Advanced Science/Mathematics student research projects (1 Viewer)

[who_loves_maths]

I was asking a similar thing on the UNSW Faculty of Science forum as well. Any information is greatly appreciated.

I was wondering if anyone (in particular, BSc(Adv.) and BSc(Adv. Maths) students) knows anything about special research projects that are on offer to undergrad. students by the various departments in the Science faculty? (eg. like who to contact, the central coordinators, staff members involved, etc.)

By 'special projects' I mean a variety of possible extensions to the standard science courses available to BSc(Adv.) students.
Eg. extra reading-courses, research projects, additional lab-work, advanced units and courses, etc...

I was thinking in the area of Mathematics in particular… and possibly along with Physics or Chemistry projects as well.
If anyone can list the projects also that would be great!

I don’t attend USyd so I don't know a lot about this, but I'd imagine as part of the "Advanced Science" or "Advanced Maths" degrees, undergrad. students are frequently offered small individual research projects to complete under the supervision of some academic staff throughout their degrees?
Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Any suggestions, advice, and information regarding this are welcome.
Thanks ppl!

 

[tennille]

If you've done well enough in your HSC/university studies, than you may be eligible for the talented students program (tsp). Not all advanced science students are eligible, though.

For more information, see here.

 

[who_loves_maths]

Thanks Tennille. Although, I was asking specifically about the variety or kind of actual projects that are being offered at USyd... do they offer them over the summer holidays as well?

Cheers.

 

[withoutaface]

You're not gonna be doing much research in mathematics as an undergrad student. There's SSP, but probably more fun to just do some 2nd/3rd year units ahead of time.

 

[acmilan]

Yes, similar to the unsw, theres a vacation scholarship where you undertake a research project:

http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/PS/VacSchol.html

Haven't heard of any other type of research projects

 

[who_loves_maths]

Yes, similar to the unsw, theres a vacation scholarship where you undertake a research project:

http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/PS/VacSchol.html

Haven't heard of any other type of research projects

I see, thanks acmilan.

It's unfortunate that they don't offer any other mode of participating in these projects other than for people on a financial scholarship.

 

[who_loves_maths]

You're not gonna be doing much research in mathematics as an undergrad student. There's SSP, but probably more fun to just do some 2nd/3rd year units ahead of time.

Do you guys also get to do postgraduate units of study like the UNSW students? in second or third year.

And even though it might be interesting to do later year courses earlier, wouldn't it turn out pretty disastrous if you didn't have the foundation to cope with it?

 

[acmilan]

Do you guys also get to do postgraduate units of study like the UNSW students? in second or third year.

And even though it might be interesting to do later year courses earlier, wouldn't it turn out pretty disastrous if you didn't have the foundation to cope with it?

Quite a few 3rd year subjects at usyd don't require any previous knowledge, and they do allow the more talented first year students to undertake them. From memory, some subjects you can take are MATH3065 - Logic and Foundations and
MATH3067 - Information and Coding Theory

 

[Templar]

It's hard to do a proper research project through TSP in maths because you need a supervisor, and most people are unwilling to supervise anything lower than honours year.

 

[who_loves_maths]

Maybe your faculty (or TSP program coordinator) should make it clear to those unwilling staff members that "supervision" involves as much as just telling the student to learn everything him/herself and giving a few assignments out.
This really isn't much.
Whether or not someone 'fails' shouldn't be the supervisors fault anyway.

 

[who_loves_maths]

Does anyone know if the TSP runs through the summer break?
ie. are you guys offered advanced courses or research projects over the summer session as well? (without being a vacation scholar)

 

[velox]

Maybe your faculty (or TSP program coordinator) should make it clear to those unwilling staff members that "supervision" involves as much as just telling the student to learn everything him/herself and giving a few assignments out.
This really isn't much.
Whether or not someone 'fails' shouldn't be the supervisors fault anyway.

Grab a book and read it then.

 

[§eraphim]

1) Math lecturers have a heavy teaching load from 1st yr and 2nd yr. They don't have time to supervise a lot of students

2) You need to have a strong foundation to successfully learn new topics on your own, so coursework for the first couple of yrs is of more importance.

