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Australian Politics (1 Viewer)

Lentern

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I'd like to hear from those who mocked Costello for not nominating for the leadership? Turnbull whilst holding on to a majority is suffering so much dissent over the ETS that his leadership is untenable while his predecessor was mercilessly voted out of the leadership for trying to block virtually the same bill. What would these Costello haters have had him done? Order the senators to abstain perhaps?
 

SylviaB

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Does the Liberal party not realise that climate change is the single biggest issue facing the human race?
lol yeah and it's because of this that Al Gore needs to photoshop ice away from the arctic and more hurricanes onto the earth to prove JUST HOW REAL IT IS.


I think Malcomn Turnbull is brilliant as well; however too rich and arrogant to ever be PM.
-Being arrogant is better than being a shameless populist and sycophant

-Um, do you have any idea how wealthy Kevin Rudd's wife is??
 

Nebuchanezzar

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The following members of the Turnbull Ministry have resigned or are about to resign.

Tony Abbott
Nick Minchin
Eric Abetz
Bob Baldwin
Sophie Mirabella
Tony Smith
Stephen Parry
Michael Johnson
Mitch Fifield
Mathias Cormann
Brett Mason
Shit, thanks for the update Rafy. This is going to make a big difference in Australian politics! No idea what I'll do without Fifield and Mason playing a part in the show!

:jaw::jaw::jaw::jaw::jaw::jaw::jaw::jaw:
 

Iron

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If Abbott gets it, he better do some p good explaining about what he'd do about climate change. I am keen to support such a mad Catholic, but under these circumstances he hardly seems inspiring...
 

spiny norman

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I'd like to hear from those who mocked Costello for not nominating for the leadership? Turnbull whilst holding on to a majority is suffering so much dissent over the ETS that his leadership is untenable while his predecessor was mercilessly voted out of the leadership for trying to block virtually the same bill. What would these Costello haters have had him done? Order the senators to abstain perhaps?
Costello would've been in a far better position to unite the party than any of those who've followed Howard. He would've been seen as Howard's heir, and would have been far more untouchable than Nelson or Turnbull (or Abbott or Hockey will be). Costello's decision to not take on the leadership after the election loss will keep the Liberals unwinnable for at least the next two elections afterwards.

The man's selfishness and lack of testicular fortitude (in both refusing to challenge Howard through to refusing to succeed him when the position was due to be his) has damned the party he claims to be a servant to to opposition for a long time.
 

Lentern

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Costello would've been in a far better position to unite the party than any of those who've followed Howard. He would've been seen as Howard's heir, and would have been far more untouchable than Nelson or Turnbull (or Abbott or Hockey will be). Costello's decision to not take on the leadership after the election loss will keep the Liberals unwinnable for at least the next two elections afterwards.

The man's selfishness and lack of testicular fortitude (in both refusing to challenge Howard through to refusing to succeed him when the position was due to be his) has damned the party he claims to be a servant to to opposition for a long time.
Nobody could possibly be dumb enough to believe that nonsense.

If Abbott gets it, he better do some p good explaining about what he'd do about climate change. I am keen to support such a mad Catholic, but under these circumstances he hardly seems inspiring...

Following the election loss Abbott, Turnbull and Nelson nominated for the leadership. Shortly afterwards Abbott pulled out because he didn't have the numbers. Of course you know all this the question is why do you think such a strong supporter of the Howard legacy and such a strong parliamentary performer did not have the numbers of the other two?
 
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SMH says Hockey will challenge, and that Abbott will not.


Channel Ten says Abbott will challenge.


What is haapppeeennnniingg :confused::confused::confused:
 

Lentern

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SMH says Hockey will challenge, and that Abbott will not.


Channel Ten says Abbott will challenge.


What is haapppeeennnniingg :confused::confused::confused:
PBL v Fairfax? Better not be Hockey, I hedged my bets so pretty much whoever leads them to the next election EXCEPT Hockey ends up winning me money.
 

Nebuchanezzar

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DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY CARE!?!?!

This is like the media telling us what to care about. I sure as fuck don't care about who leads the Liberal party to annihilation for the next two elections.

Glurururbrbrbh
 

Rafy

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Senate just adjourned until Monday. The ETS is surely dead in this parliament.

Government calls DD election. Coalition will be decimated. Government gets a massive mandate from the people to introduce an ETS. Greens hold balance of power in new Senate. ALP-Greens ETS enacted. Liberal Party left in ruins.

Fuck. These rebels are clueless idiots.
 

Lentern

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Senate just adjourned until Monday. The ETS is surely dead in this parliament.

Government calls DD election. Coalition will be decimated. Government gets a massive mandate from the people to introduce an ETS. Greens hold balance of power in new Senate. ALP-Greens ETS enacted. Liberal Party left in ruins.

Fuck. These rebels are clueless idiots.
I would assume there are six senators that would be willing to accept Turnbull's decision which to my knowlege is what the government needs. However It will be a spectacularly noble thing for Turnbull to get the bill passed now so that he might get knifed a week later and some bright eyed new leader could go forth with the bill having been passed. I wonder if Turnbull would hang around like Howard and Peacock did after being knifed. Presumably Abbott/Andrews/Dutton/ would get beaten pretty heavily at a general election and there would be a number of progressive libs more than willing to launch a post election coup. Nobody seems interested in hanging around for anything these days though. Antony Green reckons that Wentworth will fall in a general election if Turnbull quits and someone like Abbott leads the liberals at the next election. Particularly if Peter King ran as an independent.
 

