# atar explanation please (1 Viewer)

##### Well-Known Member
can someone please explain what the differences between the marks we receive are and whether we receive our actual marks from the hsc? also is it true that your external mark is half of the person who recieved your internal ranks... im confused lol

#### zizi2003_

##### Well-Known Member
I still don't understand that all^ + what alignment/moderation do...
@jimmysmith560

##### Well-Known Member
ur hsc exam mark/external contributes to 50% of ur atar, ur internal rank becomes another person's hsc exam mark that has the same external rank which contributes to the other 50% of ur atar

#### icycledough

##### Well-Known Member
So your school will submit internal marks and ranks to NESA, and these are called assessment marks. These are then adjusted through a process called moderation; thus, why internal ranks are very important, not so much the actual mark. External raw marks constitute your exam mark, and go through a process called scaling based on the difficulty and performance in the exam by the entire state. So for example, a raw mark of 83 in 4U maths may scale to a 94-95, hypothetically. Your school's aggregate sum of exam marks = aggregate of assessment marks. 50% of your ATAR is made up of your assessment mark and the remaining 50% is made up of your exam mark, giving you a HSC mark.

I believe the person who comes first in internals gets the highest external mark, the person who comes last in internals gets the lowest external mark and everything in between will get a moderated internal mark similar to the respective rank in the external exams.

This is a basic summary, but I'm sure @jimmysmith560 can give you a more in-depth answer.

#### zizi2003_

##### Well-Known Member
So your school will submit internal marks and ranks to NESA, and these are called assessment marks. These are then adjusted through a process called moderation; thus, why internal ranks are very important, not so much the actual mark. External raw marks constitute your exam mark, and go through a process called scaling based on the difficulty and performance in the exam by the entire state. So for example, a raw mark of 83 in 4U maths may scale to a 94-95, hypothetically. Your school's aggregate sum of exam marks = aggregate of assessment marks. 50% of your ATAR is made up of your assessment mark and the remaining 50% is made up of your exam mark, giving you a HSC mark.

I believe the person who comes first in internals gets the highest external mark, the person who comes last in internals gets the lowest external mark and everything in between will get a moderated internal mark similar to the respective rank in the external exams.

This is a basic summary, but I'm sure @jimmysmith560 can give you a more in-depth answer.
Is there a document that happens to list what the different raw marks for each subject approx. scale to?

#### specificagent1

##### Well-Known Member
So your school will submit internal marks and ranks to NESA, and these are called assessment marks. These are then adjusted through a process called moderation; thus, why internal ranks are very important, not so much the actual mark. External raw marks constitute your exam mark, and go through a process called scaling based on the difficulty and performance in the exam by the entire state. So for example, a raw mark of 83 in 4U maths may scale to a 94-95, hypothetically. Your school's aggregate sum of exam marks = aggregate of assessment marks. 50% of your ATAR is made up of your assessment mark and the remaining 50% is made up of your exam mark, giving you a HSC mark.

I believe the person who comes first in internals gets the highest external mark, the person who comes last in internals gets the lowest external mark and everything in between will get a moderated internal mark similar to the respective rank in the external exams.

This is a basic summary, but I'm sure @jimmysmith560 can give you a more in-depth answer.
i think what you're referring to here for external marks is alignment. scaling is a different thing.

#### jimmysmith560

##### Le Phénix Trilingue
Moderator
Let's begin by discussing a student's HSC results (those they receive as part of an email from NESA). We will first consider NESA's terminology. To do so, consider the following example:

There are 3 important terms that are relevant to our discussion, each of which must be understood correctly, so that the student fully understands their results once they receive them:
• The Examination Mark refers to a student's external mark (i.e. your mark in the HSC exam for each respective subject). This mark is subject to alignment.
• The Assessment Mark/Grade refers to a student's internal mark. This mark is subject to the moderation process.
• The HSC Mark is the student's final mark for a particular subject. This mark is the average of the student's Assessment Mark and Examination Mark. In this example, the student's Assessment Mark for Mathematics Extension 2 is 84, and their Examination Mark is 80. Therefore, their HSC Mark is
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/png.latex?\bg_white%20\left(\frac{84+80}{2}\right)=82&hash=abbf7918733ee87207df356e55ee038d$
. The HSC Mark is the mark that will be used to determine a student's ATAR.
Now that we understand the meaning of each term, let's move on to how the Examination Mark and the Assessment Mark marks are determined. We will then explore the process of scaling.