I think it would be difficult to compare research in Mathematics to say more experimental sciences such as Physics and Chemistry.

 

[Templar]

Maybe your faculty (or TSP program coordinator) should make it clear to those unwilling staff members that "supervision" involves as much as just telling the student to learn everything him/herself and giving a few assignments out.
This really isn't much.
Whether or not someone 'fails' shouldn't be the supervisors fault anyway.

Maybe you should learn what a supervisor actually does first before you embark on any project, as you don't understand what is required to run a successful project. It is certainly far more than just telling a student to read a book.

Most supervisors have ethics. They won't let you do a project without prerequisites if they think that you could do much better after doing the prerequisites.

And if you really want to argue this point, go talk to Dr Daniel Daners. He's nice and will tell you why it's just not feasible.

 

[who_loves_maths]

Most supervisors have ethics. They won't let you do a project without prerequisites if they think that you could do much better after doing the prerequisites.

Maybe you have too much faith in the perfect moral world that you seem to believe university lecturers live in.

It's been my experience that some (emphasis on "some") lecturers use the excuse of prerequisites as a facade, behind which their real reason is that they can't be bothered making that extra effort to ensure waiving the prerequisites isn't a problem for the student, nor that they need to spend a bit of unpaid time supervising the progress of a project for the benefit of a student.

Of course, this could just be the case at my home university alone.
But I doubt it.

But for your sake, I do hope that Sydney University is indeed the student-supervisor utopia, an ethical haven, which you probably envisage in your head.

 

[velox]

The real Frank is coming out now, rude and argumentative. Did you piss off all the lecturers at ANU?

Btw: Just curious, aren't there any programs at ANU suitable for you?

 

[who_loves_maths]

Grab a book and read it then.

Yes velox, that what people do when they wish to learn. That's what I and many other students have done for projects with minimal influence by our supervisors.

Isn't it such a hassle that in order to credit the work do we ourselves that we need to go through all the administrative bungle of listing them as projects or reading-courses and getting a supervisor who might do nothing but tell you what to read just to make in count on our transcripts?

The point is, most students don't do courses just for the namesake of "learning". We do it for the credit. But in order to do that, even for perfectly self-sustainable or self-sufficient projects, we are required by the university to get a supervisor in name.
Hence, sometimes you end up with a supervisor for a project that only requires him/her to tell you what to read.

Not all projects are time-consuming or tough on the 'supervisors'.


For all the theoretical courses you take, why not just grab the text and read it?
It's just the knowledge that counts right? Not whether or not you're formally enrolled in the course in name.
Too bad this isn't realistic.

 

[velox]

I really dont see what you are trying to achieve here. If you are so inclined to learn more then do some extra reading. It shouldnt matter whether it's 'credited' or not. I think you are being overly cynical and just moaning. Accept the situation and do something else with your spare time. Even academics have hobbies.

 

[withoutaface]

Does anyone know if the TSP runs through the summer break?
ie. are you guys offered advanced courses or research projects over the summer session as well? (without being a vacation scholar)

You're talking about research. As in breaking new ground. As in there aren't books with the solutions yet. As in the chances of a lecturer picking an unsolved problem that a first year can do are almost zilch, and the chances that they wouldn't be able to do it themselves are even lower.

 

[Templar]

I really dont see what you are trying to achieve here. If you are so inclined to learn more then do some extra reading. It shouldnt matter whether it's 'credited' or not. I think you are being overly cynical and just moaning. Accept the situation and do something else with your spare time. Even academics have hobbies.

I have to agree with that. Are you in for the knowledge, or are you just in to get credit points?

Why would anyone credit a course that just requires reading a textbook on your own and just repeat them? Research projects are mainly for original work, and at first and second year levels, as waf said, you simply don't have enough knowledge to do any proper research.

In addition, projects are easier to obtain in experimental sciences as you can just do the pracs for your supervisor's research. Most maths academics have their own specialties and will not supervise outside their field. Academics are there to research too, instead of just teaching, and why should they supervise you to "read a book"? Why don't you just enrol in a summer school subject for that? It teaches you from a book and counts for credit. Leave the academic's time to supervise more worthy and proper research projects.