Another reason why god doesn't exist (1 Viewer)

[Enteebee]

If he is brilliant he doesn't show it on radio interviews or in newspapers in my honest opinion... While I usually respect catholic/vatican arguments more, in Australia I think Peter Jensen wears the crown of the most respectable christian figurehead.

p.s. which is sad

 

[Tulipa]

If he is brilliant he doesn't show it on radio interviews or in newspapers in my honest opinion...

Agreed.

 

[katie_tully]

Yes, but Dogs also eat their own faeces

As do rabbits, but this is purely biological
Caecotrophs (or good bacteria) is in their poop, thats why they eat it.

 

[katie_tully]

Cardinal Pell is a brilliant man.

He stands up for what is right and isn't afraid to do so - exactly the type of leadership we need in the Church.

I have met him personally and I have read much of his work - truly a remarkable man.

He is Catholicisms' answer to Sheik Hilali

 

[katie_tully]

There are none.

He angers me very much. Infuriates even. And his idle threats on Catholic PMs? Ha, sounds like blackmail to me.

 

[jdevlin]

lol.

note how the guy that <3's pell couldnt give an example of why he's such a brilliant man.

He's read what he's written about theology...

Also Katie, his threat on MP's makes sense... because an MP who votes for abortion rights is going against biblical teachings, and just the same as if a person attending Church was homosexual, or sleeping around... they would be told to stop or leave...

But you're right, the way he said it wasn't the best way... he should have warned them first not to vote because of Church teachings

 

[katie_tully]

Also Katie, his threat on MP's makes sense... because an MP who votes for abortion rights is going against biblical teachings, and just the same as if a person attending Church was homosexual, or sleeping around... they would be told to stop or leave...

It's not his place to threaten MPs. Let their decision be on their conscience. He isn't Gods rottweiler, therefore he has no place judging their decisions or threatening them.

 

[katie_tully]

he should have warned them first not to vote because of Church teachings

If they were Catholic to begin with, I'm sure they were already well aware of the Church teachings.

 

[robbie1]

I got exactly what I was looking for.....

If people here agreed with me I'd be very worried. Cardinal Pell wouldn't be doing his job properly. Notice the similarities between how Jesus Christ was treated, and how Church leaders are treated & perceived in society?

Threatining MP's?.....please.....did he have a gun to their heads?.....since when do newspaper headlines tell the truth.

He was simply pointing out that they cannot receive Communion if they support something which is contrary to Church teaching.....if he didn't he would have failed in fulfilling his duty as our leader.

To whoever said he shouldn't have "run away" from the chasers....what do you expect? Should he shake their hands and say "thanks for shoving a camera in my face and asking me ridiculous questions."

As I said - I have actually met him - and have read much of his work - I think I am in a little bit of a better position to make a character assessment, no?

 

[katie_tully]

I think I am in a little bit of a better position to make a character assessment, no?

Short answer, no.
Long answer, no.

 

[jiggymcfizzle]

I watched a documentary once on twins, where one was homosexual and one was heterosexual. One boy had boy stuff in his room and the other boy just wanted pink and fairies scattered in his room.

I wasn't going anywhere with that...it was just an interesting watch.

Yeah saw that too. I think it was on 60 minutes or something. Wierd stuff. There's got to at least been some tendancy for homosexuality to be born into, but ack, who knows.

Ok... there's actually a miriad of questions here...

1) For starters alot of Christians except Evolution, so don't think that all are mindless nuts.

2) Sin is seperation from God... Satan entices us yes, but it is our fault for falling into temptation that is our sin. So essentially both are right, but only half the story. A part of a growing faith in Jesus is to learn to control urges through prayer - of course you can't control them all, but learning to control them is a part of maturity.

Ok thanks for that. That makes sense of things. Yeah controlling them is a royal pain. When I read the passage a while back about commiting adultery by looking at a woman lustfully I figured I was a sin machine. That one's just plain difficult, but when you've been with the one girl for 3 years it's something thats gotta be changed I guess.
Yeah I figured most christians are reasonable. It's just that these religious seminar people were just clueless or not nice at all. I could've made a better group leader. One of the guys said something like "I can't understand how evolution works, It doesn't make sense at all. but God makes sense, so it makes sense to follow that path" and to be honest I lost a bit of faith there. Then the other guy, oh that other guy. How I loath that other guy. He was saying that all these scientific facts aren't all true, like saying that they've found a dinosaur foot print along side a human one, dating back to the time of the dinosaurs. Having been a mega dinosaur nerd at the time, I got into a heated arguement with him since he was in fact a dirty liar, and I was accused of turning my back on God. Now that's just not nice. So twas good to get those answers from you, since they actually make sense and aren't a load of bull.

Yes, but Dogs also eat their own faeces...

Indeed they do. And how.

 

[robbie1]

Zimmerman - you say Jesus was crazy....well:

Consider the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew, chapters 5-7. Does this look to you like the ravings of a lunatic?

Read His deft answer to the people who wanted to catch Him in his words (Mark 12: 13-17).

Observe the brilliance and subtlety of His answer to those who wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery (John 8: 1-11).

This kind of savvy is hardly evidence of madness. No wonder people who tried to trick him were "astonished by his answer [and] became silent" (Luke 20:26).

His lucidity, sense of perspective and irony do not indicate madness, but great sanity.

Nor does His iron resolve to meet his fate look like madness. We never get the impression that He desires death; instead He believes himself to be commanded by God the Father to overcome death by giving His life "as a ransom for many" (1 Timothy: 2:6).

 

[Enteebee]

Also Katie, his threat on MP's makes sense... because an MP who votes for abortion rights is going against biblical teachings, and just the same as if a person attending Church was homosexual, or sleeping around... they would be told to stop or leave...

I didn't know churches were allowed to exclude gays, I would have figured discrimination... are you certain? Perhaps churches are given a special right, but unlike perhaps support for X political issue being a grounds for excommunication I can't imagine race/sexuality would be allowed.

The church is constantly changing an redefining itself. Pell is enforcing his own interpretation on others without allowing them to express there own interpretation of religion. Who is he to say his interpretation is absolutely correct?

Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/b...vi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html

 

[Enteebee]

Yeah dude Catholics are exempt from discriminiation, my sister's school held the vote for school captain yesterday and they were told not to vote for athiests or non-catholics and if they did their vote would be disqualified.

This is imo fair enough as there may be a "faith-based" part to the role of school captain that an atheist/non-catholic could not really fulfil.

 

[jdevlin]

"It's not his place to threaten MPs. Let their decision be on their conscience. He isn't Gods rottweiler, therefore he has no place judging their decisions or threatening them."

"If they were Catholic to begin with, I'm sure they were already well aware of the Church teachings."

I would say It's more of an accountability thing... It's not that It's a threat - you're right it's not a threat - but a high level of Church accountability. I would expect a brother in Christ to tell me stop looking at Pornography, or stop getting smashed every weekend - he would be holding me accountable to our sins.

He's more asking them to be not support something that the Church sees as sinful.

But yes, maybe the way he approached it was inappropriate

Robbie... it was me who said the way he handled the Chaser thing wasn't the best. I don't think he should have let them mock him, but running away didn't help. Turn the other cheek rings a bell... I don't know how he should have, but I don't think running away and essentiall calling them stupid was the best idea.

so clearly Pell has no regard for separation of church and state. would he accept the state meddling in his church's affairs? I think not.

Well that depends on meddling... he didn't say to ALL politicians you're damned, he just said to Catholic MP's that they wouldn't be able to take communion if they were voting for Abortion. Just as he would say "you cannot take communion if you're a practicing homosexual".

Exactly. The similarity is uncanny. Jesus was a nutjob aswell. "Look at me, I'm the son of God." The guy was a looney tune.

I do have to ask what you think classifies him as a nutjob? and who's to say that he wasn't the son of God? How do you know he wasn't? Like robbie said, doesn't sound insane in anything else he said. Why would a man who appears sane claim to be God's son... why not just claim to be God and take the whole cake? - also fulfilling 400+ prophecies sort of narrows it down ridiculously. I don't know about you. But I think it would be impossible for one man to normally fulfill 2 prophecies in the bible, let alone 400 of them. Remembering those prophecies were written thousands of years before he was born.

