Are most top ATAR scorers at private schools scholarship students, brought in to boost exam results? (1 Viewer)

Beyblader

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I’m wondering, as I have no knowledge about it, if most /nearly all of the top ATAR scores at elite private schools scored by students on academic scholarships or do non scholarship students ever get the top marks also?

I presume private schools that offer academic scholarships do so to raise their academic profile /published results to improve their reputation and attract fee paying students. Also the scholarship students will raise the academic standard and raise the level of competition at the school which will raise the level for many other students also.

But presumably these scholarship students are amongst the brightest students in the country and would have done well at any school.

I wonder how much the scholarship students distort the true academic level of teaching at a school?
 

dasfas

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I’m wondering, as I have no knowledge about it, if most /nearly all of the top ATAR scores at elite private schools scored by students on academic scholarships or do non scholarship students ever get the top marks also?

I presume private schools that offer academic scholarships do so to raise their academic profile /published results to improve their reputation and attract fee paying students. Also the scholarship students will raise the academic standard and raise the level of competition at the school which will raise the level for many other students also.

But presumably these scholarship students are amongst the brightest students in the country and would have done well at any school.

I wonder how much the scholarship students distort the true academic level of teaching at a school?
I went to SydGrammar and no, not really.

a) Not that many scholarships are given out

b) These scholarships are awarded in year 7. Success in year 7 I would argue is loosely correlated with success in year 12. Some of the people on scholarships were brilliant, in fact most were, but also others you would have been surprised that they were on a full scholarship. That's not to say they weren't intelligent, but they perhaps weren't taking school as seriously, and we all know that intelligence is only part of the equation when it comes to doing well academically.

What brings everyone up is the competition (usually non toxic, it's more that everyone takes exams seriously and works hard). At SGS, I think ~30 get an ATAR of > 99. There are significantly less scholarships than that awarded than that.

So overall, I would think they distort it minimally. Some are definitely super bright, some are probably also bright, but don't try very hard and are eclipsed by those who do so.
 

Drongoski

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Sydney Grammar may be an exception. Its scholarships are partial(not full fee relief) scholarships. It is also a selective independent school. It can afford to not dish out scholarships, because it is already a sought-after private school. Many of the richer private schools that can afford it buy performance-boosters by giving out scholarships. I've been curious what percentage of these schools' top performers are non-scholarship students. My feeling is most of their top performers are imports.
 
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black.mamba

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Sydney Grammar may be an exception. Its scholarships are partial scholarships. It is also a selective independent school. It can afford to not dish out scholarships, because it is already a sought-after private school. Many of the richer private schools that can afford it buy performance-boosters by giving out scholarships. I've been curious what percentage of these schools' top performers are non-scholarship students. My feeling is most of their top performers are imports.
partial scholarships???
 

black.mamba

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I went to SydGrammar and no, not really.

a) Not that many scholarships are given out

b) These scholarships are awarded in year 7. Success in year 7 I would argue is loosely correlated with success in year 12. Some of the people on scholarships were brilliant, in fact most were, but also others you would have been surprised that they were on a full scholarship. That's not to say they weren't intelligent, but they perhaps weren't taking school as seriously, and we all know that intelligence is only part of the equation when it comes to doing well academically.

What brings everyone up is the competition (usually non toxic, it's more that everyone takes exams seriously and works hard). At SGS, I think ~30 get an ATAR of > 99. There are significantly less scholarships than that awarded than that.