Examination Mark - Alignment:

When a student completes an HSC exam, their paper is then marked. The original mark that is recorded on that paper with no adjustments of any kind is called a raw mark. NESA does not inform students of their raw marks. However, should you wish to know your raw marks, you can request them from NESA:

Raw marks are aligned, meaning that they are modified/adjusted. This modification/adjustment results in an aligned mark. NESA informs students of their aligned marks as their Examination Marks. Most of the time, this works in the favour of students, as it can result in favourable Examination Marks. It is important to note that your own Examination Mark in a particular subject is based on your performance. It is not affected by factors such as your rank relative to your cohort or your school rank. Let's take a look at an example involving 2020 raw mark and aligned mark data for English Advanced:

Alignment data for several subjects can be accessed using https://rawmarks.info/

The Examination Mark contributes 50% of a student's HSC mark for a particular subject.

Assessment Mark - Moderation (followed by alignment):

While different schools set assessment tasks/exams that are based on the same syllabus, the way in which those tasks are designed, and the way they are marked may be different. The moderation process adjusts students' Assessment Marks so that they can be fairly compared across the state. This adjustment is done using 2 elements:
• a student's rank relative to their cohort in a particular subject
• The Examination Marks achieved by the student's cohort in a particular subject.
Examination Marks are the only component that would allow NESA to achieve this fairness because the only task that all students complete that is exactly the same and is marked in exactly the same way is the HSC exam.

Essentially, the highest Assessment Mark is adjusted to equal the highest Examination Mark of any student in a school cohort. Similarly, the lowest Assessment Mark is adjusted to equal the lowest Examination Mark of any student in a school cohort. In the case of other ranks, the Assessment Mark will not equal its equivalent Examination Mark. However, it will be similar. Consider the following example from NESA:

As you can see, the highest Assessment Mark was adjusted to equal the highest Examination Mark (92). The lowest Assessment Mark was also adjusted to equal the lowest Examination Mark (50). However, the Assessment Mark for the student ranked third (74) is not identical to the third-highest Examination Mark (72), although it is similar.

If a school submits assessment marks with two (or more) students ranked first, then the top moderated assessment mark will equal the average of the two (or more) highest exam marks for the school group. This also applies if students tie on the bottom assessment mark.

What all of this suggests is that ranking as highly as possible relative to your cohort is the best way of maximising your Assessment Mark in a particular subject, which can only be achieved through favourable performance in your school-based assessment tasks/exams.

Following the moderation process, the Assessment Mark is also aligned, just like the raw mark relevant to the Examination Mark (as explained above).

The Assessment Mark contributes 50% of a student's HSC mark in a particular subject.

The scaling process:

It is a common occurrence to refer to alignment and its effect as scaling. Alignment (which was explained above) and scaling should not be confused as they mean different things.

To avoid complicating matters, scaling is the process of taking HSC marks and standardising them across different subjects. Scaling is performed by UAC and allows results in different subjects to be compared with one another so as not to disadvantage students based on their subject selections or school system. Scaling works by standardising HSC marks so students who complete different courses can be ranked against each other for the purposes of creating an ATAR. As you may already know, moderation and alignment are performed by NESA, and this is done prior to UAC's scaling process, which makes sense as HSC marks need to first be determined before UAC can use them to determine students' ATAR's.

I hope this helps!

#### iwanttodogoodinschool

##### Well-Known Member
Let's begin by discussing a student's HSC results (those they receive as part of an email from NESA). We will first consider NESA's terminology. To do so, consider the following example:

There are 3 important terms that are relevant to our discussion, each of which must be understood correctly, so that the student fully understands their results once they receive them:
• The Examination Mark refers to a student's external mark (i.e. your mark in the HSC exam for each respective subject). This mark is subject to alignment.
• The Assessment Mark/Grade refers to a student's internal mark. This mark is subject to the moderation process.
• The HSC Mark is the student's final mark for a particular subject. This mark is the average of the student's Assessment Mark and Examination Mark. In this example, the student's Assessment Mark for Mathematics Extension 2 is 84, and their Examination Mark is 80. Therefore, their HSC Mark is
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/png.latex?\bg_white%20\left(\frac{84+80}{2}\right)=82&hash=abbf7918733ee87207df356e55ee038d$
. The HSC Mark is the mark that will be used to determine a student's ATAR.
Now that we understand the meaning of each term, let's move on to how the Examination Mark and the Assessment Mark marks are determined. We will then explore the process of scaling.

