Are aboriginal people helped too much? (2 Viewers)

[AlfStewart]

i mean thats a pretty big what if

 

[Jimmy Recard]

hahahahahaah

 

[AlfStewart]

hey you guys know glenn beck

well

what if he was

glenn

shrek

glenn

shrek

huh

i mean thats a pretty big what if

 

[Politic]

says who

people obviously agree and disagree and what is enough, which is why there's always controversy when you compare ATSi to non-ATSI people with same incomes and backgrounds.

removing race would be something i agree to in principle but its implementation would need looking at carefully..... its always going to be a balancing act.

 

[Politic]

what if abos and poor people were just naturally bad and theres not much you can do about most of them

then i guess you would treat them equally and not give one perks?

 

[AlfStewart]

what if you lived in a country where 95% of the population was abo

would you treat them equally if you werre of the belief that they were naturally retarded

 

[AlfStewart]

i mean thats a pretty big what if

 

[Jimmy Recard]

people obviously agree and disagree and what is enough, which is why there's always controversy when you compare ATSi to non-ATSI people with same incomes and backgrounds.

removing race would be something i agree to in principle but its implementation would need looking at carefully..... its always going to be a balancing act.

why what is so hard about it

apart from the fact it removes race based affirmative action which the apologists would h8

 

[tandem]

people obviously agree and disagree and what is enough, which is why there's always controversy when you compare ATSi to non-ATSI people with same incomes and backgrounds.

removing race would be something i agree to in principle but its implementation would need looking at carefully..... its always going to be a balancing act.

Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[AlfStewart]

guys

as far a s i know race based affirmative action barely exists in australia if it exists at alls

the only 'evidence' i have seen for it are occasional anecdotal claims made by people who allegedly know aboriginals who got into this course or that course at uni while having scores a whitey would not have been let into with

there are definitely jobs reserved for boongas hence why a trawl through any job site will reveal a million help wanted with ABORIGINAL / TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER ENCOURAGED TO REPLY but i hav no idea whether the people who advertise these positions will just accept any noongah who doesnt make the cut in these jobs (aka affirmative action) or they just want a qualified boonga ( so called positive discrimination but not affirmatiove action)

affirmative action is an extensively, near universally implemented practice on american campuses and american places of employment (now justified by the 1978 u-california vs bakke decision which uses the excuse of 'diversity' and race as supposedly one additional factor in applicant consideration as a backdoor to naked quotas) and ppl have a weird idea that everything that goes on in america must be going on here to the same degree and extent or at all

 

[Jimmy Recard]

nah but

 

[AlfStewart]

wat

 

[Jimmy Recard]

ur wrong

 

[AlfStewart]

yea maybe i am boong aa could be fairly extensive in this country im just skeptical to conclude much on the basis of heresay and anecdotes

 

[Lolsmith]

the good old days

also this picture is racism1

i bet that gave you the fattest chubb you have *ever* had

confirmed

 

[funkshen]

there is no mandatory affirmative action in the private sector, although many industries and business do have voluntary initiatives for aboriginal employment (especially big rural employers like mines and agriculture)

there is very little mandatory affirmative action in the public sector, and it mostly comprises regional employment plans in/around aboriginal communities (hire local abos for 6-12 months for a local initiative). a fair bit of public funding has moved to subsidising private aboriginal employment agencies.

boongs

 

[Politic]

why what is so hard about it

apart from the fact it removes race based affirmative action which the apologists would h8

you've answered your own question. POLITICALLY it would be extremely difficult.

 

[SylviaB]

i tell you what though

they can get fuckin $$$$ in scholarships and junk if they get a half-decent score

 

[katie tully]

This thread cracks me up, can't tell if srs.

I know some of you rage over anecdotes but I can't really illustrate my feelings without an anecdote (at the end). For the record, I disagree with most forms of welfare, but that's a separate story. I used to be fairly intolerant of abos and sort of still am, but really only Gen Y abos and beyond, the older generations I have a bit of sympathy for.

