Anti-poverty wristbands produced in sweatshops (2 Viewers)

[Sweets]

When someone says something like that, thats when you say "did you hear something?".

Thank you for that truly englighting post. Perhaps you should go work on your one liners now.

 

[monique66]

Just my two cents but without these manufacturers in these countries then there would be NO way that these people could afford anything at all. It sort of a catch 22 if you catch my drift.

 

[Mumma]

The only good thing about Live 8 is Pink Floyd.

agreed, thats exactly what ive been saying!

 

[Generator]

Just my two cents but without these manufacturers in these countries then there would be NO way that these people could afford anything at all. It sort of a catch 22 if you catch my drift.

It isn't as though a country would fail without a system that serves the international market in some way. Subsistence lifestyles are possible, and money (and the opportunity to purchase goods within a market framework) does not necessarily equate to opportunities for improvement (what you consider to be improvement, I should add).

As far as I'm concerned, the market has the potential to offer opportunities, provided that the trade that is conducted is 'fair'. The argument presented above isn't one that I consider to be worthy, particularly when those working in such conditions may well have been better off back on the land. I do realise that remaining on the land isn't always possible (or desireable), but that isn't to say that such working conditions (i.e., damnation's position) should be justified as being something rather than nothing.

 

[monique66]

It isn't as though a country would fail without a system that serves the international market in some way. Subsistence lifestyles are possible, and money (and the opportunity to purchase goods within a market framework) does not necessarily equate to opportunities for improvement (what you consider to be improvement, I should add).

As far as I'm concerned, the market has the potential to offer opportunities, provided that the trade that is conducted is 'fair'. The argument presented above isn't one that I consider to be worthy, particularly when those working in such conditions may well have been better off back on the land. I do realise that remaining on the land isn't always possible (or desireable), but that isn't to say that such working conditions (i.e., damnation's position) should be justified as being something rather than nothing.

I agree to the degree that if farming and rural lifestyles were possible in Africa. However, Africa's opportuities for expansion lie in its mining sector. If for instance, we talk about Asia it can be seen that often transnational corporations have helped countries eliviate debt. For instance the growth in South Korea has even established it as an advanced industrialised economy.

What i mean to say is that pulling these large companies out of poor nations won't solve anything without structural reform and the provision of jobs for those who previously held jobs with these companies.

 

[Generator]

I agree to the degree that if farming and rural lifestyles were possible in Africa. However, Africa's opportuities for expansion lie in its mining sector. If for instance, we talk about Asia it can be seen that often transnational corporations have helped countries eliviate debt. For instance the growth in South Korea has even established it as an advanced industrialised economy.

What i mean to say is that pulling these large companies out of poor nations won't solve anything without structural reform and the provision of jobs for those who previously held jobs with these companies.

Don't build TNCs (and the market) into something that they aren't, particularly when Asia's economic growth was hardly the product of the free-market as you seem to suggest. Also, even though I was not suggesting that such operations being pulled ('merely' regulated would be my position), I cannot see what leaving such TNCs (well, their outsourced operations) in the such countries will solve.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Wow that's really nice
You think I don't care about the African people because I think that sitting around doing pointless hopeful acts is stupid. Maybe I want a solution? The people dying in Africa aren't sitting there going "I don't care that I'm hungry, my family got killed by a tribal warlord and I won't probably live for much longer - But hey! Some rich people in the west bought a bracelet for me! WOO HOO!".

Can't you see that by merely hoping and not caring to look for real solutions all that you're doing is making yourself happy instead of fixing the problem?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Not that I agree with NTB on this issue, but this little piece by Moir seems to sum up his most valid point

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/07/03/4cartoon_gallery__550x307,0.jpg

 

[loquasagacious]

We did some work on this in political science. Live8-ness could fall under the category termed 'grief-lite'. That is that it entails a communual outlet of emotion, which lacks any real substance eg Diana, Schapelle etc etc.

Live8 is slightly different however entails an outlet of anger at the situation in Africa coupled with a desire to change it. However this being grief-lite and all, the emotions are only skin deep and triggered more by U2 than starving children as such whilst there is a desire for change there is no will to change. Individuals asume that having rocked out to U2 government will get along and fix it up in under a year.

The entire live8 phenomenon is also a product of our desire for instant gratification. Celebrities place an issue on the agenda people take up this issue and having held a mass gathering now expect government to take heed and fix everything by magic, in this case the magic is debt relief. Unfortunately debt relief is in itself largely misguided and pointless and will be ineffectual.

If further proof is needed, I ask you to find 1.2 Billion people who cared passionately about african debt and starving children before live8. I ask you to find even one billion people who still care passionately in a year. I ask you to find 1 billion people who in a years time will place the needs of africa (eg lowering of trade barriers) above the wants of domestic producers (eg the maintaining of raising of trade barriers).

Africa is a place we dream of fondly as a degarded colonial paradise, much like the old house on the beach we imagine that a fresh coat of paint and some modern utilities will fix it as good as new. Unfortunately much like the old house on the beach to fix it will take more money and time than we are willing to commit. Needs structural repairs and the eradication of white-ants more than a lick of paint. And so the old house on the beach will sit there generation after generation growing more and more delapidated. Each generation we will bravely declare that its time to fix it. Each generation we will grow disheartened and distracted and give up.

Its all well and good to declare proudly that there is a problem and that we should fix it. It is another thing entirely to have the will power and the strength of character to actually fix it. Unfortunately it is this will power and good character that I believe we lack, a lack that will doom Africa to suffer under a series of quick-fixes. An injection of aid here, some debt relief over here, some peacekeeping over there. These 'fixes' will at best maintain the status quo and more likely degrade Africa still further. Lasting change can only be affected by a lasting will to change.

I believe that Africa is one of the greatest tragedies this planet has ever seen and that there is much that we can do to help. However to affect lasting chnage we need a lasting commitment this is not something we can fix in a year, or even twenty. Fifty years would be a short time to have Africa on its feet. Debt relief is not a lasting commitment, debt relief is a new set of clothes for someone with severe lacerations. The will soon be bloodied and need replacing, the flow of blood must be stemmed. Debt-relief has been and will be ineffectual.

NB: Sorry rambled abit toward the end.

 

[katie_tully]

fuck you ntb

no, I was serious actually. At leats I care and am trying to do something. what are you doing? appart from making fun of me for thinking that we can, and should help these people.

How did I make fun of you sweetcheeks, I merely asked whether you were serious or not.
When you fall off your happy cloud come and let me know. :uhhuh: