Arts or Commerce? (1 Viewer)

[adamsaclown]

not that I have much to do with this thread, but Lainee, I like your reasoning, you should become a good lawyer one day.

 

[c_james]

Um.. like everyone at UNSW does Comm/Law because of it's prestige/uai/parents.

All three are pretty stupid reasons.

And Lainee, I see where you're coming from. Fair enough. I've always wanted to pursue a PhD in history or something similar, so a BA was the natural choice for me. That said, I guess there are a lot of careerists out there. Nothing wrong with that, in principle anyway.

 

[Bobness]

actually i believe it has a lot to do with the uni.

if you're at unsw which is renowned for its commerce program then choosing this in a one-two combo with law would be quite logical and even complementary.

however, if you're at usyd where the arts faculty is more diverse and well-rounded (not to mention rather eminent) than i would believe choosing arts would be as suitable (if not more so) as commerce in a law double-degree.

also if one still wished to

appreciate the functioning of the economy

then the right electives chosen for law would enable you to do just that



i think .. i hate stereotypes as well but this is the most balanced view i've come up with from reading through diff uni guides

hmm and i still wouldn't mind doing BA/LLB at unsw either. but sometimes you have to be realistic

 

[c_james]

actually i believe it has a lot to do with the uni.

if you're at unsw which is renowned for its commerce program then choosing this in a one-two combo with law would be quite logical and even complementary.

however, if you're at usyd where the arts faculty is more diverse and well-rounded (not to mention rather eminent) than i would believe choosing arts would be as suitable (if not more so) as commerce in a law double-degree.

also if one still wished to then the right electives chosen for law would enable you to do just that



i think .. i hate stereotypes as well but this is the most balanced view i've come up with from reading through diff uni guides

hmm and i still wouldn't mind doing BA/LLB at unsw either. but sometimes you have to be realistic

This is true. No offence to the UNSW Arts faculty, but we have so many leaders in fields that it's just ridiculous. My history lecturer this semester had published about five or so books, and my tutor, who hadn't even finished his PhD, had two in the works. These guys know their shit. I'm also pretty sure that a lot of the cutting-edge research in utilitarianism (a branch of philosophy, specifically metaethics) was done by USyd alumni/former staff.

 

[charlie_charlie]

Hm, my history tutor at unsw have published several works too. actually all of my lecturers at unsw arts have had works published; I think its a pre-requisitie for most academics.

but usyd definitely has the edge over unsw in terms of arts subjects though - but it really depends on ten million different other factors you have to work into your decision as to which uni you want to go to. that's not to say BA/LLB at unsw is in anyway bad ...

but for me anyway, I was in similar arts/commerce/law dilemma at the end of yr12, and the reason why I chose arts over commerce was simply that, when it came down to it, I would be more upset about having no history in my life over having no accounting. commerce would have given me more employability, in terms of my choice in being able to move into the commerce sector, but the fantastic thing about BA/LLB is that you have the choice of having subjects to study out of interest, with the added security of having greater employability in the end of degree. AND if you so desire, you can learn about the functioning of the economy through first year economics or major in political science without having to do the compulsory subjects of accounting, finance etc. Looking back, I don't regret my decision to choose the BA/LLB combination at all!

AND i'm asian & have all the stereotypical features of an UNSW Comm/Law student, with the crazy parents to boot. It is possible!

 

[bustinjustin]

@The_Apprentice - I got the impression that you were somewhat...aghast at my comments, but just to clarify, the implication was that Arts students were more interesting than Commerce students.

@Lainee - if you were referring to my comments then, yeah, they were like, totally said in jest...

To put in in another perspective, mixing dense, law readings with a bit of 'light' reading on philosophy, art history or languages might mean you'll emerge from your 5-6 year stint at uni with your sanity slightly more intact. You might actually go to a lecture or two out of interest, because many Commerce lectures suck to the core (mind you, Lainee has more authority to say this)

In the end, it doesn't really matter, when serving up your qualifications to prospective employers, the law component will generally be the main dish, with arts or commerce a mere garnish. Either way, its the high marks and honours, especially first class, that make you irresistable.

 

[_dhj_]

Without doing an Arts degree I can still appreciate beautiful writing. Without a Commerce degree, I won't be able to appreciate the functioning of the economy. As you said, it's pragmatic reasoning, though quite logical considering that most people have limited time in which they want to dedicate towards university study (unless you're like me and plan to go into academia), and limited money to put to that end.

totally agree.

I knew some people who did Law and Commerce just because they thought it sounds more academic, but they didn't really know what they wanted from a commerce degree. It's silly.

Imo BA/LLB sounds more prestigous and therefore "more academic", whereas BCom/LLB sounds more vocational.

 

[Mountain.Dew]

you dont necessarily need to do a BA in order to aquire skills in good writing, analysis and reading. this is where, i feel, the law component takes over. sure, arts would be good if you enjoy your humanities, but it most likely it wouldnt give you food on the table, unless you can make a business or a living out of it.

i agree with Lainee - the pragmatic side took over and i chose to do Commerce instead. and besides, if you really crash and burn doing law, theres commerce to back you up and have a better chance of a well-paid job than arts.

 

[Bobness]

totally agree.

Imo BA/LLB sounds more prestigous and therefore "more academic", whereas BCom/LLB sounds more vocational.

what do you mean by vocational? this is what answers told me

vo·ca·tion·al (vō-kā'shə-nəl)

adj.

1. Of or relating to a vocation or vocations: vocational counseling.
2. Relating to, providing, or undergoing training in a special skill to be pursued in a trade: vocational students learning to operate a lathe.

now i seriously have no idea what that means so .. little help

oh and wouldn't people do law with the sole purpose of getting into a legal/litigation job?

i mean if you were gonna fall back on your commerce degree (or even doubt your capabilities in law which i'm sure shouldn't be a prob for you MD ) then you should just do a straight Bcomm.

your second degree should be decided by which area of law you wish to enter. corporate and commercial law would find Bcomm a major help whereas juris prudentia would definitely find philosophy or analytical subjects such as history and english (i.e. BA) to be more more useful.

 

[c_james]

i mean if you were gonna fall back on your commerce degree (or even doubt your capabilities in law which i'm sure shouldn't be a prob for you MD ) then you should just do a straight Bcomm.

Exactly. Anyone who does Law just because they think it'll look swanky on their resume really shouldn't be doing it.

Oh, and vocation is just a fancy word for career.

On a further note, about the 'being able to learn philosophy and history in my own time' argument, reading something yourself and studying it at university level are two totally different things.

 

[Bobness]

On a further note, about the 'being able to learn philosophy and history in my own time' argument, reading something yourself and studying it at university level are two totally different things.

I take the opportunity to endorse this event or product for its esteemed values.

Very correct i say

 

[_dhj_]

i mean if you were gonna fall back on your commerce degree (or even doubt your capabilities in law which i'm sure shouldn't be a prob for you MD ) then you should just do a straight Bcomm.

If you're just doing a straight Bcom, you only have a primary degree and therefore don't actually have a degree to "fall back on".

 

[_dhj_]

oh i meant if you didn't think you'd be using your LLB degree in the future...

then a straight Bcomm should solve your problems. less things to worry about and you can start earning money earlier

Obviously.

I think most comm/law students intend to go down a law career path though.

 

[bustinjustin]

but already the mindset of 'falling back on law' is not .. optimal is it?

iono i don't want to get into semantics but say for e.g. the hsc i feel choosing your best 10 units and performing your best for these is preferable to choosing 12 units to have something to 'fall back on' because less time will be devoted to each unit

of course it all changes if you're only in a class cause you have a hawt friend. bahahaha

I stand corrected of course, but 'falling back on law' is vastly different to 'falling back on 12 units'. It's probably best that you disregard that phrase 'falling back on law' - instead of thinking in those terms, consider a legal qualifcation as a spare key that keeps options in the legal profession open, even if you don't intend on going down that path, and it's not a bad key to have either. Let's look at exhibit A - my Political Economy Tutor from last semester. He's in the process of (hopefully) completing his phd but intends to do law afterwards. Notwithstanding his reluctance to finally leave uni and get a real job, a wife and kids, he wants to put to use his knowledge about how the system screws people over by using said knowledge to do just that as a lawyer.