I don't know what the solution is, but it is clear that affirmative action has not had any sort of dramatic effect on lifespan, educational outcomes, socioeconomic outcomes or anything else that would satisfy the criteria of leveling dem abos up.

So my storyis; I was in Wilcannia for the day and was being guided around by this local Aboriginal man who had recently come back from the big smoke. Wilcannia has about idk 1200 people, a school, a hospital, a grocery store that sells staples for exorbitant amounts, an employment agency (lol), Country Energy, a council and a petrol station and a police station that houses about 11 police. Serious.

Anyway so this guys job is to spend all day every day driving around checking on the local people, taking them to doctors appointments, delivering medication, general liaising etc. He was telling us as we drove the streets all the problems the community faces; alcoholism, suicide, depression, domestic violence, poverty, drugs, etc.

What happens is:
1. If the kids finish school (most of them don't), one of two things happen. They move away to find better job prospects, or they stay in town. Invariably, most that leave town come back within a few years because their lack of education has made it impossible for them to gain employment. Most come back with a drug habit, and import drugs into the town.
2. The suicide rate in Wilcannia is the highest in NSW for men aged 16-30. This was quite sad to hear, but having been in the town for 2 hours it made a lot of sense. It just gives you this overwhelming sense of depression just being there. The isolation, the boredom.
3. If they don't neck themselves, they form alcohol problems. The Golf Club is the only place in town that sells alcohol. In order to curb alcoholism and alcohol fueled violence, the club (which is run by aboriginal elders) only sells light strength beer after 2pm and stops at 10pm or something idk
4. Domestic violence like u don't even believe

Anyway so the problem is, the guy was saying, was that everybody is aware of the problems. There is a community group of elders and respected men/women who are trying to find ways to help their people, because you have to understand that there is a deep mistrust of white people and tbh for good reason.

The guy (he was like maybe late 40s?) detailed how when he was a kid, black fellas weren't allowed (kids) and adults were only allowed in town to get groceries and then leave again. Kids didn't go to school, if you were an adult and were found "loitering" in town, you went were arrested or flogged. He was saying that his grandmother lived down along the Darling, but when white settlers/farmers came, a lot of the Aboriginals were displaced. Many of them ended up working for the farmers during the boom time (google Wilcannia's wool history like woah) but when the boom went bust, and the farmers left the area in hoardes, what was left was a group of people who had become dependent on white man to survive because, well in all honesty, their land had been stolen, and now they had nothing.

Anyway epic story is epic, but I guess what I am trying to say is that for every Wilcannia, there is another town just like it. A lot of the bad shit happened a long time ago, but it was still only recently that Aboriginals were treated like second class citizens. You can't expect dramatic improvements from a group of people that until the 60s, didn't have the right to vote, weren't allowed or were segregated in schools, were forced to leave school by age 12, etc etc.

Clearly the answer is a push from welfare and an emphasis in education, but the poverty and depravity is so firmly entrenched that I don't know how this is achieveable.

As somebody has already said??? I really don't know how else it can be done without removing children from families.

 

[katie tully]

Also the whole jobs created for Aboriginals is part of the problem, because the standards are so disgustingly low they're really shooting themselves in the foot.

So if we look at the health sector, if you're Aboriginal and you've managed to be given a Cert 4 (which you get for free coz you're abo) in Aboriginal Health, you can get a job as a Abo Health Worker (non grad) which allows you to do shit that *other people* had to go to uni for 3 years to do. It doesn't make them more competent, in fact it has created a whole community of incompetent, lazy Abos who aren't doing anything to improve the health outcomes for their people. Their idea of promoting health is to disappear for 6 hours, having a cuppa with cuz.

If you're sort of competent, they'll give you a degree in Health Science which is a nothing degree but the unis happily offer it because they fill their abo quota. I know someone who got this degree and bitch is barely able to tie her own shoelaces, so idk.