Nebuchanezzar

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I would assume there are six senators that would be willing to accept Turnbull's decision which to my knowlege is what the government needs. However It will be a spectacularly noble thing for Turnbull to get the bill passed now so that he might get knifed a week later and some bright eyed new leader could go forth with the bill having been passed. I wonder if Turnbull would hang around like Howard and Peacock did after being knifed. Presumably Abbott/Andrews/Dutton/ would get beaten pretty heavily at a general election and there would be a number of progressive libs more than willing to launch a post election coup. Nobody seems interested in hanging around for anything these days though. Antony Green reckons that Wentworth will fall in a general election if Turnbull quits and someone like Abbott leads the liberals at the next election. Particularly if Peter King ran as an independent.
'
The Battle of Wentworth
Liberal Liberals led into battle by General Malcolm Turnbull
:pirate:
 
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I can't believe the stupidity of the rebels. Ian Macfarlane is a well known climate change skeptic and even he realizes that this bill needs to be passed or his party will be annilated in a DD.
 

jb_nc

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Wonderin' 'bout Wentworth.
 

Lentern

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god i hope so, so that ultra right-wingers such as alan jones and ray hadley are left clinging to no political party and are then the minority!


do you know when a DD will be called? how does it work?
It's pretty simple in this case if the senate votes down the ETS then Rudd is entitled to request that the governor general dissolve both houses of parliament. That is why the rebels new strategy is too stop the vote.
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

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Senate just adjourned until Monday. The ETS is surely dead in this parliament.

Government calls DD election. Coalition will be decimated. Government gets a massive mandate from the people to introduce an ETS. Greens hold balance of power in new Senate. ALP-Greens ETS enacted. Liberal Party left in ruins.

Fuck. These rebels are clueless idiots.
Wow. This is actually going to happen. The Coalition is batshit insane. What is happening?

We'll see a Senate with something like 10+ Greens, Greens holding the balance of power by themselves, and plenty of Greens House of Reps seats for the first time in history (I'd say 3 to 7). Labour will increase their numbers, too.

A DD is bad news for the Liberals, for Family First, and for the Nationals, no two ways about it. Yet if they nuke the ETS, a DD is exactly what will happen.

For once I feel sorry for Turnbull, too. I'm pretty sure in his heart he wants to pass this legislation because he wants to do the right thing for the humanity, not his party. Oh well, he'll go down a martyr and get a cushy job in private industry somewhere.
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

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Lentern: so if it goes down to a DD isn't is heaps bad for the rebels considering the general public want an ETS? its only a small minority of skeptics that would want to vote for them? It will only be worse for the skeptics if it goes down to a DD right?
Yes and no. A DD would purge the moderates from the Coalition, but not the hard-right deniers.

Is Fielding a family first member? Or is he an independent? He could loose his seat right?
He will lose his seat. The only reason he was elected was because Labour accidentally got him in through their preferences. They weren't very pleased with the result. He'll probably be replaced with a Green since I doubt Labour is going to preference him again.

He's Family First, for reference.

Xenophon is an independent, but Xenophon pulls enough votes to elect himself 2 or 3 times over.
 

Rafy

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do you know when a DD will be called? how does it work?
Section 57 of the Constitution:

If the House of Representatives passes any proposed law, and the Senate rejects or fails to pass it, or passes it with amendments to which the House of Representatives will not agree, and if after an interval of three months the House of Representatives, in the same or the next session, again passes the proposed law with or without any amendments which have been made, suggested, or agreed to by the Senate, and the Senate rejects or fails to pass it, or passes it with amendments to which the House of Representatives will not agree, the Governor-General may dissolve the Senate and the House of Representatives simultaneously.
1. If the Senate votes to reject the bills, then it's fairly clear cut. The government has a double dissolution trigger that it can use at anytime up until August 11, 2010.

2. The 'rebels' have indicated however that they wish to refer the bills to a senate select committee for further deliberation. They have additionally attempted to filibuster the bills while in committee in order to prevent a vote. Section 57 allows the Governor-General to call a DD election where the Senate 'fails to pass' a bill. If the government advises the G-G to call an election in such circumstances, it would be up to her to satisfy herself that the requirements of the section have been satisfied. I would be of the opinion that referring the bills to committee would create grounds for a DD election. So what does 'fail to pass' mean?

In 1951, following the second passage of the Commonwealth Bank Bill through the House, the Senate, after second reading debate extending over several days, referred it to a select committee. This was said by Prime Minister Menzies to constitute “failure to pass”, a phrase which encompassed “delay in passing the bill” or “such a delaying intention as would amount to an expression of unwillingness to pass it”. The Attorney-General, Senator J.A. Spicer, wrote that the phrase, “failure to pass”, was intended to deal with procrastination. Professor K.H. Bailey, the Solicitor-General, considered, inter alia, that “adoption of Parliamentary procedures for the purpose of avoiding the formal registering of the Senate’s clear disagreement with a bill may constitute a ‘failure to pass’ it within the meaning of the section”.

The words “fail to pass” in the section are designed to preclude the Senate, upon being proffered a bill with an opportunity to pass it with or without amendments or to reject it, from declining to take either course, and instead deciding to procrastinate.

It will be material to know what opportunities the Government has given for proceeding with the bill, and what steps the Senate has taken to delay or defer consideration. There are many ways in which the passage of a bill may be prevented or delayed: e.g.

  1. It may be ordered to be read (say) this day six months.
  2. It may be referred to a Select Committee.
  3. The debate may be repeatedly adjourned.
  4. The bill may be ‘filibustered’ by unreasonably long discussion, in the House or in Committee.
 

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