I just couldn't pass the offer to lay down the law for some of you brats.

Mate all you have appeared to do is blow your own trumpet with your 'trading successes', your awesome experience, great contacts and how you are leagues ahead of everyone in terms of business development. Yet you haven't even got your foot in the corporate door... Grow up hypocrit.

And just because I actually bother to post my view on this humble abode of a forum, and agressively comment on your biasness and one sided view of the world, you just regurgitate the same elite attitude and insult those who have worked hard without even comprehending what it really is like or at least respecting the unknown... I'll go back to being 'inferior' if that puts you back into your comfort zone. Good riddance to you.

Again hypocritical, you have attacked almost everything corporate and everyone working in said corporates, people who actually do work hard in respected firms. So you're trying to venture down the entrepreneurial path, good luck to you, i know self made IT'ers who own ferraris and lambos through family contacts, the opportunites are there but it's a risky game. Just stop attacking everyone else, it isn't warranted.

 

[Conspirocy]

This is just silly now. I think it was a silly topic to begin with and regret even trying to distinguish between the two, they are totally different fields and people in one rarely know what the other is doing.

People should just focus on themselves and not bother with what others are doing.

And another thing, unless your a complete idiot money will make money. So having a successful stock portoflio is not that impressive. Trading stocks is not an original idea, if you were someone who had a unique and cutting edge idea and made money from that, then okay you have some skill. Throwing some money into stocks and doing some reasearch on them is a skill in its own right, and yes you can be good at it. But its expected.

As for working in a firm, after the time a person would have spent there you would now have the maturity to ignore comments from frinkanator. You will get them from any profession you go into, and need a much thicker skin. Fair enough your pointing out silly/biased comments, but just because people dont always say them doesnt mean they dont think them every day. When you meet an arts student whats your first reaction? When a law student meets a commerce student, whats their reaction?

 

[seremify007]

Before I post, sorry if this post comes off as a bit short. I typed up quite a nice reply but then due to the horrible placement of the "Back" button on this laptop, I accidentally bumped it instead of pressing LEFT on the arrow keys.

This is just silly now. I think it was a silly topic to begin with and regret even trying to distinguish between the two, they are totally different fields and people in one rarely know what the other is doing.

I agree that it's difficult to compare these industries directly as it's like apples and oranges, but from a junior/grad position perspective, there is a lot of overlap/similarity between the two positions.

For example, a junior/grad in a fund manager is likely to have tasks such as preparation of reconciliations.

On the other hand, a junior/grad in audit is going to be reviewing these reconciliations for accuracy, completeness, cutoff, etc as well as reasonableness.. and then investigating substantial reconciling items, asking for explanations of variances from expectation, and detail testing supporting documentation.

So really, it's all just a matter of perspective. One side creates them, the other side reviews them. I know this from my own experience because when I first started out with my firm, that's one of the things I had to do, and from what I gathered when talking to clients and staff who prepared these documents, they tended to be the younger staff members. Of course there are exceptions and this might not apply to you, but this is what I've seen from my work.

 

[frinkanator]

but as many people here already think and have probably said, for someone who's never worked a day in the industry, you talk big.

I think you misunderstood him; he has little regard for anyone working in any corporation.
Seremify, have you forgotten? Trading his 2K positions (or maybe 10K with the help of a little leverage) obviously qualifies him as the expert on the entire finance industry.

Again hypocritical, you have attacked almost everything corporate and everyone working in said corporates, people who actually do work hard in respected firms.

It seems you all nicely have me narrowed down to a T. Your conclusions of me just reinforce all my points.

*moves away from the 'big boys' sandpit....resorts back to reading his paper, meeting with his 1st year dudes, "trading" mummy and daddies shares with his pretend associates*
"Mummy, maybe someday I could be like those cool guys on BoS...."
"Someday son, your time will come."

Happy hunting to you all and stay classy.

Cheers.

 

[seremify007]

As for working in a firm, after the time a person would have spent there you would now have the maturity to ignore comments from frinkanator. You will get them from any profession you go into, and need a much thicker skin. Fair enough your pointing out silly/biased comments, but just because people dont always say them doesnt mean they dont think them every day. When you meet an arts student whats your first reaction? When a law student meets a commerce student, whats their reaction?

If it was just to us on the street then sure that can be brushed off, but not when this is a forum which many high schoolers visit who have questions but no answers beyond what is on the corporate websites.

I guess what you said is right about the 'thinking' side of things- so kudos to Frinkanator for being the only one gutsy enough to actually say what he thinks (no matter how unfathomable) and allowing people who actually have worked in the industry to respond. Hopefully this debate might help someone (one day) when they have to decide whether or not they want to undertake say, a cadetship or a vacationer placement program.

 

[seremify007]

I didn't really want to add oil to the fire but...

Putting words into his mouth when he's just analysing ridiculous words out of yours. Note he hasn't attacked where you work, it's one way traffic for verbal barrages coming from your direction.

LOL. :rofl:

EDIT: Thanks for the laugh jpr333.

 

[Omnidragon]

It seems you all nicely have me narrowed down to a T. Your conclusions of me just reinforce all my points.

*moves away from the 'big boys' sandpit....resorts back to reading his paper, meeting with his 1st year dudes, "trading" mummy and daddies shares with his pretend associates*
"Mummy, maybe someday I could be like those cool guys on BoS...."
"Someday son, your time will come."

Happy hunting to you all and stay classy.

Cheers.

You're really impressive... do you drive an Aston Martin by any chance?

 

[:: ck ::]

big boys like him with contacts with brokers and who manage a large portfolio of one family, probably doesn't need a car

helicopter sounds about right