So overall, I would think they distort it minimally. Some are definitely super bright, some are probably also bright, but don't try very hard and are eclipsed by those who do so.
at grammar, most 99+ come from non-scholarships as @dasfas said (also there are ~50 99+ per year now)
fun fact: of the top 20 at grammar in my yr, only 5 were on scholarships (and only 3 were academic scholars)

grammar is def an exception though; at most other private schools, top atars predominantly come from scholars
 

Beyblader

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I’m sure Sydney Grammar would be an exception as it’s selective so all the kids should do well and the existing students may include some that would have got a scholarship if they had applied at other schools.

for the non-selective private schools I think A lot of patents will take academic performance into account when selecting a school so I wonder how misguided they will be if the results are very distorted by scholars. I presume most of the high scoring scholars are very studious types that have extensive coaching outside of the private school so there the schools top ATAR results may simply be a reflection of their scholars intelligence/work ethic combined with the external coaching they undertake and nothing to do with the privateschool who I suspect might actually be hindering them and causing them to have a lower ATAR than they would have if they had gone to a selective school instead?
Do you think that’s correct?
 

idkkdi

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I’m sure Sydney Grammar would be an exception as it’s selective so all the kids should do well and the existing students may include some that would have got a scholarship if they had applied at other schools.

for the non-selective private schools I think A lot of patents will take academic performance into account when selecting a school so I wonder how misguided they will be if the results are very distorted by scholars. I presume most of the high scoring scholars are very studious types that have extensive coaching outside of the private school so there the schools top ATAR results may simply be a reflection of their scholars intelligence/work ethic combined with the external coaching they undertake and nothing to do with the privateschool who I suspect might actually be hindering them and causing them to have a lower ATAR than they would have if they had gone to a selective school instead?
Do you think that’s correct?
selective schools hinder academic performance lmfao.

in my experience, quite a few 'not the best' teachers, and everyone goes tutoring.
Top selective school students would honestly score higher ATARs not going to school at all imo. The bulk of the learning is before class from tutoring lmfao.
 
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idkkdi

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I’m wondering, as I have no knowledge about it, if most /nearly all of the top ATAR scores at elite private schools scored by students on academic scholarships or do non scholarship students ever get the top marks also?

I presume private schools that offer academic scholarships do so to raise their academic profile /published results to improve their reputation and attract fee paying students. Also the scholarship students will raise the academic standard and raise the level of competition at the school which will raise the level for many other students also.

But presumably these scholarship students are amongst the brightest students in the country and would have done well at any school.

I wonder how much the scholarship students distort the true academic level of teaching at a school?
just a note on teaching quality.

30k+ a yr schools get good teachers coming from selective schools/kinda poached. Vice versa does not really happen, so you can expect expensive private school teaching to be better.
 
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CM_Tutor

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The same answers applied when I was at SGS some years ago - not many scholarship holders. The only scholarship I saw offered except from year 7 was a music scholarship given as part of an arrangement to transition to a different instrument.

On teaching quality, it is important to remember that someone may be an effective teacher for A but not be a good "fit" for B. There are some teachers who are effective but unpopular because they have a strict style that means that atmosphere is rarely light / relaxed (say). I had teachers that I would happily have interacted with socially, and others that I would be disinclined to... but that doesn't mean the latter were necessarily "bad" teachers on the academic side.
 

s97127

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selective schools hinder academic performance lmfao.

in my experience, quite a few 'not the best' teachers, and everyone goes tutoring.
Top selective school students would honestly score higher ATARs not going to school at all imo. The bulk of the learning is before class from tutoring lmfao.
agreed. Students who pass SGS scholarship test also go to tutoring. They would go to this guy who got 296 in SS test and 100% scholarship to SGS :)

 

Alistruggles

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I got into private school (typically ranking low 20s in the state) on a full academic scholarship and I can say this is probably not the norm because I am an embarrassment to all academic scholarship holders (and its a miracle my school has kept me) but I am definitely not going to get a top score.

Having stopped maintaining a focus on study since Year 7, I’m currently on track to get 95 with minimum effort, and 97-98 if I revamp my work habits/find motivation. Typically, ~9 students at my school get 99+.

MOST of the top mark scorers at my school are simply hard workers who aren’t on scholarships. Many of them have been at the school since kindigarden. It’s not uncommon for some students have both parents as doctors, some people just have really insane work ethic.
 

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