Moreover, once in a while, this 'key' to a career in law sometimes opens other doors to other careers. Law is increasingly becoming a generalist degree used by Arts and Social Science graduates to give themselves an edge over those without a law degree, in the arenas of policy work, for example. Of course, it doesn't always work out like this, many end up working in law anyway just to earn a living, and many eventually leave in droves to write bestsellers, freelance, or join the circus.

Most law students are female, and a significant number are drop dead gorgeous. But I'm sure you'll have plenty other reasons to do law, if you choose to still do so.

 

[Bobness]

Most law students are female, and a significant number are drop dead gorgeous. But I'm sure you'll have plenty other reasons to do law, if you choose to still do so.

REALLY?

hawt

or maybe not. there's a stereotype going around that many of the female lawyers (and students for that matter) are dominatrixes, feminists, very argumentative and expect the man to still to be the breadwinner even if they're profession is clearly not as esteemed as their own.

but then i'm sure they're not all like that

 

[michaeln36]

This question goes to the very core what you values you hold dear:

Minimal class time = Arts
Something employable = Commerce
Something enjoyable = Arts
Asian background = Commerce
Socialist = Arts
Capitalist = Commerce
Rigid Course Struture with units specified = Commerce
Freedom to do everything, anything, including jack all = Arts

Go through list, see what result you get, follow that, if not your heart.

ROFL GOOD ONE!! (true and funny!)

i want something employable, im not of asian background (but most of my friends are asian), im a capatalist, and im definetly doing commerce !


Having a commerce degree is not only good to 'fall back on' but it opens up many jobs (combined with law) that arts doesn't. All large companies have legal departments, but they want their lawyers to be founded in the runnings of buisiness etc. so they want them to have a commerce degree also. In the commercial-law field commerce comes in heaps handy, wheras arts hardly opens up a single new field (..ahh but it opens ur mind --- how cliched ). Heaps of managers and CEOs are law/commerce people. It allows you not to just be confined to being a solicitor or barrister, it allows you to go into the business and commercial side of law.

AND NO! a few buisness law subjects in your law course, or a few subjects on the 'sociology of buisness' or the 'sociology of profit making' in your arts degree DOES NOT equip you for business work!

But obviously it comes down to preference.
Arts may help you to 'learn' better and write better, giving you skills indirectly needed for jobs. But commerce equips you with skills that are directly used in jobs.

 

[nessyfreak]

the real question you need to ask is can you really get 99.6???? once you get that then you can decide on commerce or arts.

 

[adambra]

you're already pretty much a pompous fag without making into law let alone uni atm.

its people like you who make me reconsider whether law is the right path for me.

And make me reconsider commerce...

 

[turtleface]

oh man...

I'd like to add some points:

• (this is a stereotype: )Keep in mind that arts people are usually in the centrelink line, both during and after their degree program. However:
• A BCom is not a pre-requisite for a successful career in business. If you really want to get into business, but want to do a BA, then go do a MBA after graduation (or according to brogan,MBgAy). (Some unis have combined grad law and MBA for a 3 year course)
• A commerce degree equips grads with skills to service business. You do not become a business person by doing a Commerce degree. i.e. An Accountant services Business. A Banker services business. An actuary services business. etc.
• If you want to join a big law firm as a solicitor, having a business background would be good, since you service companies and high net worth people . But obviously this is not essential. I think the managing partner of Mallesons (biggest law firm) has a BA/LLB

Some adhoc points:

• To the person who mentioned lawyers going "object" all day, there are many lawyers who don't step into a court room in their entire careers.
• To the person who said "Heaps of managers and CEOs are law/commerce people", the most common qualification amongst ASX 200 companies in Australia is an Accounting qualification. Most do not have law.
• And to the other accounting baggers, stop bagging accounting, who else will count your beans?
• The highest paid CEO (Moss) in Australia has a BA/LLB however he majored in Economics for his arts degree.

One last point I'll make is when I was in high school, I remember reading in the paper one day something about uni and degrees and jobs or something, and I recall there was this one dude who was quoted as "I have a MA (masters of arts) but I'm a waiter cause I can't get employed".
I was shocked at the time. Needless to say I now perfectly understand why that was the case for him now.

 

[Bobness]

turtleface you're biased and you know it. your species bury themselves under a hard shell and are slow as when they try to make their way in this world.

anything combined with law really is legit, because you are almost certainly looking towards the law side if you've selected this double degree