The church is constantly changing an redefining itself. Pell is enforcing his own interpretation on others without allowing them to express there own interpretation of religion. Who is he to say his interpretation is absolutely correct?

I wouldn't say so. The Catholic Church has remained at a pretty fixed point in terms of much of its philosophy for hundreds of years. Same with the Anglican Church - but the Anglican Church is a lot less centralised then the Catholic Church and something like the Sydney Diocese has changed a lot of its operational running and format to that of High Anglicanism... but the opinions are very much the same.

fair point. whoever brough it up is as moronic as a christian.

That's quite humurous... I'm as Moronic as what I am...

Holy crap a guy in a book dealing with problems that crop up as part of the narrative. My God, it's a literary epiphany!

What do you define as narrative. What amazing insight do you have into the Bible that makes you think It's narrative?

I didn't know churches were allowed to exclude gays, I would have figured discrimination... are you certain? Perhaps churches are given a special right, but unlike perhaps support for X political issue being a grounds for excommunication I can't imagine race/sexuality would be allowed.

It makes simple sense... I can't remember where it is in the bible for the life of me... It's one of the Epistles (books other then the first five of New Testament), and I think it's one of Paul's letters. I'll have to look it up...

But the passage is on expelling the immoral brother... essentially, you ask them to stop, because they are not living as a Christian should (includes homosexuality, sex outside of marriage - which the bible sees as the same -, corruption, greed - any sin really) then you ask them again, holding them accountable. You continue to pray and the likes... but if it gets to a point where the person refuses to stop, then it is obvious they are not truly accepting Christ's love, because they are not making an effort to reject their sins (works BECAUSE you are saved)

Yeah dude Catholics are exempt from discriminiation

Uh, you’ll probably find that’s not the case. It’s not that Catholics are exempt from discrimination, but I’d say it has something to do with school policy. If that happened at our local Catholic school there’d be a riot. I would more say it’s In school policy then Catholics being exempt from discrimination… If they were exempt from discrimination, there would be nothing stopping tem putting out anti-homosexual propaganda, and I don’t think that’s legally the case.

This is imo fair enough as there may be a "faith-based" part to the role of school captain that an atheist/non-catholic could not really fulfil.

I’d agree, but more the fact that Christians could turn to the school captains, who people in the younger years look up to, for faith questions… as well as other questions. Whereas an Atheist would probably be pretty uncomfortable being asked about whether prayer helps or not, because they’re inherent answer is no, because God can’t hear you, because he doesn’t exist…

I would hope that the Catholic Church, or any Church is not exempt from discrimination, that would undermine the very principle of the act!

 

[Stevo.]

Getting detention for reading a book is rather unjustified. Something I'd retaliate against.

 

[jdevlin]

Getting detention for reading a book is rather unjustified. Something I'd retaliate against.

So would I... I'm a Christian and I've read it, it's offensive but it's an interesting book with some interesting points...

 

[Stevo.]

Knowledge is freedom from ignorance and tyranny. Even though my opinion of the Holy Bible is that it's full of shit I'll still read it. I just can't find my copy from back when I went to Anglican church. Maybe I should go pinch one. ^___^

 

[katie_tully]

Getting detention for reading a book is rather unjustified. Something I'd retaliate against.

You should see the Church's list of banned books. It basically consists of everything except the Bible.

 

[Enteebee]

Whereas an Atheist would probably be pretty uncomfortable being asked about whether prayer helps or not, because they’re inherent answer is no, because God can’t hear you, because he doesn’t exist…

There are many secular arguments in favour of prayer that see it as a form of meditation.

I do have to ask what you think classifies him as a nutjob? and who's to say that he wasn't the son of God? How do you know he wasn't? Like robbie said, doesn't sound insane in anything else he said.

He claimed to have done many things which I only know of the insane/liars/self deluded claim to have done.

also fulfilling 400+ prophecies sort of narrows it down ridiculously. I don't know about you. But I think it would be impossible for one man to normally fulfill 2 prophecies in the bible, let alone 400 of them. Remembering those prophecies were written thousands of years before he was born.

Surely you realise there's complications with these... starting with the wide way in which they're interpreted with selection bias and the fact that many of these 'fulfilled prophesies' were realised post hoc? It's like nostrodamus.