Examination Mark - Alignment:

When a student completes an HSC exam, their paper is then marked. The original mark that is recorded on that paper with no adjustments of any kind is called a raw mark. NESA does not inform students of their raw marks. However, should you wish to know your raw marks, you can request them from NESA:

Raw marks are aligned, meaning that they are modified/adjusted. This modification/adjustment results in an aligned mark. NESA informs students of their aligned marks as their Examination Marks. Most of the time, this works in the favour of students, as it can result in favourable Examination Marks. It is important to note that your own Examination Mark in a particular subject is based on your performance. It is not affected by factors such as your rank relative to your cohort or your school rank. Let's take a look at an example involving 2020 raw mark and aligned mark data for English Advanced:

View attachment 33918

Alignment data for several subjects can be accessed using https://rawmarks.info/

The Examination Mark contributes 50% of a student's HSC mark for a particular subject.

Assessment Mark - Moderation:

While different schools set assessment tasks/exams that are based on the same syllabus, the way in which those tasks are designed, and the way they are marked may be different. The moderation process adjusts students' Assessment Marks so that they can be fairly compared across the state. This adjustment is done using 2 elements:
• a student's rank relative to their cohort in a particular subject
• The Examination Marks achieved by the student's cohort in a particular subject.
Examination Marks are the only component that would allow NESA to achieve this fairness because the only task that all students complete that is exactly the same and is marked in exactly the same way is the HSC exam.

Essentially, the highest Assessment Mark is adjusted to equal the highest Examination Mark of any student in a school cohort. Similarly, the lowest Assessment Mark is adjusted to equal the lowest Examination Mark of any student in a school cohort. In the case of other ranks, the Assessment Mark will not equal its equivalent Examination Mark. However, it will be similar. Consider the following example from NESA:

As you can see, the highest Assessment Mark was adjusted to equal the highest Examination Mark (92). The lowest Assessment Mark was also adjusted to equal the lowest Examination Mark (50). However, the Assessment Mark for the student ranked third (74) is not identical to the third-highest Examination Mark (72), although it is similar.

If a school submits assessment marks with two (or more) students ranked first, then the top moderated assessment mark will equal the average of the two (or more) highest exam marks for the school group. This also applies if students tie on the bottom assessment mark.

What all of this suggests is that ranking as highly as possible relative to your cohort is the best way of maximising your Assessment Mark in a particular subject, which can only be achieved through favourable performance in your school-based assessment tasks/exams.

The Assessment Mark contributes 50% of a student's HSC mark in a particular subject.

The scaling process:

It is a common occurrence to refer to alignment and its effect as scaling. Alignment (which was explained above) and scaling should not be confused as they mean different things.

To avoid complicating matters, scaling is the process of taking HSC marks and standardising them across different subjects. Scaling is performed by UAC and allows results in different subjects to be compared with one another so as not to disadvantage students based on their subject selections or school system. Scaling works by standardising HSC marks so students who complete different courses can be ranked against each other for the purposes of creating an ATAR. As you may already know, moderation and alignment are performed by NESA, and this is done prior to UAC's scaling process, which makes sense as HSC marks need to first be determined before UAC can use them to determine students' ATAR's.

I hope this helps!
the best explanation I've ever seen! thank u!

#### kevindebruyne

##### Member
Let's begin by discussing a student's HSC results (those they receive as part of an email from NESA). We will first consider NESA's terminology. To do so, consider the following example:

There are 3 important terms that are relevant to our discussion, each of which must be understood correctly, so that the student fully understands their results once they receive them:
• The Examination Mark refers to a student's external mark (i.e. your mark in the HSC exam for each respective subject). This mark is subject to alignment.
• The Assessment Mark/Grade refers to a student's internal mark. This mark is subject to the moderation process.
• The HSC Mark is the student's final mark for a particular subject. This mark is the average of the student's Assessment Mark and Examination Mark. In this example, the student's Assessment Mark for Mathematics Extension 2 is 84, and their Examination Mark is 80. Therefore, their HSC Mark is
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/png.latex?\bg_white%20\left(\frac{84+80}{2}\right)=82&hash=abbf7918733ee87207df356e55ee038d$
. The HSC Mark is the mark that will be used to determine a student's ATAR.
Now that we understand the meaning of each term, let's move on to how the Examination Mark and the Assessment Mark marks are determined. We will then explore the process of scaling.

Examination Mark - Alignment:

When a student completes an HSC exam, their paper is then marked. The original mark that is recorded on that paper with no adjustments of any kind is called a raw mark. NESA does not inform students of their raw marks. However, should you wish to know your raw marks, you can request them from NESA:

Raw marks are aligned, meaning that they are modified/adjusted. This modification/adjustment results in an aligned mark. NESA informs students of their aligned marks as their Examination Marks. Most of the time, this works in the favour of students, as it can result in favourable Examination Marks. It is important to note that your own Examination Mark in a particular subject is based on your performance. It is not affected by factors such as your rank relative to your cohort or your school rank. Let's take a look at an example involving 2020 raw mark and aligned mark data for English Advanced:

View attachment 33918

Alignment data for several subjects can be accessed using https://rawmarks.info/

The Examination Mark contributes 50% of a student's HSC mark for a particular subject.

Assessment Mark - Moderation:

While different schools set assessment tasks/exams that are based on the same syllabus, the way in which those tasks are designed, and the way they are marked may be different. The moderation process adjusts students' Assessment Marks so that they can be fairly compared across the state. This adjustment is done using 2 elements:
• a student's rank relative to their cohort in a particular subject
• The Examination Marks achieved by the student's cohort in a particular subject.
Examination Marks are the only component that would allow NESA to achieve this fairness because the only task that all students complete that is exactly the same and is marked in exactly the same way is the HSC exam.

Essentially, the highest Assessment Mark is adjusted to equal the highest Examination Mark of any student in a school cohort. Similarly, the lowest Assessment Mark is adjusted to equal the lowest Examination Mark of any student in a school cohort. In the case of other ranks, the Assessment Mark will not equal its equivalent Examination Mark. However, it will be similar. Consider the following example from NESA:

As you can see, the highest Assessment Mark was adjusted to equal the highest Examination Mark (92). The lowest Assessment Mark was also adjusted to equal the lowest Examination Mark (50). However, the Assessment Mark for the student ranked third (74) is not identical to the third-highest Examination Mark (72), although it is similar.

If a school submits assessment marks with two (or more) students ranked first, then the top moderated assessment mark will equal the average of the two (or more) highest exam marks for the school group. This also applies if students tie on the bottom assessment mark.

What all of this suggests is that ranking as highly as possible relative to your cohort is the best way of maximising your Assessment Mark in a particular subject, which can only be achieved through favourable performance in your school-based assessment tasks/exams.

The Assessment Mark contributes 50% of a student's HSC mark in a particular subject.

The scaling process:

It is a common occurrence to refer to alignment and its effect as scaling. Alignment (which was explained above) and scaling should not be confused as they mean different things.

To avoid complicating matters, scaling is the process of taking HSC marks and standardising them across different subjects. Scaling is performed by UAC and allows results in different subjects to be compared with one another so as not to disadvantage students based on their subject selections or school system. Scaling works by standardising HSC marks so students who complete different courses can be ranked against each other for the purposes of creating an ATAR. As you may already know, moderation and alignment are performed by NESA, and this is done prior to UAC's scaling process, which makes sense as HSC marks need to first be determined before UAC can use them to determine students' ATAR's.

I hope this helps!
I've always wondered, why do some of the raw marks on https://rawmarks.info/ have decimals (like 94.5)? They don't do half marks do they?

#### Trebla

I've always wondered, why do some of the raw marks on https://rawmarks.info/ have decimals (like 94.5)? They don't do half marks do they?
They're marks out of 100. If the exam itself is not out of 100 (e.g. out of 70) then you can get marks with decimal places.

#### Trebla

I also strongly encourage people to look at the flowchart in this thread to get a basic understanding of the process

#### Trebla

View attachment 33926
That is because of the way linear interpolation works.

As a simple illustrative example, say the band 6 cut off was 80/100, then
- A raw mark of 80.0 aligns to 90.0
- A raw mark of 81.0 aligns to 90.5
- A raw mark of 82.0 aligns to 91.0
.
.
.
- A raw mark of 99.0 aligns to 99.5
- A raw mark of 100.0 aligns to 100.0

What is shown in your HSC record of achievement is the rounded aligned mark. What that means is that if two students say both got 91 as their exam mark, they either:
- Both got 81.0 raw
- Both got 82.0 raw
- One of them got 81.0 raw and the other got 82.0 raw (and vice versa)

#### kevindebruyne

##### Member
That is because of the way linear interpolation works.

As a simple illustrative example, say the band 6 cut off was 80/100, then
- A raw mark of 80.0 aligns to 90.0
- A raw mark of 81.0 aligns to 90.5
- A raw mark of 82.0 aligns to 91.0
.
.
.
- A raw mark of 99.0 aligns to 99.5
- A raw mark of 100.0 aligns to 100.0

What is shown in your HSC record of achievement is the rounded aligned mark. What that means is that if two students say both got 91 as their exam mark, they either:
- Both got 81.0 raw
- Both got 82.0 raw
- One of them got 81.0 raw and the other got 82.0 raw (and vice versa)
Thank you! Makes sense now.